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classical snobbery?

>>Perhaps the key difference between you and I is that I can go to a live concert, as I do often. Then, I can go home and expect a reasonable facsimile of that sound<<

Hmmm, lets see, I've attended this year alone, Van Halen, Roger Waters, Prince, (& musical plays such as The Lion King) and a slew of much smaller venue acts (mostly blues based or jazz based musicians). My bucket list, this year alone, includes Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen.

Look, I don't want to turn this into some silly competition, but trust me, my exposure to live music, acoustic or not, and how it gets reproduced within my system, should not be your concern.

>>Rock just does not have that opportunity in abundance. I honestly do not know what rock listeners can use as a standard for judging their sound systems. But, it surely is not the sound of live acoustic music.<<

Well, Rock is generally an amplified experience (although not always), but then again ... EVERY TYPE OF MUSIC PLAYED BACK ON ANY AUDIO SYSTEM is amplified!

Therefore ... criteria is somewhat IDENTICAL!!!

Look, although my equipment choices (and unique refinement) has much to with my luv for reproducing R&R, it's hardly reflective of what my system can accomplish on complete musical whole. In fact, just the opposite is true, my system includes superb frequency extension & wide bandwidth (esp on top), is designed to include a truly low noise floor (rare in most systems, regardless of cost), and it can parlay a very wide dynamic contrast without distress at any particular frequency over it's entire bandwidth (a major problem for most systems regardless of cost), while remaining quite tight, controlled & transparent. It does not introduce compression (like most systems do) and remains harmonically consistent even during very difficult passages in which the vast majority of systems smear, morph and/or complicate instrumental impact.

Trust me, because it does R&R quite well, it does not mean it can't do justice to other forms of music. Oh contrare ...

Some history, I grew up with a step brother who was an acoustic guitar phenom. He was so well versed and naturally talented, that he was frequently asked to play at surrounding venues & school concerts. I grew up with him practicing that damn guitar nearly every night. Trust me, I know what LIVE 6 or 12 string acoustic guitar sounds like, with any system. Obviously I used that experience & criteria (along with others) to build and refine my specific system.

So lets not get too caught up in format choices based ONLY on musical genre. That said, I will admit that if I was only into classical, I'd definitely be looking into SACD, so I can totally understand that requirement to a point.

>>I honestly do not know what rock listeners can use as a standard for judging their sound systems.<<

I isolated the above statement again, only because it's truly ignorant of ALL MUSICAL requirements. I won't go into the specifics (they are VERY obvious) but believe it or not, R&R is actually a true form of music. Yes, it has musical requirements related to REAL INSTRUMENTS, w/real instrumental impact, w/the ability to separate real instruments within a 3 dimensional field, keeping them separate from each other even during difficult passages, much like the requirements of other types of music and sound systems. In fact, one could say that R&R has some unique requirements all it's own.

>>Sorry, if you have had a bad experience with SACD players, especially in comparison to CD. While some claim to hear no difference, you are the first to claim that CD sounds consistently better than SACD.<<

What?

I'm certainly not the "first" and/or last!!!

And I've never said that CD sounds consistently better than SACD. In fact, I've often stated the superiority of SACD is obvious with well recorded DSD material (believe it or not, the best sounding CDs are also related conversion, or lack of). But as I've always stated, SACD does not win by simple default (which many SACD fanatics consistently imply, much like some MC fanatics here). SACD requires the EXACT same criteria that CD or LP requires in order to sound good, and it is just as dependent on hardware as any format.

As for my "bad" experience ... certainly not ... it was simply just a matter of comparing equipment and software ... in which most (not all) SACD players I've owned or auditioned came a consistent 3rd to my current sources. Far more educational than bad.

>>The higher residual background noise of LP is unmistakeable to everyone I know in any system, including some quite superlative ones. I am at a loss to understand why your comparative listening has failed to reveal it. Certainly, measured technical specs confirm it to be there.<<

Perhaps you're at a loss, simply because you've never heard otherwise. Until you've had the luxury of hearing a highly refined vinyl based system with a truly superb noise floor, you'll most likely never understand. And I don't expect you to understand either, especially with the amount of myths you've implied about vinyl in this thread. Even though you've claimed to have heard such a beast, well, obviously ...

>>The addition of a discrete center channel plus surrounds is definitely capable of phantom imaging the sound much more into the room toward the listener vs. stereo. The frontal depth of image is enhanced quite naturally, as a result. But, it needs proper source material to be able to hear it. Mch classical recordings do just that, but I do not think there is much rock material that exhibits the same effect.<<

A fine recording, w/any music, played back on my system not only has the ability to make my two speakers disappear, it makes my back wall disappear ... recreating a 3D type soundstage that should be reminiscent of the recorded venue. Certainly, it does not require additional channels to do what it routinely has accomplished - for years.

>>I do not know anyone else in my circle of friends, even rock listeners, who agrees with you. But, then we have no idea which recordings you are talking about. It certainly is unlikely to be classical recordings.<<

How do you know that I don't use classical?

Why are you making such an assumption, simply because your bias towards those who luv R&R?

The fact is, I have a specific set of music that I use for evaluation, and classical (Reference Recordings HDCD mostly) is included.

Again, lets not pretend that because I luv R&R, I don't understand the requirements of other types of music, or live acoustic instruments in general.

Your reply is choke full of simplistic generalizations - which are dismissive & ignorant of my (or anyone's) musical based experiences. Contrary to what you "think", classical lovers are certainly not the only audiophiles who understand instruments & musical reproduction.

tb1


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