I originally posted this in the general section not knowing that the board had been sub-divided:

Well, a h/w engineer and I seem to have successfully installed the phono preamp into my Anthem Int-1, so now it's time to take the next step and get a turntable. So Jack, I'd like to continue the turntable discussion started in AR and also ask some vinyl related questions.

Jack, you and I will probably be very similar in that I will listen to a 90/10 cd to vinyl ratio, so getting reasonable sound without breaking the bank is a must. Please comment on the 3 possibilities below and which you think makes the most sense to get:

1. A friend has an old Kenwood KD-500/Grace TR707 tonearm combo that hasn't been used for years. He's willing to give it to me so the price is right.
However, I know that most analog people in this forum are not too impressed with this equipment. I can afford the next possibility without much pain.

2. Get the Music Hall with mat. I'd have to hold off on a new cartridge for a few months, but no big deal. Also, there is no local dealer for Music Hall. Can somebody suggest a good mail order dealer, preferably not in California so I don't have to pay sales tax? Unfortunately, Galen Carol doesn't seem to carry
Music Hall.

3. Check the local Rega dealer for a demo Planar 2 or 3 at a good price. In December, he had a Planar 3 with cartridge for $450 but I couldn't justify it at the time. I won't be able to listen to both, so tell me how much, if any, better you think the Rega's would be than the Music Hall. If I can swing it, should I seriously consider a new unit from Galen?

The additional questions have to do with record and stylus care. I'd love to get a VPI or Nitty Gritty type record cleaner, but it's out of the question due tobudgetary restraints. What do you use? Is there something inexpensive which you use? I don't believe any local dealers have these cleaners either.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

-ken

 Thanks - ken m 14:47:52 3/04/99 (1)
 Learned new lesson. Don't hit reload when posting (nt) - ken m 14:49:37 3/04/99 (0)
 Thanks - ken m 14:47:45 3/04/99 (0)

...

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 Thanks - ken m 14:47:52 3/04/99 (1)
 Learned new lesson. Don't hit reload when posting (nt) - ken m 14:49:37 3/04/99 (0)
 Thanks - ken m 14:47:45 3/04/99 (0)
 Re: ? for jack g and others, repost from general - Thorsten 13:22:22 3/03/99 (6)
 Re: ? for jack g and others, repost from general - Werner 23:46:26 3/03/99 (0)
 more questions - ken m 16:15:25 3/03/99 (4)
 Re: more questions - Thorsten 06:41:52 3/04/99 (3)
 ah-ha! finally someone... - gnat 02:07:21 3/05/99 (2)
 Re: ah-ha! finally someone... - Thorsten 03:47:22 3/08/99 (1)
 thanx, Thorsten - gnat 22:27:55 3/08/99 (0)
 Re: ? for jack g and others, repost from general - Jack G 04:59:11 3/03/99 (0)
 Re: ? for jack g and others, repost from general - Werner 23:28:56 3/02/99 (0)
 See my comment in General Sect. of your Post - J.P. 18:29:13 3/02/99 (0)
 Re: ? for jack g and others, repost from general - Oakroot 18:15:27 3/02/99 (3)
 My system - ken m 18:31:03 3/02/99 (2)
 Re: My system - Oakroot 23:00:46 3/02/99 (0)
 Re: My system - J.P. 20:58:29 3/02/99 (0)

The Music Hall is a nice little table - but the cartridge should be replaced as soon as possible - it severly limits the sonic quality of the setup. The music hall is a suspended table (better than the Rega table) but only has an adaquate arm (not nearly in the league with the RB-300 or 250 Rega arms). It would be a good, inexpensive setup to have if you decided not to upgrade nay further.

If there is any chance at all you will upgrade in the future - then get a used Planar 3 with the RB-300 arm (the arm is one of the very best performace for the dollar products in the audio marketplace). You can keep the arm and upgrade the dec later on - thereby saving big dollars. Price on a good used machine could run $450 to $550 depending on if a good cartridge is included.

One more point - we don't know what the rest of your system so just be sure that it has the resolving power to give you the improvements in performance that you spend your money on.

Best of luck - when you find out how wonderful the world of vinyl is, you may find your CD/LP ration changing. :-)

Thanks for you response. My current system is:

Anthem Int-1
Rotel RCD-965BX cdp *
Joseph Audio RM7si Signature speakers
Michael Green Basik stands (lead-filled)
Kimber PBJ interconnect
Kimber 4TC speaker wires

I have several lp's which I haven't played for years which I've gotten an urge to hear:

M+K Realtime "For Duke" Bill Berry and the Ellington All-stars
"Going Home" L.A. Four (direct to disk)
"Heart" Heart (Mobile Fidelity directo to disk I think)
Frederick Fennell - can't remember title but wind pieces

* I have a broken Ultech UCD-100. They will swap it as soon as they have new units (if they ever have new units). I live in Santa Barbara which was just a little too far to try to invite myself to your recent cdp bakeoff. After the UCD-100 is swapped, maybe we can arrange something.

-ken

1)accept your friend's kind offer to take the his old turntable off his hands for him and get a decent cartridge (nothing over $150). Save your money a bit longer and look toward a used Planar 3 as an upgrade. If down the road you get into vinyl playback then you can keep the arm and lose almost no money in getting a better deck.

2)go out and get an analog rig worthy of the rest of your system, probably at about $1000 to $1200 - because as soon as you hear really good analog playback you'll be searching the used bins in the record stores quite frequently!

Have fun - enjoy the hunt.

Co-reviewer at TNT Thorsten Loesch once had an old
Kenwood he deemed higher than the Rega. Maybe you should
talk to him for some details.

- Visions in Audio http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/4133
- TNT Audio Magazine http://www.tnt-audio.com/int.html

• TNT Audio Magazine

: 1. A friend has an old Kenwood KD-500/Grace TR707 tonearm combo that hasn't been used for years.

Get it immediatly. I had a KD-500 untill recently. Tricked out with Record Clamp, Glass platter-mat and on a DIY Air-suspension it was almost as good as the Oracle Delphi that replaced it. But the Oracle is prettier....

Then stick a higher mass tonearm on the Kenwood Table. The Origin Live modified Rega RB-250 would be a killer and give you a big choice of Cartridges.

Oh, forgot. For ultimate power the Kenwood Table from a recharable lead Acid Battery....

: 2. Get the Music Hall with mat.

Don't.

: 3. Check the local Rega dealer for a demo Planar 2 or 3 at a good price.

Okay. The good old Rega. No chance of as much as a squeak against the Kenwood. Good arm. Shame about the Table.

I purchased the Kenwood (2nd Hand - was an exchange deal actually) after trying at home the Kenwood, a Rega Planar 3 with RB-300 Tonearm and a Systemdeck IIX with Rega Arm (Systemdek si the poor man's Linn LP-12).

The Kenwood even with original Kenwood S-Shaped low mass arm killed any of the other dead.

Anyway, my 0.02 Pound form old blighty.

Later Thorsten

Thanks for the response. You are the only person who seems to like the Kenwood table. Everybody seems to be in agreement about the Grace tonearm.
In the US, the KD500 came without an arm and the Grace was the trick deal (circa 1978). I always thought they looked pretty good, though not very modern.

Is the Origin/RB250 available in the US? About how much are we talking about. Does it have VTA adjustment? I guess I really want to know what the mod's are. Also, do you think that given a new tonearm, that the Grado line of cartridges would work without the hum?

I'm not sure that I've correctly translated "No chance of as much as a squeak against the Kenwood" into American. :-) Does this mean that you like the Kenwood better than the Planar 3?

Regards,

-ken

W

> Thanks for the response. You are the only person who seems to like the
> Kenwood table.

I wouldn't say that. Baskom H. King, a totally switched on Dude and my WAY FAVOURITE Reviewer for "AUDIO" (who let Corey Greenberg in) owns one too. He has a Infinity "Black Widow" Arm on ot and a Cartridge (Win-Labs) that me dizzy when I think of the Price.... I believe he "traded up" from a Well Tempered Turntable to the Kenwood....

Hey this cool dude even owns Lowther Acoustas and likes Single-Ended Amp's (like me).

> Everybody seems to be in agreement about the Grace tonearm. In the US,
> the KD500 came without an arm and the Grace was the trick deal (circa
> 1978). I always thought they looked pretty good, though not very modern.

The Grace IS a very good Arm for it's class. It just happens to be one of the relative lightweight Arms designed in the 70's to track a Grado or Shure at 1gm Tracking force. If you fit one of these Cartridges (which I find soft in the bottom, even softer higher up but quite nice in the Midrange), the Grace will do you a great Service.

It only will not work very well with Modern MM Cartridges like the Goldring 1000 Series (and related Roksan, Audio-Note and Reson Cartridges), which BTW smoke a lot of entry level High Output MC Cartridges. It also will not work very well with modern (and classic) Moving Coil Cartridges.

If you plan on using a Grado, keep the Grace Arm.

> Is the Origin/RB250 available in the US?

It is a OEM Rega Arm modified by a small UK Company who sell direct. I reviewed the Arm for the TNT-Audio On-Line Mag (and got so carried away THAT I ACTUALLY PAID FOR IT!).

> About how much are we talking about. Does it have VTA adjustment?

The full kit with all possible mod's (internal [silver] and external [copper] re-wiring, structural modifications and VTA Adjuster [which should work on the Kenwood I think]) will cost about $ 650.00 if you do not have a Rega Arm you can send of.

> I guess I really want to know what the mod's are.

Have a read here:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/olrb250_e.html

> Also, do you think that given a new tonearm, that the Grado line of
> cartridges would work without the hum?

The Hum with Grados comes from the on-board Mains-Transformer of the Kenwood Table. Grado's have no shielding. They hum on almost any table I can think of having tried them on....

You could remove the Transformer form the Turntable into a "Lump on a Cable" Case you can buy from Mouser or Digi-Key.

> I'm not sure that I've correctly translated "No chance of as much as a
> squeak against the Kenwood" into American. :-) Does this mean that you
> like the Kenwood better than the Planar 3?

Indeed. I liked the Kenwood better by as much, let's say the distance between here and the Mars. It's not just a BIT better. It's a different Class.

It has all the things Rega Tables lack - bass weight and slam, soundstaging, natural uncoloured sound, speed-stability....

As said, I think once I had properly tweaked up the Kenwood Table and fitted an Sumiko OEM Arm (similar to the current Audio-Quest ones) switching to an Oracle Delphi (Stereophool Class A rated) gave only VERY MINOR improvements in sound - I just fell in love with the looks and had the cash spaer....

Later Thorsten

Now I have to drive to Tucson to get the Kenwood. Any suggestions about shipping (I'm in Santa Barbara, CA)? The original box is long gone.

-ken

Now I have to drive to Tucson to get the Kenwood. Any suggestions about shipping (I'm in Santa Barbara, CA)? The original box is long gone.

-ken

Hi, Thorsten

I have Project 4 cartridge. Salesguy
told me it's Goldring 1006, correct?
They look *very* alike.

He also said I can replace it's stylus
with one of 1042, correct?

If so, I have two upgrade options:
- old cartridge with 1042 stylus (~$130)
- new 1042 cartridge (~$220)

Which one would you prefer? I can't do
in-home trial, so good advice is welcome.

Money aren't big deal, but... $90... it's
3 new LPs... or 30-50 used. :-)

Rest of setup is AN TT1 and RB300.

TIA,
regards, gnat

> ...familiar with Goldring 1000 series!

Yup, sure am.

> I have Project 4 cartridge. Salesguy
> told me it's Goldring 1006, correct?
> They look *very* alike.

Probably - here in the UK you don't find the Project Cartridges, because the Project Distributor is also Distributor for Orthophon....

> He also said I can replace it's stylus
> with one of 1042, correct?

Should work.

> If so, I have two upgrade options:

Three....

> - old cartridge with 1042 stylus (~$130)
> - new 1042 cartridge (~$220)
> Which one would you prefer?

If you can stratch this far, consider the Reson Reca - it is a "hotrod" Version of the 1042 and a lot better. The stylus is however non-compatible.... The Reson Reca will set you back about $ 300....

Otherwise get the new stylus....

> Rest of setup is AN TT1 and RB300.

Get your Rega-Arm modified by Origin Live.... I belive AN has already re-wired it (if it's an AN RB-300 Arm), so all that is left is the structural Mod....

Here a few bits to read:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/olrb250_e.html

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/resone.html

Later Thorsten

It's just the info I was looking for!

Reca... I've read your review. Tempting... veeeeery
tempting... being listener-not-reviewer :-) I should
consider it - "good enough" CAN stop me, indeed.

BTW, my arm is simple Rega, not AN - wiring mod is
an upgrade option too. And yes, I know about OL arm
mods, these look promising for me.

regards, gnat