Shit just got real...

Ah, a lawsuit. The American Way. I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night ;) but I don't see this working. If the plaintiffs prove their case, wouldn't their actual damages amount to the money spent on the LPs they bought? Peanuts. Punitive damages? What grave emotional distress did the plaintiffs suffer? Anyway, lots of money will get wasted on attorneys' fees and court time. As Shakespeare wrote, "much ado about nothing."

We'll all get a $5 coupon to use on a $125 digital LP.., posted on August 8, 2022 at 20:56:45
viridian	...-and the lawyers will get Maseratis and houses on the Cote D'azur.

Hahaha. Sooo true. nt, posted on August 8, 2022 at 21:18:58
alaskahiatt Audiophile Posts: 7508 Joined: December 9, 2000 Contributor Since: November 1, 2005	nt

LOL! (nt), posted on August 8, 2022 at 21:36:18
kuma Audiophile Posts: 10273 Location: IN Joined: July 8, 2001	.

Interstate and INTERNATIONAL sales/shipping too... RICO!...N/T, posted on August 8, 2022 at 22:28:10
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31879 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	j "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

RE: We'll all get a $5 coupon to use on a $125 digital LP.., posted on August 8, 2022 at 22:32:25
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31879 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	Hear MFSL has this lined up to release ESPECIALLY for them. VERY Limited Edition. "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

RE: Shit just got stupid, posted on August 9, 2022 at 01:40:31
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	So what's the goal here? Kick a company while they are down? Not enough they losing sales now we have make them lawyer up and spend needless money on this crap? What is the end goal here? Drive them out of business? That would just be awesome wouldn't it?

+1. Yes, it did. (nt), posted on August 9, 2022 at 04:41:06
reelsmith. Audiophile Posts: 13134 Location: CT Joined: June 7, 2005 Contributor Since: January 19, 2010	. reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

We're a society that loves to litigate., posted on August 9, 2022 at 04:52:40

ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32588
Joined: July 14, 2017

Somebody stubs a toe, he's going to sue.
I don't see how the plaintiffs can win this case. If I were a defense attorney, I'd ask the judge to submit the plaintiffs to double-blind testing. That should be enough to win.
But it probably won't even get that far. More likely, Music Direct will settle, probably as stated below, by issuing a credit to every customer that bought a One-Step.

The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

RE: Aaawww, You had to have bought a One Step?, posted on August 9, 2022 at 05:24:26
B. Scarpia	I just bought a 45RPM MFSL Brothers In Arms. New, sealed but it seems like the prices are down a bit since the controversy surfaced so there's that.

That would be my guess., posted on August 9, 2022 at 05:34:13
ghost of olddude55 Audiophile Posts: 32588 Joined: July 14, 2017	The One Steps are at the center of the controversy. I don't own any. BTW, your Brothers In Arms was digitally mastered in original release. A lot of the One-Steps were, too. That's how silly this whole thing is. The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

RE: Like! nt, posted on August 9, 2022 at 06:31:43
B. Scarpia

RE: Shit just got stupid, posted on August 9, 2022 at 07:24:32
Joe Backer Audiophile Posts: 1033 Joined: July 10, 2011	So stupid. I hate lawyers. Hoping to get a quick settlement. I would never go to court. No way to prove actual damages.

Of course!, posted on August 9, 2022 at 07:55:45
DustyC Audiophile Posts: 963 Joined: November 4, 2000	They are ticked off because they didn't detect the DSD transfer thus suggesting that they don't have "golden ears". "Hey, this sounds digital!" Nope, just crickets and happy customers until the topic came up.

RE: Shit just got real..., posted on August 9, 2022 at 08:39:59
Don Reid Audiophile Posts: 890 Location: Rural NW Georgia Joined: February 2, 2001 Contributor Since: April 1, 2010	Shakespeare also wrote, "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." I dream of an America where a chicken can cross the road without having it's motives questioned.

RE: Shit just got real..., posted on August 9, 2022 at 08:52:39

ecl876
Audiophile

Posts: 3416
Location: Bend, Oregon
Joined: January 14, 2007
Contributor
Since: January 28, 2012

What play is that from? I don't recall that quote.

Never mind. I see it's from Henry VI.

RE: Chicken crossing the road in Henry VI?, posted on August 9, 2022 at 09:15:22
B. Scarpia	I'll have to look.

I don't really care about "they", posted on August 9, 2022 at 10:50:28

Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5590
Joined: November 15, 2016

I've been a fan of MoFi products and Music Direct is my main on-line resource for new released music and audiophile records (the In-Groove is second and my local resource BTW).

Seems to me MoFi put all it's eggs in the One-Step, SuperVinyl, Gain 2, 45-RPM and Original Master Recording basket based instead of telling us the quality of their product was based on digital technology. How the heck I'm I supposed to trust their trademarked processes as being responsible for the goodness of their products when in reality it's been the DSD mastering all along.

Seems to me all along it's been an effort to get us to spend $60 to $125 on a digital product when we could have been spending $35 on a SACD that would actually get up closer to the source. It's funny some MoFi supporters around here are now professing a love for the distortions of vinyl in order to support MoFi's con.

+1., posted on August 9, 2022 at 11:10:17
Mick Wolfe Audiophile Posts: 3365 Location: AZ Joined: October 10, 1999 Contributor Since: September 4, 2000	NT

Could have been worse., posted on August 9, 2022 at 12:20:35
DustyC Audiophile Posts: 963 Joined: November 4, 2000	Using DSD for preserving the master tape makes sense. Redbook? ah, no. If I want that vinyl experience, I'll look for stuff that was issued in the late 50's thru mid 70's. Once digital studio recorders came out I've just looked for the CD. (or SACD)

Not awesome at all. I hate to say it though it would serve them right., posted on August 9, 2022 at 12:38:39

Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5590
Joined: November 15, 2016

You obviously don't see their intentional deception as a means of furthering their trademark processes as symbols of quality in the same way as I do.

In the last year or so I've bought some fantastic reissues from the Pure Pleasure label for $5 less each than a Speakers Corner record. Speakers Corner claims to be all analog (except for one title) and Pure Pleasure uses digital in it's processing. This year pricing is the same.

Really Scott at this point the scam is over and done with - I'm absolutely not interested in another One-Step after the I-Robot shows up if it ever does. That'll give me two in the collection and relegated as expensive historical oddities and collectables as they should be. I'm also unconvinced on SuperVinyl.

I absolutely don't care if DSD mastering is used and in fact it makes a ton of sense. But what MoFi appears to have been doing sucks poop. Ok? F them.

Irreparable Audiophile Psychological Damage, posted on August 9, 2022 at 12:55:12
jedrider Audiophile Posts: 15168 Location: No. California Joined: December 26, 2003	Hope they lose everything over it! Only kidding. If people liked the results, I don't see the problem. I got some reissues. I don't know if it is analog or digital, but if I was impressed with the, ur, 'pressing' I would buy more. Sometimes, I can't tell and I think that is a red flag because shouldn't it be obvious?

Agree!, posted on August 9, 2022 at 13:47:04

Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5590
Joined: November 15, 2016

I've found new release vinyl to be a very mixed bag and have been buying more CDs. My digital playback sound quality is good more so now that I'm storing it on a hard drive. At a $125 for a UHQR or a One-Step it's a big decision to sacrifice 3 or 4 new quality vinyl reissues or as many nm/nm- originals not to mention about 10 CDs of new music. As the dumpster divers laugh and call me an idiot with more money than brains for paying $10 for a new CD or a vg+ 70s record. Reminds me of that old song -

View YouTube Video

RE: Aaawww, You had to have bought a One Step?, posted on August 9, 2022 at 14:31:10
teenage diplomat Audiophile Posts: 896 Location: burke, va usa Joined: February 3, 2001	Well, I've bought two one-steps: KOB and Modern Cool. I frankly wasn't that impressed with the former, and sold it for a slight profit. I absolutely love the latter, and prefer it even to my original limited edition multi-LP 45 rpm version. Go figure. I won't be joining the class action, should it develop.

RE: Irreparable Audiophile Psychological Damage, posted on August 9, 2022 at 16:00:26
Sondek Audiophile Posts: 9632 Location: Fort Worth Joined: May 17, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	I know I'm traumatized! I think it's given me a PTSD.

Sorry to butt in...., posted on August 9, 2022 at 17:27:29
Tre' Industry Professional Posts: 17305 Location: So. Cal. Joined: February 9, 2002	"I'm also unconvinced on SuperVinyl." I can't understand why they couldn't come up with their own name for their new vinyl. "SuperVinyl" was made by JVC and it is no longer available. Why is Mo-Fi using that name? Is that even legal? Tre' Have Fun and Enjoy the Music "Still Working the Problem"

Is it ok if I still love my Mofi Ultradeck?, posted on August 9, 2022 at 17:58:22
mbnx01 Audiophile Posts: 7956 Location: Eagle, Idaho Joined: October 22, 2004	Because I do, I really do. Don't care about their records, I don't buy $125 records. Ever. 'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

But..., posted on August 9, 2022 at 20:02:19
vinyl survivor Audiophile Posts: 1471 Location: Southeastern US Joined: November 28, 2007	The SACD is only 1x DSD. The one step vinyl is being cut from 4x DSD which is higher resolution than the SACD.

Nice setup, posted on August 9, 2022 at 20:08:43

padreken
Audiophile

Posts: 8518
Location: San Diego
Joined: November 28, 2000

I've got that same cabinet in cherry for the TV and home theater stuff.

Regarding MoFi-were they dishonest? Yup. The records still sound grest,though. I'm with Paul McGowan on this-if quad rate DSD is capable of making a perfect copy of the master (and it appears that it is, based on listening to the handful of One-Steps I've heard) then this is welcome news-every play of the master causes degradation. Personally, I'm more annoyed by the idjits proclaiming "see, digital was always perfect!" as of the last couple of decades of progress in digital audio hadn't happened.

RE: But..., posted on August 9, 2022 at 21:54:53

Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5590
Joined: November 15, 2016

Surely going to the SACD from DSD 256 is going to be a more direct task than going to vinyl or Redbook. Though the SACD and both well engineered vinyl and Redbook CDs could benefit from engineering efforts facilitated by working with the higher resolution DSD master like refreshing aging master tapes or whatever engineers do to make reissues/remasters/remixes sound better when working in that domain.

I know little about this and don't have much of an interest. But I think this is all pretty basic stuff. Ie. it's easier to work in higher resolution than the resolution of the desired result.

No, you are not supposed to "trust" it., posted on August 9, 2022 at 23:22:30
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	You are supposed to listen and judge the r esults for yourself. And that's why these particular folks are pissed. They did that and liked what they heard.

But that's the thing - it's the DSD mastering that accounts for the goodness, posted on August 9, 2022 at 23:41:14

Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5590
Joined: November 15, 2016

Not those special processes. And like I said on day one of this "debacle"- just because the $60 45 RPM version doesn't sound as good as the $125 One-Step on SuperVinyl why should I believe it's because of the One-Step or the SuperVinyl and not some digital editing magic?

I mean they went to the effort to attribute all this greatness to their trademarks by deceiving us - why should we not expect the deception to continue in convincing us that the more expensive One-Step and SuperVinyl is the best we can get? Bet me - either engineering promised it and plans on delivering OR it's actually a marketing directive.

I was going to buy a bunch of stuff and do like you say. Sorry man I just no longer have the interest. But then again I'm not really the guy they want to sell to anyways - it's those guys who are buying as many of each title as possible then reselling them. Matter of fact it's probably those kinds resellers who are suing them - not some all analog guy who feels like he's been snookered. Makes sense to me - this kind of reputation killer is probably costing those buyers big money.

RE: We'll all get a $5 coupon to use on a $125 digital LP.., posted on August 10, 2022 at 04:38:19
newvinyl	viridian wrote, "We'll all get a $5 coupon to use on a $125 digital LP" It looks like there are only two plaintiffs. It's not a Class Action lawsuit.

RE: We'll all get a $5 coupon to use on a $125 digital LP.., posted on August 10, 2022 at 05:58:40
radiodaddy Audiophile Posts: 1600 Location: New Jersey Joined: August 13, 2003	The filing is "on behalf of themselves and persons similarly situated."

Many years ago, I was sued for libel ..., posted on August 10, 2022 at 06:14:43

radiodaddy
Audiophile

Posts: 1600
Location: New Jersey
Joined: August 13, 2003

... by a county commissioner in a southern jurisdiction that shall remain unnamed. I was a young radio newsman, and had a tape recording of the statement in dispute. My case was taken pro bono by a white-shoe law firm high above Peachtree Street (the case was filed in Atlanta, though it didn't occur there).

On our first meeting with the managing partner of the firm (a courtly Southern gentleman of the old school with deep political ties in the state), he asked me to lay out my side of the case, then stepped back and smiled as my wild-eyed, clueless 23-year-old self went on a rant about the unfairness of it all, that I had proof for everything I wrote and said, and HOW COULD HE EVEN FILE SUCH A THING WHEN I WAS SO OBVIOUSLY IN THE RIGHT???

Still smiling, but with a touch of patience and gravitas that I really did not merit, my counsellor replied in a gentle drawl, "Son, you can sue anybody for anything. That's what makes this country great. 'Course, that don't mean you gonna win!"

Actually we don't know, posted on August 10, 2022 at 06:37:59
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	Mastering engineers keep a lot of their tricks close to the vest. All this talk about transparency but so little that goes into the mastering is revealed. And since we don't get to do direct side by side comparisons between mofi's cutting system and that of other mastering engineers we just don't know. And that is ok. Well, except for those with a deadly allergy to anything digital...-

RE: "white-shoe law firm", posted on August 10, 2022 at 08:20:34
B. Scarpia	A wonderful expression from those days of yesteryear.

And the real winners are....., posted on August 10, 2022 at 08:47:25

TGR
Audiophile

Posts: 3002
Location: No. California
Joined: March 22, 2004

Having been through a number of civil cases as a plaintiff, a defendant and a juror, typically the only real winners in litigation are the lawyers. The costs of litigation tend to be borne by all of us, by the way. FWIW, most lawyers will spin all kinds of stories about what they will do for you, and your rights, and so on, and they love to stir the pot, so that the sides are less likely to come to a reasonable settlement.

Litigation usually takes years to reach conclusion.

Jury trial, posted on August 10, 2022 at 13:19:54
kh6idf Audiophile Posts: 1474 Location: Texas Joined: May 2, 2001	Can we get Michael Fremer as the expert witness please?

Why is Music Direct being sued?, posted on August 10, 2022 at 17:59:15
AudioDwebe Audiophile Posts: 1910 Location: Pacific Northwest Joined: November 12, 2001	I don't see the reason for suing a vendor. If the records sounded spectacular last month, shouldn't they still sound equally as good this month? "Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)

they own Mofi. nt, posted on August 11, 2022 at 01:15:11
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	nt

Vinyl Asylum

Shit just got real...

172.58.141.175