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Phono stage for my Technics SL -1500 C

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Posted on April 29, 2021 at 10:05:58
bob24
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Joined: August 19, 2000
 I'm looking for suggestions for a phono stage for my Technics SL 1500 C TT.
I am currently using the built-in phono stage, but now want to upgrade. I know there is a plethora of phono stages at all price ranges, but realize higher price does not guarantee good sound.My budget is $1,500-2K.but willing to spend less if a good match for my turntable.

I've read a few reviews from budget phono stages to my budget range and slightly higher.

My associated gear is Blue Circle BC 300 pre-amp and Blue Circle 1022 solid state amp with classic Audio Physic Virgos loudspeakers.
I'm currently using the Ortofon Pro S30 MM.
I should also mention, i'm approaching 70, and have some hearing loss,but minimal acording to my doctor. So maybe a higher end phono stage may not be in my best interest.
Which phono stages should i look at?

Thanks!


 

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RE: Phono stage for my Technics SL -1500 C, posted on April 29, 2021 at 10:20:54
Don Reid
Audiophile

Posts: 890
Location: Rural NW Georgia
Joined: February 2, 2001
Contributor
  Since: April 1, 2010
 I use the Parasound Halo JC3 Jr. It's $1500 MSRP. I think it sounds very good. It has good, easily set input. The only caveat is that maximum gain is 60dB so that could be a problem depending on future cartridge changes and the gain of your pre amp.
I dream of an America where a chicken can cross the road without having it's motives questioned.

 

RE: Phono stage for my Technics SL -1500 C, posted on April 29, 2021 at 10:35:08
bob24
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Joined: August 19, 2000
 Sorry for being uneducated, but do you mean the gain of the preamp or the gain of the phono stage?

 

Let's step back for a moment..., posted on April 29, 2021 at 13:03:23
Phil_S
Audiophile

Posts: 1145
Location: Washington DC
Joined: July 17, 2003
 Consider the turntable, cartridge, and phono stage separately.

The turntable stays, nothing wrong with it. I have it's predecessor the SL-1200 M3. Love it.

The cartridge is where I'd make the first change. The Pro S30 is a spherical stylus, not the last word in resolution. From $100 to $250 there are a plethora of cartridges that will sound much better. They have styli ranging from elliptical through line contact & shibata. You can even buy them mounted on a headshell. You will however need to double check the alignment.

You won't know how good or bad the phono stage is until the cartridge is upgraded.

Good Luck

 

RE: Let's step back for a moment..., posted on April 29, 2021 at 13:17:02
bob24
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Joined: August 19, 2000
 Thanks for your reply. Actually I was going to upgrade to the Ortofon STY 40.
I didn't want to get involved in a cartridge that requires alignment. I don't trust myself with tweaking and working with something small because of my eyesight. The Concorde type stylus is simple to install. No alignment necessary.

 

RE: Phono stage for my Technics SL -1500 C, posted on April 29, 2021 at 13:33:44
afro18
Audiophile

Posts: 629
Location: NorthEast Ohio
Joined: December 1, 2003
 I agree with a previous poster: work on that cartridge first. If you like the Ortofon "house sound", upgrade that stylus to an Ortofon 40 Stylus. This stylus should fit your current cartridge, and also is a Fitz Geiger stylus (basically, line contact...the prime cuts of phono styli).

If you look around, you can get one for around $400 shipped (I did get this price from a site.......not a sales person for them, by LPG--R from NV, USA had that price...you might even find a cheaper price for it.


That leaves you with around $1600. I would then get a pair of Audioquest Evergreen interconnect and some basic cheap speaker wire for a ground (what I use). The low capacitance of this model (around 21pf/m....for around 63pf for the 1 meter pair) will work well with most Moving Magnet cartridges. I did find a common site (think "South American Rain Forrest") that has them for $60 shipped for a pair.


Now, you have a little over $1500. Honestly, I would just get a good used Lehmann Black Cube and save the rest. The original model can be had for $700usd, leaving you $800 to park.

If you are willing to wait and build-up cash, just to the stylus/interconnect upgrade and save another $1500. At $3000, you can upgrade your preamp to a used Stan Klyne with a phono stage you can stop shopping with. Also at that price, Manley Chinnok and there is currently a Pass Labs XP-17 for less than $3500 on Audiogon (honestly, if you can currently get another $1500 really quick...just get that Pass Labs phono stage and upgrade the cartridge later to just about whatever your heart desires.....)


Martin N.

 

RE: Phono stage for my Technics SL -1500 C, posted on April 29, 2021 at 14:45:15
bob24
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Joined: August 19, 2000
 Nice post.I'm a little timid about cartridge alignment. I've never done it before and not sure i can trust my eyes to do it correctly and without damaging the stylus!
If i were to go that route though, what's a good match to my turntable? I'd be willing to spend maybe $500-1K.
Aside from the included stock stylus, i have only upgraded once to the Pro S30. A big improvement over the stock Ortofon, but haven't tried other brands of cartidges for comparison.

I like my turntable, but i wish Technics had ditched the built-in phono stage and designed a better cue lever.It doesn't hold in place very long once i move the tonearm to the record.I starts to fall on its own.
I usually have to hold up the lever at the same time i move the arm over.


 

RE: Phono stage for my Technics SL -1500 C, posted on April 29, 2021 at 15:59:40
BCR
Audiophile

Posts: 2444
Location: connecticut
Joined: April 7, 2009
 If you're sticking with a mm cartridge this tube Quicksilver would be a nice fit. BTW, it is the one that I use!

 

The cuing mechanism should hold, posted on April 29, 2021 at 17:38:35
Phil_S
Audiophile

Posts: 1145
Location: Washington DC
Joined: July 17, 2003
 If purchased from a B&M dealer contact them ASAP. Don't know what your alternatives if Amazon or similar outfits.

 

RE: Let's step back for a moment..., posted on April 29, 2021 at 17:40:56
Phil_S
Audiophile

Posts: 1145
Location: Washington DC
Joined: July 17, 2003
 There are other alternatives to the Concord type of setup. Look at LP Gear, Acoustic Sounds, even Amazon. All kinds of cartridges com pre mounted on either fixed or adjustable headshells.

 

RE: Let's step back for a moment..., posted on April 29, 2021 at 18:31:26
bob24
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Joined: August 19, 2000
 Thank you. I will research those companies.

 

RE: Phono stage for my Technics SL -1500 C, posted on April 30, 2021 at 05:52:53
volunteer
Audiophile

Posts: 5666
Location: Louisville, KY
Joined: January 7, 2012
 There should be an adjustment for that. No?


-Wendell

 

RE: Phono stage for my Technics SL -1500 C, posted on April 30, 2021 at 10:49:53
bob24
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Joined: August 19, 2000
 Yes, but I've never aligned before. I'll have to read the Technics manual or find a how to video.

 

At the risk of being attacked, using the plastic, Technics, overhang, posted on April 30, 2021 at 15:03:39
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 7503
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005
 tool would be an okay place to start I believe. The headshell to stylus tip is the same for the Technics SL-1200 and the Technics SL-1500C, and the plastic tool for alignment is described in the SL-1200 manual. It is also the easiest and simplest method for new users.

Below is the plastic tool instructions for the SL-1200. Note the 52mm distance from the rear of the headshell to the stylus tip.







Below is a picture from the SL-1500C manual showing the same 52mm distance as noted above for the SL-1200 manual.




 

+1, posted on April 30, 2021 at 18:42:51
Phil_S
Audiophile

Posts: 1145
Location: Washington DC
Joined: July 17, 2003
 I just installed an AT cartridge using that method on Wednesday. Then I checked it against the Bearwald protractor and it was spot on! I was very surprised and pleased.

 

Technics gauge is for Stevenson, not Baerwald..., posted on April 30, 2021 at 21:27:55
slider
Audiophile

Posts: 298
Joined: September 13, 2010
 ... so that would be surprising if it was really spot on :)

 

RE: Technics gauge is for Stevenson, not Baerwald..., posted on May 1, 2021 at 04:12:29
Phil_S
Audiophile

Posts: 1145
Location: Washington DC
Joined: July 17, 2003
 It may be time to pick up a "real" protractor then. I've been using the download from Vinyl Engine for years. As you have to punch the paper manually it's very possible to get it wrong.

On the other hand I hit both null spots and it sounds good. The Audio Gods must be smiling at me!

I

 

It isn't "Stevenson" either!, posted on May 1, 2021 at 17:12:51
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 The Technics nulls are 58.8 and 113.5mm
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

RE: Technics gauge is for Stevenson, not Baerwald..., posted on May 1, 2021 at 17:26:33
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 The nulls for the Technics alignment (15mm overhang and 22° offset) are 58.8 and 113.5mm - it is impossible to hit the Baerwald (66,121) nulls having used the Technics gauge since the required overhang is ~2.5 mm longer (overhang 17.46mm) and the offset ~1.5° greater (offset = 23.46°) compared to the intended Technics alignment.
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

In the "around $2k region. it's tough to beat the EAR 834P., posted on May 2, 2021 at 03:39:00
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014
 I use one with my SL-1500C with several different MMs.







Opus 33 1/3

 

RE: In the "around $2k region. it's tough to beat the EAR 834P., posted on May 2, 2021 at 10:04:05
bob24
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Joined: August 19, 2000
 Thanks. I've heard good things about this phono stage.
I'll do some more research.

 

I remember when it was $750 (nt), posted on May 2, 2021 at 10:32:32
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 nt

 

The MC section of the MM/MC model is not so great, but the MM only model is a winner. /nt\, posted on May 2, 2021 at 14:53:43
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014




Opus 33 1/3

 

Yeah, but you're older than dirt, Dave. ;^) /nt\, posted on May 2, 2021 at 16:32:01
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014





Opus 33 1/3

 

RE: It isn't "Stevenson" either!, posted on May 2, 2021 at 17:15:06
slider
Audiophile

Posts: 298
Joined: September 13, 2010
 Sure, but it's pretty close to Stevenson-DIN, within 0.1 deg offset and 0.1 mm overhang, so close enough to align with a Stevenson protractor using DIN inner radius.

But if you use the exact 230 mm / 15 mm / 22 deg numbers they spec it for, yes, it's a custom alignment with the null points you list. The point was that it's significantly different from Baerwald if one is aligning with much precision.

 

RE: It isn't "Stevenson" either!, posted on May 2, 2021 at 18:58:58
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
 I am not sure what you mean about Stevenson "DIN" since the DIN modulation envelope technically spans from 57.5mm to 146.3mm, although it sounds like you are referring to Stevenson 1C as the nearest match. Whilst it might seem pedantic of me, you will see from the link, that although the overhang and offset are similar, the resultant arcs are very different.

Most people are actually referring to 1B when talking about a Stevenson alignment.
It is a common misconception that is repeated over and over that Stevenson is an "alignment" where you put the inner null at the minimum radius for whatever envelope you choose. If you read the Stevenson paper, he does not specify the inner null at the minimum radius - he applies the standard Lofgren equations to generate 3 variants for a Universal solution suitable for the three main record sizes based on the following modulation envelopes:
For a 215mm pivot/spindle distance and applying Lofgren A equations to the following modulation envelopes (converted from the values in the Table given in inches in the paper), you get the corresponding overhang (H) and offset (O) rounded to 1dp.
1A: (57.89 -> 145.26mm) H=16.9, O=23.2
1B: (54.81 -> 145.26mm) H=15.8, O=22.6
1C: (51.77 -> 145.26mm) H=14.8 (14.76), O=22.0 (21.99)

Technics: (53.47 -> 140.6mm) H=15, O=22

Anyway, I have created a link to the VE calculator to show how different the resultant geometries are to the Technics alignment. There will be some errors in the calculations due to rounding for the length conversions from imperial to SI.
Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

RE: It isn't "Stevenson" either!, posted on May 3, 2021 at 08:08:43
slider
Audiophile

Posts: 298
Joined: September 13, 2010
 I just meant that if you choose Stevenson on the calculator and set inner groove radius to DIN standard, leaving outer radius at default IEC standard, you get very close to Technics specification, within 0.1 mm overhang and 0.1 degree offset angle, as shown below. No biggie, just an observation, but thanks for the information about the different Stevenson variations ...


 

RE: Phono stage for my Technics SL -1500 C, posted on May 4, 2021 at 05:03:31
rrsands
Audiophile

Posts: 2568
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: July 11, 2001
 If I were looking to replace my Wrightsound 100 w K&K stepup, I'd look at the Tavish tubed p/s or the Parasound JC3 Jr solid state phono pre. The EAR swould be a solid choice as well, as mentioned below.

 

RE: Phono stage for my Technics SL -1500 C, posted on September 25, 2021 at 10:16:49
Don Reid
Audiophile

Posts: 890
Location: Rural NW Georgia
Joined: February 2, 2001
Contributor
  Since: April 1, 2010
 "Sorry for being uneducated, but do you mean the gain of the preamp or the gain of the phono stage?"

I meant the gain of the JC3 Jr. phonostage. It has a maximum gain of 60dB with RCA interconnects, but 66 dB with balanced interconnects to the linestage preamp. I now use balanced XLR interconnects.
I dream of an America where a chicken can cross the road without having it's motives questioned.

 

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