going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed

104.129.199.29

Posted on January 13, 2021 at 13:58:30

NuWave
Audiophile

Posts: 2619
Location: Wisconsin
Joined: March 22, 2002

Ordered 6 Mundorf capacitors from Roy to put in my VTA PH16, should be here any day. I built the phono stage myself but my skills at de-soldering are lousy at best, I hate doing it. Any advice on putting these things in? Also, why does solder you accidentally put in a wrong location not F$#%@! melt no matter what you do to it? :-(

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RE: going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed

Lew

08:58:55 01/14/21

5

already have a nice solder station

NuWave

13:30:15 01/14/21

4

Where are you setting the temperature control?

Lew

08:50:15 01/15/21

3

...

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RE: going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed

Lew

08:58:55 01/14/21

5

already have a nice solder station

NuWave

13:30:15 01/14/21

4

Where are you setting the temperature control?

Lew

08:50:15 01/15/21

3

apparently i am WAY too low

NuWave

12:04:45 01/15/21

2

It's counter-intuitive, but...

Lew

10:34:06 01/18/21

yes it is

NuWave

15:45:47 01/20/21

RE: going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed

MikeWI

21:08:23 01/13/21

Are these things just a gimmick?

alaskahiatt

19:42:31 01/13/21

13

Absolutely not a gimmick.

ToddM

09:48:15 01/14/21

8

Thanks. I picked one up from Radio Shack as they were dying, but

alaskahiatt

11:41:54 01/14/21

I've got one of those, but it doesn't work very well for me.

ghost of olddude55

10:07:00 01/14/21

6

Consider me in the vocal minority ;)

ToddM

11:11:40 01/14/21

5

Yours ever stops working for some reason...

ghost of olddude55

14:34:10 01/14/21

RE: NTE No Clean Solder Braid, in a class by itself

B. Scarpia

12:54:23 01/14/21

3

700 deg is SAFE?

NuWave

13:34:22 01/14/21

2

RE: 700 deg is SAFE?

dee eye why

16:57:33 01/14/21

RE: 700 deg is SAFE? 400 C., 750 F. nt

B. Scarpia

14:39:55 01/14/21

No, it really did extend my manhood. If you know what I mean. nt

viridian

20:14:06 01/13/21

3

Kind of like that parrot on Peter Sellers shoulder.

alaskahiatt

11:47:55 01/14/21

2

This site is called "Vinyl Asylum", or am I misunderstanding? Nt

viridian

13:16:41 01/14/21

An Asylum for sure! nt

alaskahiatt

18:46:44 01/14/21

RE: going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed

John-from Seattle

18:46:08 01/13/21

Desoldering wick.

ghost of olddude55

14:42:48 01/13/21

+1 on Desoldering wick nt

blues4ever

15:00:18 01/13/21

RE: going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed

Cougar

14:29:13 01/13/21

RE: going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed

B. Scarpia

14:27:30 01/13/21

IMHO, you should invest in a solder sucker or some desoldering braid.

viridian

14:23:32 01/13/21

4

You should invest in a solder sucker AND some desoldering braid. ;-)

John Elison

19:15:19 01/13/21

I have those

NuWave

17:22:55 01/13/21

Once the old one and the leads are out...

viridian

18:12:08 01/13/21

"Cut the leads first". Excellent idea! nt

alaskahiatt

14:48:08 01/13/21

IMHO, you should invest in a solder sucker or some desoldering braid., posted on January 13, 2021 at 14:23:32
viridian	I usually cut the leads at the body of the old caps. That allows me to grab onto the lead with my pliers after having removed most of the solder with the above recommended items. Then a quick touch of the iron and a pull on the lead and out it comes. Best of luck. Great project.

RE: going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed, posted on January 13, 2021 at 14:27:30

B. Scarpia

You have to add fresh solder to melt old solder. Sometimes tinning, wiping and then tinning again will get it done, sometimes you have to touch the fresh solder to the old. Get a Solder Sucker, bulb or plunger. I don't have enough hands to use the bulb type.

I use this one, good enough for occasional work

Quality solder wick is also necessary for boards and pulling apart point-to-point cleanly. You want NTE No Clean the only one I've found absolutely reliable. Use it holding the solder to it as though you were soldering it to the part or board and pulling/rubbing the wick across the part.

RE: going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed, posted on January 13, 2021 at 14:29:13

Cougar
Audiophile

Posts: 4583
Location: SoCal
Joined: June 25, 2001

These are the 6 film caps that go under the PCB correct?

Do you have some already soldered in place? If so, and you want to keep the originals without damage to them there are two ways. With the lead in the grasp of pliers, you can heat the soldering pad and gently pull on the lead until it comes out of the solder joint pad. Or you can cut the leads and do the same with less issues. Then you can go back and clean out the rest of the solder in the hole with either solder Wick or one of those cheap desolder hand sucker pump.

Desoldering wick., posted on January 13, 2021 at 14:42:48

ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32567
Joined: July 14, 2017

I've got a solder sucker and it doesn't work nearly as good a wick.
I know zip-ah-dee-doo-dah about circuits and can't read a schematic. Look at the circuit board, I have no idea what does what.
But I've successfully recapped two solid state preamps. Go slow, use the continuity setting on your DVOM to make sure all your solder joints are good.
When I did the Halfer DH-101, I did a set of caps, then plugged it in and listened to it to make sure everything still worked.

The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

"Cut the leads first". Excellent idea! nt, posted on January 13, 2021 at 14:48:08
alaskahiatt Audiophile Posts: 7506 Joined: December 9, 2000 Contributor Since: November 1, 2005	nt

+1 on Desoldering wick nt, posted on January 13, 2021 at 15:00:18
blues4ever Audiophile Posts: 1004 Location: New Mexico Joined: May 28, 2003 Contributor Since: June 22, 2010	For perfect tone use Columbia Needles For Best results use Victor Needles For best results use OKEH Needles

I have those, posted on January 13, 2021 at 17:22:55
NuWave Audiophile Posts: 2619 Location: Wisconsin Joined: March 22, 2002	The braid seems like it gets very little, but the plunger/sucker thingy does work if I time it just right. Heat and pull was my plan, but can I get that hole completely clear for the new ones. Do I keep them fairly close to the board with short leads? Sometimes I see them dangling off to the side.....maybe because they're too big for the location.

Once the old one and the leads are out..., posted on January 13, 2021 at 18:12:08

viridian

.....just touch your iron to the board and remove the rest from the hole with your solder sucker or wick, The wick may be easier here.

Yes, I prefer to see the caps in contact with the board as that acts as a stabilizing/damping element as regards vibration. When getting the new caps ready for install into the cleaned holes, push the leads through the holes, make contact between cap and board, and slightly bend the leads from the back to hold the cap in place. Solder the holes and, when the solder is dry, cut the leads with your clippers. Voila.

RE: going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed, posted on January 13, 2021 at 18:46:08

John-from Seattle
Audiophile

Posts: 1154
Location: Tacoma
Joined: November 13, 1999

Agree, generally, the wick is preferable to the suckers as they one, will clog up, and two, may or may not suck out all the solder. What I do is use the wick to get the most of the old solder up, then use the sucker to finish up any through hole mounting pads if need be.

When inserting the part, a radial cap for instance, I push it all the way down onto the board itself, then flip the board, holding the cap in place and gently bend the leads to hold it in place, then begin to solder.

Make certain your have freshly tinned your tip, use high enough heat to form a good solder and either wet the area with a flux pen or use rosin core solder as you want to have it be smooth and shiny and round, not dull and gray. Then with your side cutters, clip the extra leads off at the joint, done as far as soldering, next to check to be certain it works, obviously.

Good luck!

You should invest in a solder sucker AND some desoldering braid. ;-), posted on January 13, 2021 at 19:15:19

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

You really need both of these to do the best job. Then you can do a professional job of unsoldering and resoldering.

It also helps to have a variable temperature soldering iron. I use a Weller Soldering Station.

Good luck,
John Elison

Weller Soldering Station at Amazon

Are these things just a gimmick?, posted on January 13, 2021 at 19:42:31

alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 7506
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
Since: November 1, 2005

nt

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ecg-j-045-ds?seid=srese1&

No, it really did extend my manhood. If you know what I mean. nt, posted on January 13, 2021 at 20:14:06
viridian	Nt

RE: going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed, posted on January 13, 2021 at 21:08:23
MikeWI Audiophile Posts: 632 Joined: March 22, 2002	If you are working with a ground plane or heavy traces, which is pretty common with caps, a higher wattage soldering iron is helpful. Working fast might be necessary due to the high heat to ensure you don't damage the PCB. More POWER!! :) Definitely dating myself. Mike

RE: going to upgrade some caps, maybe some advice needed, posted on January 14, 2021 at 08:58:55

Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000

I second what John wrote about a soldering station. Those devices maintain a constant controlled temperature. From what you say about difficulty in removing old solder, I am guessing you're using a weak iron with no temperature control. Both the Weller that John uses and my Haake cost a bit over $100, will last forever and make jobs like this easy. I also have both a cheap spring loaded solder sucker and braid, and the sucker does it for me 95% of the time.

One hint: when removing radial-lead electrolytics, don't try to pull both leads at the same time if you want to save the cap for future re-use. Heat one lead and pull gently. Then heat the other lead and do likewise. Back and forth until the cap is free. This will also preserve the circuit board tracings, so you don't destroy what you were trying to upgrade.

Absolutely not a gimmick., posted on January 14, 2021 at 09:48:15

ToddM
Audiophile

Posts: 1612
Location: Atlanta, USA
Joined: May 15, 2001
Contributor
Since: June 13, 2005

I've never had as much luck with using just solder wick as some others here, but IME that tool right there is the real deal, especially with point-to-point gear. If you're working on unusually heavy solder joints/blobs, a second low-power iron helps to loosen it for easy removal. I have a Hakko desoldering kit, which of course is badass, etc, but it also requires more maintenance to keep the performance up to snuff, and it's a still a bit bulky to use in the aforementioned point-to-point gear, which can be both tiny and cramped.

If you do buy one of the vintage style desoldering tools, get extra tips and stock up on steel paper clips to keep the nozzles clear (it stays hot enough that you can *carefully* run the clip in the nozzle to make sure it stays clear).

I've got one of those, but it doesn't work very well for me., posted on January 14, 2021 at 10:07:00
ghost of olddude55 Audiophile Posts: 32567 Joined: July 14, 2017	desoldering wick works well enough that the cap will drop out by itself. The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

Consider me in the vocal minority ;), posted on January 14, 2021 at 11:11:40
ToddM Audiophile Posts: 1612 Location: Atlanta, USA Joined: May 15, 2001 Contributor Since: June 13, 2005	Like I said, the wick has never been great for me (in over 40 years of trying), although I have had some success using it to fine tune some desoldered areas.

Thanks. I picked one up from Radio Shack as they were dying, but, posted on January 14, 2021 at 11:41:54
alaskahiatt Audiophile Posts: 7506 Joined: December 9, 2000 Contributor Since: November 1, 2005	I have not had a reason to use it yet. Thanks for the paper clip tip too.

Kind of like that parrot on Peter Sellers shoulder., posted on January 14, 2021 at 11:47:55

alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 7506
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
Since: November 1, 2005

nt

Sellers

RE: NTE No Clean Solder Braid, in a class by itself, posted on January 14, 2021 at 12:54:23

B. Scarpia

Other brands just aren't the same and are frustrating to use.

Both the Cat-A-Pult and my current electric I linked to down the thread are great for point-to-point but often leave solder in a PCB eyelet. Heating the lead on the new part and trying to push it through is hit or miss and can overheat the part.

Holding the braid with the iron to the eyelet and then introducing a bit of fresh solder just as if you were soldering the braid to the board, then pulling/rubbing an inch or two of the braid along instantly clears the hole. I'd need prehensile toes to do that with a bulb type.

As others have posted, a solder station is desirable; my Hakko is nearly old enough to vote and invaluable especially when you need to bring the thunder like tinning heavy solid core wire for ground buss or tinning that pesky Cardas with each strand urethaned.

With great power comes great responsibility, though; especially beginners should be careful and stay in the 700 degree range for nearly all tasks. Using the higher heat to quickly get on and off which is preferred, takes some practice.

This site is called "Vinyl Asylum", or am I misunderstanding? Nt, posted on January 14, 2021 at 13:16:41
viridian	Nt

already have a nice solder station, posted on January 14, 2021 at 13:30:15
NuWave Audiophile Posts: 2619 Location: Wisconsin Joined: March 22, 2002	In fact i have to crank the thing up so darn high for the lead-free solder I used originally. I'm going back to lead

700 deg is SAFE?, posted on January 14, 2021 at 13:34:22
NuWave Audiophile Posts: 2619 Location: Wisconsin Joined: March 22, 2002	geze maybe that's my problem, I'm working just over 400, except with my lead-free solder. I was afraid over overheating stuff.

Yours ever stops working for some reason..., posted on January 14, 2021 at 14:34:10
ghost of olddude55 Audiophile Posts: 32567 Joined: July 14, 2017	shoot me an email, and I'll send you mine. The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

RE: 700 deg is SAFE? 400 C., 750 F. nt, posted on January 14, 2021 at 14:39:55
B. Scarpia

RE: 700 deg is SAFE?, posted on January 14, 2021 at 16:57:33
dee eye why Audiophile Posts: 1148 Location: so. ohio Joined: March 20, 2003	I have a Hakko also and do pretty much everything at 700F. I occasionally go higher for heavy duty stuff but rarely ever go lower. At that temp the solder melts pretty much instantly and you can get "in and out" quickly and not overheat the part. Soaking a part at 400F. for long periods will cause overheating. . Freak out...Far out...In out....

An Asylum for sure! nt, posted on January 14, 2021 at 18:46:44
alaskahiatt Audiophile Posts: 7506 Joined: December 9, 2000 Contributor Since: November 1, 2005	nt

Where are you setting the temperature control?, posted on January 15, 2021 at 08:50:15
Lew Audiophile Posts: 10911 Location: Bethesda, Maryland Joined: December 11, 2000	My Haake came with a default to 750 degrees, and that's where I found it works very well, with lead-containing solder only. So far, I have been able to avoid lead-free solder. Before purchasing the Haake, I had been using a Velleman solder station for maybe 15-20 years, which I used to set at about 670 degrees. The higher temp of the Haake works much better.

apparently i am WAY too low, posted on January 15, 2021 at 12:04:45
NuWave Audiophile Posts: 2619 Location: Wisconsin Joined: March 22, 2002	I'm around 400 F , as low as I can and have the solder still melt. I was about 575 for the lead free. I'm going to go higher now, no wonder I was having issues. I have a couple different solders now that have left their packages since my original build and now I forgot which one is lead or lead-free. :-(

It's counter-intuitive, but..., posted on January 18, 2021 at 10:34:06

Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000

at higher temperatures of the solder gun, you can get in and out much faster with actually less risk of overheating and damaging a part. The change from ~670 degrees with my Velleman to 750 degrees with may Hakko shows me this is true on a daily basis. I just love that Hakko, even though I misspelled the brand name several times above. I bought the 888D for a bit more than $100; it's all I will ever need.

yes it is, posted on January 20, 2021 at 15:45:47
NuWave Audiophile Posts: 2619 Location: Wisconsin Joined: March 22, 2002	wish I knew this before I built the PH16, would have saved me some grief and profanity ... lesson learned. I do have variable temp, some off brand cheapo called X-tronic, but seems to work ok. I don't think that beats the rack stereo I once saw called "Electro Brand", with a 'tower' speaker containing maybe one 5 1/4 driver.