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High gain phono stage

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Posted on October 23, 2020 at 06:29:38
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 Hi,

I am getting into a MC cartridge and I am looking to avoid using an SUT or a head amp if possible. Don't want the extra IC's and such. I own about 20 preamps( all tube but 2)but none of them are high gain. I can use them with a step up device but as I said I am trying to avoid that.

Another inmate uses the Pass Labs Xono. Are there any other ideas out there I could possibly try. The Pass Xono is very hard to find and the XP 15 is a bit pricey. Don't mind spending the money for the results but I am not really a SS person but I try anything upon suggestion if it makes sense.

Thanks

 

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I can't recommend it yet, but the Manley. . . , posted on October 23, 2020 at 07:05:57
peteSF
 Chinook that I recently purchased fits your gain needs. I've only had it for a week, and it is still settling in, but so far it seems to bethe final stage I will buy. Very versitile as far as loading etc, well built, and pretty.
P

 

The PS Audio Stellar is getting a lot of positive press, posted on October 23, 2020 at 07:07:23
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007



...for what that's worth.

I'm not quite sure why you're so opposed to good step-up transformers though. With your ability to solder, nothing says you have to have to have the transformers mounted in an external enclosure, which would require the extra interconnects, etc.

Mount them internally, near the input jacks using two capacitor clamps, the way Pete Millett did in his LR phono. Shorter signal path, a cleaner look, and less expensive.

Adding two transformers to a phono stage you already know you like makes more sense to me than buying a new phono stage you have no idea if you'll like.




 

I think the phono stage your looking at is better than mine., posted on October 23, 2020 at 08:12:54
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32546
Joined: July 14, 2017
 But my own experience is that I'd rather have a phono stage with a lot of setting for resistance and enough gain for an MC cart than a SUT or a head amp. I've used all three and prefer the full phono stage.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: High gain phono stage, posted on October 23, 2020 at 08:16:06
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 What happened to your phono-stage with 68-dB gain?

That would be perfect for a LOMC cartridge with 0.2-mV rated output.

 

RE: High gain phono stage, posted on October 23, 2020 at 09:04:21
weedeewop
Audiophile

Posts: 231
Location: Midwest
Joined: June 22, 2013
 Well HiFi Shark can be a good tool for see wjhat may be avaiable on the market. Found this:


https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649656816-pass-labs-xono-phono-stage-with-full-size-power-supply/

 

Don't you already have a SUT?, posted on October 23, 2020 at 09:07:45
Cougar
Audiophile

Posts: 4574
Location: SoCal
Joined: June 25, 2001
 I saw in another one of your post you said you had bought the SUT from Nclayton on eBay with the 3440AH transformers in it.

 

RE: The PS Audio Stellar is getting a lot of positive press, posted on October 23, 2020 at 09:16:32
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I think that's a great idea but not many MM phono stages are built to allow for the installation of SUTs in the nice neat way that Pete Millet has done it in your photo. (I assume that those are the innards of the PM LR phono stage.)

 

RE: built-in transformers, posted on October 23, 2020 at 09:55:49
slider
Audiophile

Posts: 298
Joined: September 13, 2010
 Yea, that's the path I took in my CJ Premier 15, room in the back near the connectors, so simple matter to insert the vintage Partridge 1:6 transformers ...


 

That's true, Lew, posted on October 23, 2020 at 10:17:20
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 And yes, that's a view of Pete Millett's LR.

In reading xaudiomanx's posts over the years, I got the impression that at least some of his 20+ phono stages are DIY, like the Millett LR he had built or the Eli Duttman RCA, to name two that I'm aware of. In those cases, there could possibly be more room inside the enclosure to mount the transformers.


 

Simaudio, posted on October 23, 2020 at 10:55:12
Cuernavaca
Audiophile

Posts: 878
Location: NW
Joined: December 23, 2011
 I have a Simaudio Moon 5.3LP, it has 66db gain and can be adjusted for different capacitance levels. Very quiet. First time in the last 20 years I haven't used a step up. The newer version is the 310LP, it also can be adjusted up to 66db gain. They can be found on the used market for relatively cheap.

Thomas
"I've never owned a firearm, but I do have an attack parrot!"

 

RE: Simaudio, posted on October 23, 2020 at 12:01:27
geoff
Audiophile

Posts: 3500
Joined: April 5, 2000
Contributor
  Since: September 10, 2003
 I love my LP5.3

 

Pass alternatives, posted on October 23, 2020 at 12:20:59
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6601
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 If the Pass XP-15 is too pricy then you might consider an earlier model. I believe they have had a continuous string of very good performers.

Many years ago I used a Pass FET 10 phono stage. It was one of the best units i've owned. I am a fan of tubes and no SS nasties there. But you may want to look for a newer model than that.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

Nice (nt), posted on October 23, 2020 at 14:10:01
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007

 

RE: High gain phono stage, posted on October 23, 2020 at 14:24:54
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 That's a bit steep for an old XOno. Mine is 17-years old and they were discontinued shortly after I bought mine. The list price of mine was $4200. I don't remember them ever going for $4600. I paid $2600 for mine brand new and it also has the full-size power supply. I wouldn't pay more than $1200 for an XOno today because it has to be at least 15-years old. Of course, I wouldn't part with mine either because it's still working fine and it sounds just as good as it ever did.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: Don't you already have a SUT?, posted on October 23, 2020 at 14:37:08
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 Yes I do but I am also looking to not have to use an SUT of any kind. I am also getting a head amp from Lounge but I am looking to do without it.

 

RE: High gain phono stage, posted on October 23, 2020 at 14:38:26
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 I contacted him and he never responded. He said he has a sale pending.

 

RE: High gain phono stage, posted on October 23, 2020 at 14:39:12
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 Thanks for the heads up

 

RE: High gain phono stage, posted on October 23, 2020 at 14:40:32
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 I am going to use it. It is an Arthur Loesch circuit but built as a phono only instead of full function. I want to try other stuff as well.

 

RE: The PS Audio Stellar is getting a lot of positive press, posted on October 23, 2020 at 14:44:50
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 Hi(forgot ur name),

I like trying and playing with other things when I can. I have around 20 phono preamps(Arthur Loesch, Pete Millett, Lounge, Gary Pimm, Eli Duttman, and loads other that were either built by me or a friend). I have lots to choose from. But I want the higher gain SS as a trial.

 

RE: That's true, Lew, posted on October 23, 2020 at 14:48:21
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 Really don't want to have to use one particular phono stage. That is why I bought an SUT from Ned Clayton(very reasonably priced) and the head amp from Lounge. I can switch out different phonos.

 

Isn't the content of this post contrary to the basis for the thread?, posted on October 23, 2020 at 15:34:12
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I thought you wanted suggestions for a high gain phono stage so as to avoid using a SUT or head amp. Sorry if I am confused.

 

RE: Isn't the content of this post contrary to the basis for the thread?, posted on October 23, 2020 at 16:19:40
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 I am trying NOT to use an SUT or any step up device if possible but I do own a couple of ways to step up the signal if I am not satisfied with SS. Very simple!

 

RE: High gain phono stage, posted on October 23, 2020 at 17:12:18
mnawaz3@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 502
Joined: March 28, 2002
 i have owned a few Loesch preamps and i was told that the line-stage tube was essential.. apparently, the 2nd tube in Loesch units cant drive the cable. your may want to check with a tech or someone with knowledge with on the Loesch tubes on this.

by the way, i have been long time tube fan but have cautiously made the migration to Solid state phono. the pass phono units are excellent. others: sutherland, loricraft, tom evans, asr . in the future, i might try to snag one of those silly$$$ phono stages. i suspect at the top levels, a top SS phono will have a built in advantage
over a top tube phono stage .

i dont recommend the older SS units. they are not competitive.

 

I get it!, posted on October 23, 2020 at 17:33:34
Cougar
Audiophile

Posts: 4574
Location: SoCal
Joined: June 25, 2001
 You have the SUT and Headamp as insurance policies just in case you don't like the SS Phono Preamp.

I only have ONE Tube Phono preamp with JFET headamp built in it. I also Have ONE Solid State Phono Preamp which also has a built in Headamp. Love them both for what each can do. Right since its summer, I have the Electrocompaniet ECP-1 (Heavily Modified and Upgraded) in the system right and works will with my SUT. I just didn't like the way the head amp sound that ECP-1 came with, Way better with my SUT running into the MM side of the ECP-1.

As it is starting to get colder now, I will be putting in the Musical Paradise MP-P1 Phono preamp.

Actually I will be converting over to all my Tube gear now that summer is over. VTA-120 amp, Transcendent Sound Masterpiece Preamp, Musical Paradise Phono Preamp, along with my Musical Paradise MP-D1 DAC.



 

RE: ICON AUDIO PS3 MKII phono stage ..., posted on October 24, 2020 at 01:16:59
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 MM/MC - MC gain is 72dB (4000x ... as distinct to the standard MC gain of 1000x).)

Andy

 

"I want the higher gain SS as a trial", posted on October 24, 2020 at 05:31:19
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 I don't blame you one bit for wanting to try a high gain SS stage. I realized that my answer was somewhat based on the constraints of my budget, not necessarily yours.

I've been curious about that PS Audio Stellar phono stage after all the good reviews came out, which is why I mentioned it to you. With selectable 60dB, 66dB, and 72dB gain it should work for you, gain wise, but obviously I can't comment on the sound quality, having never heard it.

Good luck with your choice.

 

RE: ICON AUDIO PS3 MKII phono stage ..., posted on October 24, 2020 at 09:11:16
PAR
Audiophile

Posts: 1732
Location: South London, UK
Joined: June 4, 2019
 ...and an incredible phonostage it is . HiFi World magazine's reference phonostage and my own.

However the OP says " I am getting into a MC cartridge and I am looking to avoid using an SUT or a head amp if possible. " The PS3 achieves its gain by using an SUT (100 ohm fixed) for MC albeit built in.

It also comes in two boxes and needs a lot of real estate and is all tube (so at least the latter feature removes the OP's concern about ICs, it doesn't even have a circuit board being all point to point wired).

It is also not exactly cheap by the general standards here especially if the OP is "just getting" into MCs - $4k plus depending upon features chosen. NB: I highly recommend the Designer's Edition with better tubes and Jensen caps, adds £300 here in its UK home so I presume more than just equivalent $ in the US.


"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams

 

RE: "built as a phono only instead of full function" ..., posted on October 24, 2020 at 17:47:44
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 If by "full function" you mean with source selection and volume control then your terms are mis-applied. :-((

A line stage with source selection and volume control ... is a preamp(lifier).

A phono stage takes the input from a cart and applies the appropriate EQ (typically RIAA). This then feeds into a preamp; it may have (but generally doesn't) a volume control.

A preamp may include a built-in phono stage ... iow, one of the inputs is for a cart. It's still a 'preamp', though.

Andy

 

RE: High gain phono stage, posted on October 26, 2020 at 06:47:23
mondial
Audiophile

Posts: 891
Location: S.E. ASIA
Joined: January 14, 2007
 Hi,

May I suggest the ARC REF Phono 2SE , REF Phono 3SE and their all out effort the REF Phono 10 . It has high gain , tube based , w/ variable equalisation ( RIAA , Decca , Columbia ) . Variable loading and Gain , all adjustments can be made at the comfort of your listening chair ( via remote control ) . RCA or XLR output . And it's a superb performer .

Hope this helps ,

Mondial

 

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