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96.232.115.165
Posted on October 20, 2020 at 17:33:48
xaudiomanx
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Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004






of a turntable I built using a Sota Sapphire platter and bearing with the MG-1 tonearm. Waiting for the cartridge I ordered and get it mounted. ART 9AX

 

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Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 03:59:43
John Elison
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Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I'll be looking forward to hearing what you think of the AT-ART9XA. That's the cartridge I would buy if I needed a new one. However, my AT-ART7 is still going strong.

I don't know what motor you're using on your DIY turntable, but if you want to improve performance further, I'd recommend the new three-phase AC synchronous motor system with tachometer speed control produced by SOTA Sound Inventions, LLC. This system was designed by Phoenix Engineering and I'm using a prototype of it on my SOTA Millennia Turntable. It made a very noticeably improvement in clarity and noise reduction.


 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 05:24:34
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 Hi John,

I'm pretty proud of it. Many analogue designers might be able to pick it apart but I like it and I think it sounds good. I just wish the guy from MG-1 would respond to my need of another tonearm wand and collar. But so far, no response!

I am using a 300 rpm VPI motor with the VPI SDS to control it. Seems to keep perfect timing. but if you feel I would do better with the Sota setup I would do it.

But first I want to get my cartridge installed when it gets here.

Thanks for the great response.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 08:24:21
Joe Backer
Audiophile

Posts: 1033
Joined: July 10, 2011
 Considering the price used Falcon/Roadrunners go for, that's a good value. If only I could find a way to fit this setup on my Thorens 124. The table is begging for some speed stability.

 

Is Phoenix Mark Kelly?, posted on October 21, 2020 at 09:15:24
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10459
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 he used to come around here



 

RE: Is Phoenix Mark Kelly?, posted on October 21, 2020 at 09:39:41
John Elison
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Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 No, Bill Carlin is the owner of Phoenix Engineering. It's the company that developed and marketed the Eagle PSU and RoadRunner tachometer if you happen to remember those components. Bill's three-phase motor controller is called the Condor. It never made it to market until SOTA decided to manufacture and market it after I told them how much improvement it made to my SOTA Millennia Vacuum turntable. I was fortunate to be able to buy a prototype from Bill.


 

Mark Kelly is now in the business of making and selling wooden bicycle frames, posted on October 21, 2020 at 09:56:06
Lew
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Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Very beautiful, based on photos, and very expensive.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 10:16:46
John Elison
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Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 There's no question in my mind that SOTA's Eclipse System is better than any single-phase turntable motor. Furthermore, it sells for a very reasonable price. Just look at the price of VPI's Avenger motor and enclosure. It retails for $1250. The motor that comes with SOTA's Eclipse Series is a true industrial motor with a quarter inch shaft and ball-bearings on both ends. It spins smoothly and totally noise free. The motor without enclosure costs $56. What do you think the motor for the Avenger actually costs. I'd be willing to bet the Avenger motor costs less than $30 and the enclosure probably costs less than $50. At any rate, I'll bet the complete Avenger motor and enclosure cost less than $100 and they sell it for $1250. That's absurd in my opinion.

The SOTA Eclipse Series three-phase motor system includes the motor and three-phase controller/amplifier in addition to the RoadRunner tachometer, which provides feedback to the motor controller for speed regulation. It's a three speed system and can also be set for custom speeds in-between about 30-RPM and 80-RPM. At lease my prototype is capable of that sort of speed control. I'm assuming the SOTA Eclipse Series works in a similar manner. Anyway, the price of all of these components is only $1100. Moreover, I'm pretty sure the Eclipse Series three-phase motor will fit into the Avenger motor enclosure.

On the other hand, I think it's a good idea to wait until you get your new cartridge mounted and operating before switching out the motor, but I certainly think a true three-phase motor will outperform a single-phase motor every time. Three-phase motors totally eliminate cogging because they have constant torque. I think you'll probably hear an improvement in performance with SOTA's Eclipse Series. At the very least, you'll know the exact speed your platter is spinning at all times.

Good luck,
John Elison

 

Thanks. Passed it on to my sister-in-law who can't stop pedaling.. nt. , posted on October 21, 2020 at 11:11:16
alaskahiatt
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  Since: November 1, 2005
 nt

 

RE: Is Phoenix Mark Kelly?, posted on October 21, 2020 at 13:13:08
louie3
 Bought one of those outfits from SOTA...quietest turntable motor I have every owned or heard. Made a significant difference for me.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 13:15:34
louie3
 I built/bought a custom VPI-based turntable that started out with a VPI motor...bought the SOTA outfit, have been amazed at the difference the Phoenix/SOTA combo made in the table...so much quieter than the VPI. Well worth the freight if you have plans to keep the table.

 

Purpose of the Cheap Chinese Caliper?, posted on October 21, 2020 at 13:37:34
bare
Audiophile

Posts: 1879
Joined: April 14, 2009
 Can't figure out Why it's in there .

 

VTA., posted on October 21, 2020 at 14:05:54
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32596
Joined: July 14, 2017
 I nearly bought the MG-1. The caliper gives the user a digital readout of the VTA setting so that it can be repeated for each record. User can write the setting on the LP sleeve and set the arm accordingly.
Trans-Fi sold the same caliper as an option on the Terminator Pro.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 15:02:51
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 I am keeping the table. The only thing on it of any value to another is the arm. Is it better than the VPI SDS?

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 15:10:49
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 Hi John,

Thanks for the update and all your knowledge. I will more than likely invest in the Sota system but as I said after I get me cartridge up and running. I don't mind spending the money as long as the end result is what the cost is.

I can honestly say the motor I have is very quiet. I don't hear it especially from the listening spot I sit in. But I will give it a go.

I might need help in setting it up. Would you be able to talk(write) me through it?

Thanks!

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 15:22:48
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 No problem! I'll be happy to help you in any way I can. I doubt you'll need a lot of help, though. It's pretty easy to set up and the instructions are straight forward. However, feel free to send me an email and we can talk on the phone. I think you'll really love the SOTA Eclipse Series Condor three-phase system with tachometer control.

The SDS is really primitive compared to the SOTA system. The SDS has no clue what speed your platter is spinning and it's power stability to the motor doesn't compare to the Condor. I'm simply amazed at the sophistication of the Condor/RoadRunner system. I think you'll be amazed, too.

Best regards,
John Elison

PS. Check out the link below and you can download a lot of important information including the Condor and RoadRunner owner's manuals.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 15:30:41
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 How tall does the motor stand from the top of the pulley?

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 15:32:18
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 You're really peaking my curiosity. I just might buy it soon!

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 15:37:40
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Check out the following link with PDF files of all the important information about the SOTA Eclipse Series components. I haven't looked at all of this information, but I believe it should include the information you are looking for.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 16:02:44
louie3
 Absolutely better, no question...even the folks on the VPI boards say this.

The Phoenix/Sota system actually controls platter speed via a speed sensor on the platter. It actually works.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 17:28:15
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 John,

Can you shoot me a picture of your setup with the Eclipse system in there? I am concerned with the wiring and the application of the disc on the platter and the the unit that monitors the platter speed.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 21, 2020 at 21:57:30
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I can't get a picture of the wiring because it's hidden underneath my turntable plinth. Moreover, my system is a prototype and has one additional component compared to the SOTA system. My system has a separate controller and amplifier whereas those two components are contained in a single box in the new Sota System. The wires are plenty long on my Condor and RoadRunner system. They could easily go around the outside of my plinth if needed. There's plenty of wire.

There are drawings with dimensions of the motor, the magnet and the sensor board on SOTA's Eclipse Series webpage. The magnet sticks onto the underside of the platter and the edge of the sensor board slips underneath the edge of the platter. It requires a space between the platter and the plinth of between 0.195 and 0.215-inches. That's about 13/64 of an inch, which is 0.213-inches. If you don't have enough space the magnet can be stuck to the outside of the platter and the sensor module can be mounted on its side, but that requires some fabrication of a support for the sensor board. If you have 0.2-inches space between your platter and your plinth, you're in good shape.

Did you look at all the drawings on SOTA's Eclipse Series webpage. Here's the link again.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 05:06:20
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 > Considering the price used Falcon/Roadrunners go for, that's a good value.

Just out of curiosity, I'd like to know what an Eagle/RoadRunner is going for these days. I bought one after they were discontinued just in case I ever needed it. It's a 25-watt Eagle with the newest RoadRunner model that includes the timer to keep track of stylus playback hours. I don't want to sell it, but I'm curious to know what it's worth in today's market.

Thanks!
John Elison

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 05:16:20
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 I have enough space between the platter and the plinth that the bearing from Sota allows. I guess I'll have to figure it out but I think I am going to buy the entire Eclipse system after the cartridge is mounted and I hear it. I am going to use an Arthur Loesch (phono only) phono stage. The person that built it for me says it has about 68db of gain so hopefully I don't need an SUT of any kind but if I do I have both a head amp built by Lounge Audio and a Cinemag SUT built by Ned Clayton. What phono do you use?

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 05:47:10
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I'm using a Pass Labs XOno with 70-dB gain unbalanced and 75-dB gain balanced. It works just fine either way with my 0.12-mV AT-ART7. Consequently, I think 68-dB gain will be more than adequate for your 0.2-mV AT-ART9XA. The difference between 0.12-mV and 0.2-mV is 4.4-dB, so you should have no problem whatsoever. Even 65-dB gain would be acceptable, but I wouldn't recommend less than 65-dB gain for optimal performance.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 14:13:09
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 Is there another phono preamp with high gain. The Pas Labs is a bit costly.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 14:49:40
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 I think I just got ripped off for the cartridge. I found one selling for $300 less than list and it turns out it can't be shipped until next week. Luckily it was done through Pay Pal so I might get some kind of satisfaction from there.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 14:56:29
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I don't know of one I'd recommend. I thought you said in one of your posts that you owned 19 or 20 phono stages. Did I remember correctly? If so, you probably know more about phono stages than I do.

At any rate, you don't need any more gain than 68-dB for a 0.2-mV cartridge. That will amplify 0.2-mV to 502-mV. That's plenty! Most moving magnet phono stages have about 40-dB gain, which will amplify a 5-mV MM cartridge to 500-mV. Consequently, 68-dB gain is perfect for a 0.2-mV cartridge. Even a 65-dB gain phono stage is more than adequate for a 0.2-mV cartridge.

Good luck,
John Elison

 

+1, posted on October 22, 2020 at 14:59:29
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 The Phoenix system and now the SOTA Eclipse is MUCH better than the VPI SDS.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 16:59:34
xaudiomanx
Audiophile

Posts: 3647
Joined: August 16, 2004
 I don't have any SS stages except for the Millett and the Lounge and they are both for MM so I would need an SUT which I am trying to avoid.

Al my other stages are 40-45db.

I did just have an Arthur Loesch circuit built and it supposedly has 65-68db of gain so when I get the cartridge I will try it directly into that.

I do know SS is less noise.

 

RE: Nice looking turntable..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 19:59:33
Joe Backer
Audiophile

Posts: 1033
Joined: July 10, 2011
 Here's a link to some recent sales


https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=eagle+roadrunner

 

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