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WTF ????

71.235.57.211
Posted on April 21, 2017 at 16:31:14
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13134
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 My apologies for it having been far too long between installments of "WTF" (Which Turntable Friday).

The rules are simple ...

1. Below are two turntables. Pick one... its free !
2. You can't sell it. This will be your one, only and last turntable.
3. No substitutions of any kind.
4. Its just pretend, just for fun, so play along and have some fun.

Number One

Your first choice is the most expensive turntable in the world, the Derenville VPM-20110-1

This technological marvel includes the following features...

-Massive chassis (60 kg) from Corian - with integrated air spring feet.
-Plate plate made of 3 materials - weight 20.5 kg stored on magnets.
-Effective shielding by specially arranged Mu metal elements.
-Speed ​​detection with a tachoring (24,000 pulses / revolution)
-Drive via two frequency-controlled motors with Hall sensors.
-Tangential-tonearm - cardanic - longitudinally and height-adjustable.
-Tracking angle verification and measurement by means of laser measuring system.
-Fine adjustment of the scanning system in the zero path also with laser.
-Precision linear unit powered by a specially developed
-Linear motor - equipped with an absolute position measuring system.
-Permanently traveling HD TV camera and integrated HD TV monitor.
-Integrated digital tone balance under the parking position of the pickup.
-Scanner system for the detection of the empty slots - Title selection via Smartphone.
-W-Lan Internet connection for problem-free software updates and diagnoses.
-Balanced audio output on XLR jacks. (Studiostandart)
-S video output and BNC output of the HD TV camera signal.
-All necessary parameters such as system operating hours, setpoint and actual speeds, feed and position of the linear unit, air pressure in the air spring feet etc. can be called up at any time on the touchscreen.

Number Two

Your second choice is the Yamaha GT-2000

This technological marvel plays records and has a dust cover.

-----------

For me, this is perhaps the easiest WTF I've ever posted.

I'll take #2.

I like turntables that look like a turntable and have as few buttons, gizmos, gadgets, doohickeys and widgets as possible.

Its the Yamaha for me. No contest.

How about you ?

Its free !

Pick one and please tell us why you made your decision.

Thanks folks... and have a great weekend !

Dean.

PS - My thanks to Ed for the inspiration to get off my butt and finally start a thread.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

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    ...
Glad your back...hope you keep doing this. , posted on April 21, 2017 at 16:47:23
slapshot
Audiophile

Posts: 2248
Joined: January 9, 2006
 I'd pick the Yamaha in a second; it has the classic look I like. I would think the Derenville is kind of like owning a Bugatti Veyron, where the oil changes cost $21,000. I can't even afford to look at the Dernville, not that I would really want to as I think it is rather ugly.

 

As a firm believer in Murphy's law I will pick #2. nt, posted on April 21, 2017 at 17:31:19
dancingseamonkey
Audiophile

Posts: 3455
Location: New Orleans, birth place of jazz.
Joined: May 1, 2006
Contributor
  Since: November 24, 2009
 Nt


"Trying is the first step towards failure."
Homer Simpson

 

RE: inspiration, posted on April 21, 2017 at 17:41:39
user510
 Isn't it amazing how much inspiration can be gathered from a single photo?

I'm guessing it is safe to presume you'll have 100% respondents in favor of #2. Reguardless of how rediculous that #1 is, the Yamaha GT 2000 looks very attractive to me. I'd love to have one of those. Thanks for the offer. Can I pick it up tomorrow?

-Steve

 

It looks like a portable, posted on April 21, 2017 at 18:00:45
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15168
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 Even comes with it's own suitcase, albeit a rather large suitcase.

 

#2; at least I can figure out how to operate it; I think! )MT(, posted on April 21, 2017 at 18:01:29
J. S. Bach
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Posts: 9578
Location: Chester, SC
Joined: November 28, 2001
Contributor
  Since: June 29, 2004

Later Gator,
Dave
Find more about Weather in Chester, SC

 

RE: WTF ????, posted on April 21, 2017 at 19:32:11
valvesonly
Audiophile

Posts: 755
Location: Ontario
Joined: May 27, 2005
 GT2000 has a great reputation and I can afford to fix it, upgrade tonearm (probably wouldn't).

Alternative sounds wonderful, but at that cost any repair is probably x3. On a lifetime decision no.2 is a no brainer.
.
must..NOT..resist..."upgraditis"

 

RE: WTF ????, posted on April 21, 2017 at 19:42:34
DRam
Audiophile

Posts: 1309
Location: Montana
Joined: July 30, 2005
 #2 -based on KISS. #1 is a complex nightmare just waiting to fail. Not only that, #2 looks like a TT should look.

 

RE: WTF ????, posted on April 22, 2017 at 00:00:44
BillyBenBilly
Audiophile

Posts: 1425
Location: New Mexico
Joined: July 31, 2003
 Been away for a while. I have loved the WTF posts. Glad to see them again. Like most of you, I'll take #2. The other one has too much extraneous stuff that is bound to break and will cost a fortune to fix.

 

Neither would tempt me to give up my AR-XA, nt, posted on April 22, 2017 at 05:12:02
briggs
Audiophile

Posts: 1674
Location: Connecticut
Joined: April 16, 2002
 nt

 

As the happy owner of a Yamaha already, posted on April 22, 2017 at 05:41:59
Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21654
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004



no doubt which one I'd choose
----------------------

"E Burres Stigano?"


 

GT-2000 All The Way!! , posted on April 22, 2017 at 07:44:30
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 No contest. In 30 years the GT will still be playing records while that crazy contraption will need to be stripped of parts which are no longer able to be repaired...for the 500th time.

 

If its my last and only TT..., posted on April 22, 2017 at 08:21:39
Ogsarg
Audiophile

Posts: 640
Location: Central Coast, CA
Joined: October 19, 2004
 ...I'd have to go with the Yamaha just because it is likely to last longer and actually be repairable. That other monstrosity will stop working in 2 years and you'd have to fly in its creator, Dr. Frankenstein, to fix it.

 

#1 looks exhausting., posted on April 22, 2017 at 08:33:44
Meatface
Audiophile

Posts: 189
Joined: November 26, 2011
 With that much stuff, can you tell what song is playing?
#2 is the winner.

 

RE: All that fine technology..., posted on April 22, 2017 at 08:44:52
mr.bear
Audiophile

Posts: 4167
Joined: November 13, 2001
 to play your Bonzo Dog Band LP's... Ahhh- it's a weird hobby.

 

Derenville VPM-20110-1 Observations, posted on April 22, 2017 at 08:58:09
mr.bear
Audiophile

Posts: 4167
Joined: November 13, 2001
 Manfred says the guy is cool, he's cool. But, if his wild "design study" worked beautifully, you'd have spent the last $645,000 dollars of your turntable budget to achieve the last .1% marginal performance improvement.
Seems a poor investment versus roughly 25,000 new LP's or 80,000 fine used LP's.

 

RE: WTF ????, posted on April 22, 2017 at 09:04:25
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 This is kind of like one of those Lady or the Tiger questions. No one among us has the chutzpah to pick #1. For all we know, #1 may have been an April Fool's joke, especially with the quoted price of $650,000!!! I really doubt it's for real.

 

The exclusive US dealer is ..., posted on April 22, 2017 at 09:17:09
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13134
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 ...in the link below.

Dean.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

Yamaha FT-2000, posted on April 22, 2017 at 09:51:41
blues4ever
Audiophile

Posts: 1004
Location: New Mexico
Joined: May 28, 2003
Contributor
  Since: June 22, 2010
 As you say Dean, it's no contest. I would choose it for the same reason: simplicity. Fits my simple mind.
For perfect tone use Columbia Needles
For Best results use Victor Needles
For best results use OKEH Needles

 

RE: WTF ????, posted on April 22, 2017 at 12:25:19
digepix
 The Derenville, to sell it. Even if I could sell it for 1% of it's original cost I'd be ahead of the game.

 

By the way...THAT PLINTH!, posted on April 22, 2017 at 13:21:01
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 On the Yamaha is sweeeeeeeeeeeeet! I want one for my GT-2000!



ummm when I finally get one.

 

RE: By the way...THAT PLINTH!, posted on April 22, 2017 at 13:37:38
slapshot
Audiophile

Posts: 2248
Joined: January 9, 2006
 Do you mean the cast-iron base, otherwise known as the anchor? It is a nice add on.

It should be noted that much of the GT-2000 owes its existence to Micro Seiki.

 

And here's a GT-2000x, posted on April 22, 2017 at 13:41:36
slapshot
Audiophile

Posts: 2248
Joined: January 9, 2006
 Pretty.

 

If the price is for real, it should have been an April Fool's joke, posted on April 22, 2017 at 17:23:03
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 nt

 

also #2, but..., posted on April 23, 2017 at 02:33:20
rindolini
Audiophile

Posts: 584
Location: Munich, Bavaria
Joined: August 9, 2007
 I'd also prefer the visual appearance of the Yamaha, no doubt. I wouldn't really have enough space for that either, though - so I'd pick neither of these two.

Some comments, though: First, #1 was intended as a design study only. And then, while I'll freely admit, that I also find it rather ugly, I still have quite a bit of respect for Rainer's creation (as well as for Rainer himself, as he's a nice and polite guy...), 'cause unlike many other high-end turntables, which often enough merely represent what we over here would call a Materialschlacht (battle of material), Rainer's approach combines that kind of mechanical overengineering with quite a bit of high-tech electronics. So in my view it would really deserve the label "high end" today, while many other current high-end designs appear rather lame to me due to being not exactly innovative.

But in that context I'd have to add that I'd also regard for example a Braun PS550, a Philips AF977 or a Technics SL-10 as more innovative than quite a few current high-end designs. Although it's even more of a pity that there's so little smart use of electronics in the more affordable price ranges today, in which the budget for mechanical overkill is way more limited (even more so, as mechanics nowadays are more costly than electronics).

I mean, heck, Philips already demonstrated with their DirectControl family, that it is possible to offer affordable belt-drive models that deliver very low wow & flutter with a ridiculously light platter in combination with a smart speed control with actual platter-speed sensing, back in 1978. Fast forward not quite 40 years - what do we get now? Comparatively spartanic belt-drive designs with hardly any comfort functions, let alone speed controls with actual platter-speed sensing. Even convenient speed-switching often enough has become an optional extra... *sigh*

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

#2...nt, posted on April 23, 2017 at 07:28:18
EdAInWestOC
Audiophile

Posts: 6828
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA
Joined: December 18, 2003
 nt
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof

 

Hi, Manfred..., posted on April 23, 2017 at 08:15:51
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 You evidently know something about turntable #1. It occurred to me that for such an all-out effort, there must be a mechanism for centering the LP, as seen in the Nakamichi turntables of yore. For my $650,000, I want that feature. Is such a feature incorporated into #1? Because, after you've coughed up maybe 500,000 Euros, you're still stuck with all those very slightly off-center LPs.

Otherwise, I'll go off and buy a Walker Audio Proscenium (for one example of a fine but very expensive turntable) and a Ferrari 458 and a beach house on an island in the Pacific.

 

Neither really -nt, posted on April 23, 2017 at 13:31:33
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 .

 

Amazing willpower !! ..., posted on April 23, 2017 at 14:25:49
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13134
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 When I'm offered a turntable for free, I take it.

Then again, I have zero willpower... especially for free stuff... even if its make believe free stuff.

Dean.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

RE: WTF ????, posted on April 23, 2017 at 17:32:10
hifipaul
Audiophile

Posts: 735
Location: NY
Joined: December 22, 2008
I'll go for the VPM. I already have 2 simple, heavy, and good, home-brew TTs. I'd be happy to have a gizmo laden super-machine. It's perfect for making my Denon 103 sing.

 

I'll pick #1 for sure, posted on April 23, 2017 at 17:43:11
jeromelang
Audiophile

Posts: 2303
Joined: February 2, 2001

Take this thing out and let it rip

 

RE: Hi, Manfred..., posted on April 23, 2017 at 20:54:35
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 > Because, after you've coughed up maybe 500,000 Euros, you're still stuck with all those very slightly off-center LPs.>

They still sound good, though. I've been playing those slightly off-center LPs for many years and they still sound good to me.

 

RE: WTF ????, posted on April 23, 2017 at 21:20:54
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I'll take number 1 even thought it's platter does not have direct-drive or vacuum hold-down. In other words, it's really not worth much but since it's free, I'll take it.

The most sophisticated turntable I've ever seen is the Rockport Sirius III. Not only does its plinth float on air, its platter also floats on an air bearing and incorporates direct drive with vacuum hold-down for the LP. It has an air bearing linear tracking tonearm, too. I don't think there has ever been a better turntable than the Rockport Sirius III and its price tag was a mere $75,000.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

I have to say my experience is the same.., posted on April 24, 2017 at 10:35:03
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Moreover, it is a rare occasion when I can visually detect that an LP is off-center, although that is likely more a function of my visual acuity than it is an assessment of LP quality. But for $650K, you've gotta get some feature that most other turntables don't have. Gosh darnit!

 

RE: I have to say my experience is the same.., posted on April 24, 2017 at 12:31:36
slapshot
Audiophile

Posts: 2248
Joined: January 9, 2006
 For that money, I would expect it to play both sides of a record without having to turn it over! :)

 

Hi Lew! (RE: Hi, Manfred...), posted on April 24, 2017 at 22:35:31
rindolini
Audiophile

Posts: 584
Location: Munich, Bavaria
Joined: August 9, 2007
 Sorry, but no, it doesn't feature auto-centering. Instead it constantly monitors the arm (via laser distance measurement) and moves it accordingly, so the tracking error angle is kept within +/- 0.02°. Iirc, Rainer also mentioned that it would work with inside-out cuts, too.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini


 

To the degree that any LP is off-center,..., posted on April 25, 2017 at 06:54:08
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 wouldn't that correction device be driven a bit crazy, trying to keep up with the LPs eccentricity? Actually, now I am wondering how the Schroeder LT tonearm reacts to LPs with this issue.

Maybe there is no issue; I have to think about it.

 

RE: To the degree that any LP is off-center,..., posted on April 25, 2017 at 19:25:04
rindolini
Audiophile

Posts: 584
Location: Munich, Bavaria
Joined: August 9, 2007
 Lew: I don't think it cares. I.e., even with a perfectly centered record the arm drive would do ca. 2000 microsteps per revolution, so one could say that it's busy anyway.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

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