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Columbia Pressings How to find Best? Do you find 6 Eye special?

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Posted on March 23, 2017 at 19:58:54
jk
Audiophile

Posts: 366
Joined: October 4, 1999
 Yesterday I read an article by M. Fremmer about Columbia pressings. He focused on stamper numbers and how to use them to ID first stampers. It is a confusing matrix. But I thougt to myself, there must be other things to look for on Columbia records, think about label designs. Do they indicate a period of time where quality was paramount? Mike's article didn't discuss Label designs at all.

Take RCA for example. Show me a Black Label RCA and I'm interested. Shaded Dog Label, yes but less so. Dynagroove label and I'll walk away.

It strikes me that there must be some indicators for Columbia records that I should look for, I just don't know them yet. I've heard about "Six Eye" records for years from stores, and other audiophiles. TTYTT, I have found no consistent evidence of superior sound just because an album is a 6 eye.

Like I said earlier, RCA Black Labels are likely to be amazing (especially if they are 1s first stamper); Island Pink Labels are famous.

What, if anything, should one look for on a Columbia label that tells them it is likely to be a knock your socks off experience?

Am I off target with my experience of Six Eye Columbia albums? They don't ever seem to be anything special.

Well I'd like to learn so I'm asking. THanks, John

 

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RE: I'm happy to take Mikey's word on matrix decoding...., posted on March 23, 2017 at 20:21:12
user510
 ...but when it comes to the quality of sound, I believe it was really up to the individual producer for the particular album in question. For instance, Teo Macero tended to produce excellent sounding Lps for his artists.

As to Columbia re-issues, I've found that later pressings of an earlier album tend to have very close quality to the original. And this, I have found to be true for different genre's. jazz and rock in particular.

If there is a complaint against Columbia albums, it tends to be with their classical records. Not because the sound is sub-standard. Because the sound does not compare to other labels like London/Decca, Phillips, etc. This, again, I suspect has much to do with the producer involved.

re: 6-eye, 2-eye, orange. Their pressing quality never seemed to decline. Always good. It was the production that mattered.

-Steve

 

RE: I'm happy to take Mikey's word on matrix decoding...., posted on March 23, 2017 at 22:12:38
jk
Audiophile

Posts: 366
Joined: October 4, 1999
 Thanks Steve. Btw I should have relayed what I learned about pressing numbering for Columbia. Each album was pressed with 6 masters. A & B went to 1 location to be produced; C & D to processing plant at another location; E & F to the third. The generation of the master is in the first numeral. 1a is forster pressing at New York. 1C is also 1st pressing but stamped at St Louis (or wherever that plant was.

 

Could this help?, posted on March 25, 2017 at 12:12:06
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6605
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 Years ago I bought a book at a local hi-end store which also offers a large selection of new and used records. It is titled "The Record Label Guide for Domestic LPs", compiled by Joe Lindsay, published by BIODISC. My copy is from 1993.

The book includes photos (b&w) of record labels along with a brief written description plus dates and LP #s from beginning to end for each variation.

Looking at your Columbia "Six-Eye" example, the book defines five different variations for those for pop and jazz, plus mention of the grey label versions for the Masterworks Series for classical, soundtracks, and shows.

I've found that helpful over the years but I believe there are now several online sites offering color photos of label variations such as the attached link, however they may not include details like dates and #s.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

RE: Could this help?, posted on March 26, 2017 at 10:20:42
jk
Audiophile

Posts: 366
Joined: October 4, 1999
 Wow, great link, thank you. I forgot about those grey masterworks. I have a few in my collection.

I was hoping for a primer on Columbia labels and associated sound quality experience. On a phone so must break into 2 posts.

 

RE: Could this help? Part 2, posted on March 26, 2017 at 10:26:58
jk
Audiophile

Posts: 366
Joined: October 4, 1999
 For some reason on this site the post message button gets overlaid by text. RCA records have distinct levels of sound quality by label. Black label is my favorite by far, within that stamper # culls the best. Everyone wants a pink island label Tea for the tiller man. This all started cause folks used to trumpet 6 eye. Never saw anything special about them so was wondering if others do or look 4 othr

 

RE: Columbia Pressings How to find Best? Do you find 6 Eye special?, posted on March 26, 2017 at 12:08:38
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 The 6-eye pressings have always sounded best to me, followed by the 2-eye and then the orange label, but if the music is good, any of the above will do. There is something about the pressings after the orange labels that I am not fond of, but will still buy if I like the music. Thats what my ears tell me. I have some red label 2-eye rock albums that I really like the sound. Santana's first album Santana, Janis Joplin's (Big Brother and the Holding Company) Cheap Thrills and a number of Simon and Garfinkel albums come to mind.

Dave

 

I should have added, posted on March 26, 2017 at 12:31:25
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6605
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 the hardcopy book does not address sound quality. But clarifying label variations is very good.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

Marginally-warmer sound. Still generally mediocre recordings compared to Decca. But then, Columbia signed Bruno Walter, posted on March 26, 2017 at 14:08:35
jdaniel@jps.net
 If you're interested in Columbia's Classical Lps because of their stable of artists:

High Definition Tape Transfers, HDTT, offers high resolution PCM and DSD copied from Columbia reel to reel tapes. The tapes are mostly commercial though some may be radio station issues. Whatever the source, I've been acquiring their Walter recordings and I'm thrilled with the quality, which so far has been vastly better than the records, which I know well. Sound is more transparent, more lively and remains "warm," by Columbia standards. They offer to send out a DVD-A disc or you can download.

 

RE: Marginally-warmer sound. Still generally mediocre recordings compared to Decca. But then, Columbia signed Bruno Wa, posted on March 27, 2017 at 07:46:59
jk
Audiophile

Posts: 366
Joined: October 4, 1999
 Thanks jdaniel

 

RE: The trouble with Dynagroove, posted on March 28, 2017 at 17:20:14
desertorganist
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: May 31, 2007
 The trouble with RCA's Dynagroove is that the end result that went to the consumer was so variable. Now, my experience is with Red Seal. Some of the very earliest Dynagrooves were incredibly compressed in their dynamics. But I have a copy of "Madama Butterfly" that was among the earliest Dynagroove releases, and it sounds splendid. Maybe RCA didn't want to alienate opera lovers? It does seem to me that RCA backed off rather quickly on some of the Dynagroove processing, because after about 1965 or so, most Red Seal releases were sounding very good indeed, with impressive dynamics and clean, transparent sound. So if they're performances I want, I go for them.

 

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