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Wow, now I understand--Fulton FMI 80

24.220.96.85
Posted on October 1, 2010 at 14:25:37
David Lawrence
Audiophile

Posts: 315
Location: North Dakota
Joined: April 23, 2007
 I just snagged a couple of these from Ebay, and have been listening for a few minutes. Since high school in the 70's I have been reading about how good these are supposed to be, but never heard or even saw a pair of any Fultons. I didn't need new speakers, but checked for these occasionally on Ebay. Hooking them up, I wondered whether I would be disappointed.

I have been trying them on some nice SE 300 b amps, and they really are incredible little speakers. Such a transparent but thoroughly natural and musical sound. From what I have heard, their midrange is about in the league of top class speakers such as the Quad ESL57's (which I used to have), and PHY-HP KM30SAG (which I still do have). They seem about as good at piano as the Phy-hp. They don't have the bass of more heavy duty speakers, but what they have seems natural and well-controlled. The highs seem extended enough for me, though some speakers will beat them in that.

Anyway, these are worth pursuing if one has the opportunity. I read somewhere that the woofers and double cone tweeters (that's the version I have) are supposed to be alnico. For the future, does anyone know whether replacement drivers are available? I wonder if anybody is still following a similar formula, or whether they could be cloned (for one's own use)?

David

 

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I remember those, posted on October 1, 2010 at 16:12:11
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 I used to hear them at a hi-fi store I frequented in the mid 1970's. I opted for pair of Dahlquist DQ-10 instead, but the Fulton FMI 80 was a very musical speaker.

Congratulations!

 

Fulton FMI 80, posted on October 1, 2010 at 16:34:37
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6604
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 We had a dealer near by in the '70s so I heard them several times. In fact I helped a secretary at work put together a nice little system with the 80s and a HK 430 receiver (recommended by Fulton hisself).

Since you've read about them you likely know they could be played as stand-alones (as you are doing), with an add-on woofer pair (to fill out that bass), or as the mid-range portion of the Fulton J System with larger woofer and electrostatic (I think) tweeters. Gordon Holt rated the J as his class A system recommendation at the time in Stereophile. You might find reviews in their archives if interested.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

RE: Fulton FMI 80, posted on October 1, 2010 at 17:35:41
JJ Triode
Audiophile

Posts: 716
Location: Northwest
Joined: December 2, 2004
 You are correct that the J-Modular used an electrostatic tweeter, an RTR ESR-6 modified by Fulton to a higher crossover point (about 5 kHz.) To this day I use these tweeters, with FMI-100's underneath. I have not had any trouble with either for many years.

To answer the OP, I doubt that close replacement drivers can be found, but surrounds and possibly cones could probably be replaced, especially on the woofers.

 

I also had DQ-10's back in the day..., posted on October 1, 2010 at 17:40:17
JJ Triode
Audiophile

Posts: 716
Location: Northwest
Joined: December 2, 2004
 ...and sold them after hearing a pair of FMI-80's in my system. The Dahlquist did some interesting imaging tricks, but the Fultons were just more natural and transparent, not to mention a big difference in efficiency (<80 dB for the DQ-10 vs. about 87-89 dB for the smaller Fultons.)

 

RE: Wow, now I understand--Fulton FMI 80, posted on October 1, 2010 at 18:31:43
David Lawrence
Audiophile

Posts: 315
Location: North Dakota
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Thanks a lot for your views. I plan to keep these for the long haul, and will enjoy them for a while in my office with a Stereo 70. Regarding the possibility of working them into the center of a big system, I wonder if I could try something modest but along the lines of the J Modular. For example, could I try ribbon super-tweeters above 5K or whatever, along with a generic mono subwoofer? In that case, would I run crossovers only for the subwoofer and the tweeters and run the Fultons full range, or would it be better to use low and hi pass crossovers for the Fultons? What would be the best frequency and slope for a super-tweeter? Any ideas?

David

 

RE: Wow, now I understand--Fulton FMI 80, posted on October 1, 2010 at 21:02:58
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4309
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 Gordon loved the FMI 80. He thought it sounded like music, not hi fi. He loved the earlier single tweeter version better.

There were zillions of FMI J versions. Gordon gave one a review where he called it so good it would be the best for ages. I warned him not to do that, just to say it was perfect.

In some ways Fulton was a genius. His ear was astounding. Find some of his recordings. They are stunning in balance, spatial character, detail, etc. Unfortunately he was alays recording high scholl groups, etc. not the orchestras his talent desrved. His ear showed up in his speakers. They were cheap parts and the J was a large speaker that was a combination of lots of drivers of different characteristics and yet he made it work for large scale pieces and large or small rooms. He truly made a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

By the way, J stood for junior. I asked him if there was an even larger S. But it was only in his mind.

And we shouldn't forget he was one of the very first tweekers with the Fulton record mat and Fulton interconnects and speaker cables. Who can forget the Fulton Gold cables that you could use for jumping a car. And in the mid 70s they totally shocked us with a price of about $250 for two 30 foot cables. Isn't that amusing now? I still use a set he gave me.

 

RE: Wow, now I understand--Fulton FMI 80, posted on October 1, 2010 at 21:08:58
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
Hi David
There was a speaker called a Fulton model J, and it used the RTR 6 electrostatic tweeters you see below,and a super duper sub on each one with the FMI-80s in the center.These speakers were rated down to 5hz.They had a 12 and a 10 in woofer these huge cabinets, with the 10 firing downward.This is one of the best sounding multi-driver setups I have heard to this day. Bob fulton was the one that knew how to set them up and it was just fantastic. I heard four going at once with a modded phase linear 400,and a GAS Ampzilla 2a thru an ARC EC2 crossover.Its the thing that got me started in high end audio.


"
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters?, posted on October 2, 2010 at 07:15:19
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 Way back when, I was using stacked Infinity 2000A speakers, each of which has four of those RTR tweeters. Came time to sell them, and I discovered that most of the RTR units were dead. I couldn't tell a live one from a dead one by looking at it and just assumed they were not repairable. Are they?

 

Fulton's genius, posted on October 2, 2010 at 09:28:24
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6604
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 In addition to his audio component pursuits, I read someplace that Bob Fulton designed brass instrument mouthpieces. So I ask a friend in my alumni club who I knew to be a trumpet player if he'd ever heard of Fulton? To my surprise my friend said THAT was the very mouthpiece he used!

Anyway, there are many amusing stories about Fulton audio products. One was his mystery amp developed after the Fulton J which was hidden inside a large shipping trunk. It was his own design and only the AC cable and his Gold "jumper cable" speaker wire could be seen. Another was the preamp he helped design for use with a Shure V-15 mark-something with a conical stylus. This was at a time when conicals had gone out of favor (with most everyone except J Gordon) and Shures had been replaced by moving coils by "serious" hobbyists. Then there was the Fulton wire. In addition to the heavier gauge speaker wires he became famous for, he had a theory that specific lengths of speaker or interconnect should be used. Thus he recommended picking one of his standard lengths, even if it didn't match a customer's distance between components.

Regarding his ear, he apparently heard sound as color and developed a chart assigning a different color to each instrument in a symphony orchestra. Thus he would say something like, "that trombone does not sound orange enough." I had a copy of that chart at one time but can no longer find it.

It would have been very interesting to see where his designs went had he lived longer.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

RE: Fulton's genius, posted on October 2, 2010 at 16:16:03
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4309
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 I was at Gordon's when he had the foot locker amp.

You're correct about the length. I think the module was a bit over 14 feet. And he got it by using a test input(I have no idea what) and the length was a factor of the test signal wave length.

He also assigned colors to sound. And a friend of mine, who liked him a lot, got on his extra good size when he heard Bob and an assitstant arguing over the color of the sound at an 80s CES. My friend went in the room and when Bob asked him about the sound he told him it had the color Bob argued for.

I knew him slightly and he was always so pleasant to speak with. I miss him.

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters?, posted on October 2, 2010 at 20:56:06
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Dave
Its usually a bias diode or a capacitor or maybe the output transformer.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters?, posted on October 3, 2010 at 05:34:52
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 I'm not clear on why the tweeters would fail individually. I remember one 2000A speaker where just a single RTR tweeter continued to work and the other three were silent, but you had to put an ear right next to them to detect this.

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters?, posted on October 3, 2010 at 07:24:49
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 2438
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 The 2000A! I remember those with such mixed feelings. After hearing a set right after they came out I bought a pair that lasted about 2 weeks. The dealer exchanged them and the replaced pair last no longer. The dealer swore I was improperly using them with some amp way underpowered or over powered or the amp was unstable. I had to remind him I was using a pair of Marantz 9s in triode mode producing 35 watts per amp before he backed off. Every owner of 2000As I ever ran into had similar experiences as apparently Infinity cut corners on the pwer supply design and components. Their fix was to discontinue the 2000A sadly as when they worked, they sounded every bit as good and better than many of the JansZen systems I owned at the time.

Hope you get yours back up and running.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters?, posted on October 3, 2010 at 07:36:42
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 Fear not! I haven't had 2000As for 25-odd years. I do remember them more fondly than you do (or I wouldn't have bought two pairs), even did an upgrade -- mostly Mortite along the inner edges -- from DKL Labs of Silver Spring, MD. But I did get a jolt from finding that all those ESL tweeters had gradually quit working :-)

 

RE: Wow, now I understand--Fulton FMI 80, posted on October 3, 2010 at 11:32:55
Bold Eagle
Audiophile

Posts: 6936
Location: America's Heartland
Joined: May 27, 2001
 Nice post.

I first heard Fultons at a computer trade show in McCormack Place in Chicago in the very early '80's. This one stand had just amazing sound, so I took the time to find out what they were using. Four Fultons (100's, I think) driven by a couple of Phase linear 400's and a Crown tape deck. The sense of clarity and hearing back through the system to the live performance was uncanny. One of those rare experiences that stick with you.

Jerry

 

RE: Wow, now I understand--Fulton FMI 80, posted on October 3, 2010 at 13:28:48
David Lawrence
Audiophile

Posts: 315
Location: North Dakota
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Well, I have listened to them more, and they continue to impress me. Now I have them in the office system, and they are light years ahead of the very good Clements bookshelves I had been using. The combination of great clarity and beautiful tone really makes one want to keep on listening to them. Thanks again for all the info.
David

 

RE: Wow, now I understand--Fulton FMI 80, posted on October 3, 2010 at 14:30:06
JJ Triode
Audiophile

Posts: 716
Location: Northwest
Joined: December 2, 2004
 The Stereo 70 is an excellent amp to drive the 80s. As long as you use that, I don't think you need to unload the low end of the 80s from the amp with a line-level high pass. That would make more sense if you wanted to use, say, a 300B SET.

As for trying to replicate the performance of a J-modular, I would say multiamping (or at least biamping on the bass end) would be the way to go, instead of trying to use a single amp and passive speaker-level crossovers as Fulton did (it ate a lot of efficiency.) I'd say the subwoofers would be more important as the 80 has nice high-end extension when stand-mounted vertically about 2.5-3 feet off the floor, and hardly needs a supertweeter. For the subs, I would suggest going stereo, and using acoustic suspension rather than bass reflex subs if you can find them. Fulton always used only sealed bass enclosures AFAIK.

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters?, posted on October 4, 2010 at 11:14:05
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I remeber DKL well (RIP Lance). The aslo did Rabco arms. That is where I first heard Vandersteen, JR,Pyramind, VSP, FR and Conrad Johnson.

Dave

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters?, posted on October 4, 2010 at 12:24:01
David Lawrence
Audiophile

Posts: 315
Location: North Dakota
Joined: April 23, 2007
 I also used to visit there when in high school and a bit later. Learned about Beveridge speakers (which I never heard), Mirage, Grace cartridges, Kenwood DD turntables, Amber amplifiers, Spica speakers, etc. David

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters?, posted on October 4, 2010 at 13:24:06
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 That is right, they were a Spica and Grace dealer. I remeber the Kenwood talbe with a FR arm and cartridge. It sounded quite good.

Dave

 

RE: Wow, now I understand--Fulton FMI 80, posted on October 4, 2010 at 14:39:39
Qman


 
I picked-up a pair of Nuance's over the summer. 10" woofer, 5" mid and 2 of the Peerless tweeters per speaker. Can't find much about them on the web. Really nice mid-range and totally fatigue free sound. Sounds best with tubes so far. I'll try posting some pics later.

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters?, posted on October 4, 2010 at 17:51:46
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 I have the same problem on my Janszen I-130s. There is a way to put new mylar in and coat them with a graphite solution. I have 3 out of five inoperative 5in by 5 in panels.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters?, posted on October 5, 2010 at 10:25:12
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 You could try the link below. There is also The Electrostatic Loudspeaker Design Cookbook (ISBN 978-1-882580-00-2) by Roger Sanders. It looks like there is a lot of info on the web. It might be easier than you think.

Dave

 

RE: Wow, now I understand--Fulton FMI 80, posted on October 5, 2010 at 20:48:41
docw
Audiophile

Posts: 8115
Location: So. California
Joined: July 23, 2004
Contributor
  Since: November 29, 2004
 see my pair in my pics, using now in library 2nd system with Mac MA 5100, soon get tubes out.

a nice lurker here sold them to me for low, bottom w some superficial scratches only.

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters?, posted on February 12, 2011 at 17:55:49
335
Audiophile

Posts: 9
Location: Stockholm
Joined: February 12, 2011
 Hi,

I'm posting a bit late but anyway.
I have very very bad personal experience of Reromanus.
I sent a pair of Beveridge Mod 5 panels for repair to Reromanus but it to one big mess. First they rebuilt the panels to a constant charge type like Quad Esl's.
I had to send the panels back and the next time I received them the panels didn't work, they had a popping, charging noise, still doesn't work.
I asked for a refund but I didn't receive anything.
All in all it took 22 months and I'm very dissapointed with Reromanus.

I posted the whole story yesterday on a German forum if anyone wants to read.

http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-225-931.html

335

 

RE: Fulton's genius, posted on March 18, 2011 at 22:32:40
martyrl


 
I heard that system at Pro-Musica in Champaign-Urbana: Fulton J's driven by 2 Audio Research D76, SP3 and an ERA turntable with Grace 707 (I think) and Shure Type III-G (conical). I was a poor college student but was able to pull together enough to buy a ST-70, PAT-3, Fulton 100s and Connoisseur table. Still use the dynaco am & preamp (going on 30years!) and still have the FMI 100's - but the Peerless tweeters tend to buzz (was always a problem - had to replace them numerous times over the years - have some in a box somewhere)) and I'm sure by now the bass surrounds have deteriorated.

 

Aha, but you've likely never heard a pair of Audiosphere Model 2's, posted on March 19, 2011 at 02:32:20
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
 with just one Coral Flat 5 wide range driver (5" no whizzer).

SFA -BASS - of course but a poor man's 57 certainly. Better from upper bass into the treble.

Made here near Canberra in Australia in the 1970's. John Dunlavy liked both models of 'spheres I owned, when he was here for a while.

I'll be using a pr in a new 3-way set up soon.

See HE forum.

Heard the Fultons in USA once. Simple is GOOD!






Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: Aha, but you've likely never heard a pair of Audiosphere Model 2's, posted on March 19, 2011 at 07:48:14
David Lawrence
Audiophile

Posts: 315
Location: North Dakota
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Interesting, that's something to look for. Did they sell them in the U.S.?
David

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters? Lance is still with us., posted on September 11, 2013 at 14:15:35
richduffler@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Balto. Md.
Joined: March 16, 2012
 Hey Dave, maybe you were joking but Lance is still with us. Not much into audio anymore.Dean was the (silent) partner.( D). Ken was with Polk audio last time I heard. (K) and Lance is retired from SSA.( L).

 

Pro Musica - Steve and Ray, posted on May 19, 2017 at 10:42:04
rfrewert
Audiophile

Posts: 1
Location: N. Nevada
Joined: May 19, 2017
 I have been trying to re-connect with Steve and Ray from Pro Musica in Urbana, IL (Univ. of IL). I was amazed by their various Fulton systems, and over time had them tweak my Stereo 70, PAT3, and then went full tilt with a D51/SP3/Era/Grace/Shure conical setup with the FMI 100's. Still have all of it in boxes, which I hope to soon resurrect after kids go off to college. Amazing sound. But I lost track of them after they moved to Chicago, and don't have either last name, so cannot really search for them without more help. Anyone know their current whereabouts, and/or even a last name?

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters? Lance is still with us., posted on April 13, 2018 at 15:51:18
richduffler@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Balto. Md.
Joined: March 16, 2012



Here are some pics of the RTR ESR 15's That I line sourced about 5 years ago. They should show most of what's needed to do it yourself for the adventurous. I did this to get rid of the boxes mainly and to match up well w/my Maggie 1D's tweeter configuration.

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters? Lance is still with us., posted on April 13, 2018 at 15:52:39
richduffler@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Balto. Md.
Joined: March 16, 2012






Here are some pics of the RTR ESR 15's That I line sourced about 5 years ago. They should show most of what's needed to do it yourself for the adventurous. I did this to get rid of the boxes mainly and to match up well w/my Maggie 1D's tweeter configuration.

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters? Lance is still with us., posted on April 13, 2018 at 15:54:53
richduffler@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Balto. Md.
Joined: March 16, 2012









Here are some pics of the RTR ESR 15's That I line sourced about 5 years ago. They should show most of what's needed to do it yourself for the adventurous. I did this to get rid of the boxes mainly and to match up well w/my Maggie 1D's tweeter configuration.

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters? Lance is still with us., posted on April 13, 2018 at 15:59:17
richduffler@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Balto. Md.
Joined: March 16, 2012









Here are some pics of the RTR ESR 15's That I line sourced about 5 years ago. They should show most of what's needed to do it yourself for the adventurous. I did this to get rid of the boxes mainly and to match up well w/my Maggie 1D's tweeter configuration.

 

RE: Can anyone repair those RTR tweeters? Lance is still with us., posted on April 14, 2018 at 14:39:44
used-hifi
Audiophile

Posts: 1100
Location: Surprise AZ
Joined: March 18, 2003
 if anyone is looking for just the individual panels I have more then 50! all in good working condition.


 

RE: Wow, now I understand--Fulton FMI 80, posted on November 15, 2019 at 15:30:48
rhibbing
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Location: Minnesota
Joined: November 28, 2017
 Qman, Do you still have your Fulton Nuances? I picked up a pair recently and they sound like the same model Nuances ( I know of 3 different versions) I don't know how to post a picture though. Does your pair have beveled top trim?
Thanks
Rick

 

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