Tweakers' Asylum

Tweaks for systems, rooms and Do It Yourself (DIY) help. FAQ.

Return to Tweakers' Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

The Screws Have Landed

68.109.136.158
Posted on November 2, 2020 at 21:42:56
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3537
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Tweaker 456 has generously provided me with 3 titanium screws to replace the aluminum screws for my carbon fiber outlet covers. I don't know how these covers should sound any different than the plastic ones I had first installed, but the change is dramatically better with the carbon fiber ones..greater change than replacing a major component. Tweaker suggested titanium screws...sounds as though the replacement should have only a mild effect if any at all. When I can report back, I'll continue this post. I do want to thank Tweeker 456 for his advice and generosity.

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
OK, I wanna try a few things but I need some , posted on November 3, 2020 at 04:29:49
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10431
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 guidance on exactly what to do for my setup. Here's what I have for my basement cave that I built 15 years ago:

1. 20 amp circuit from then new breaker box

2. Copper wiring to 2 outlets, 'audiophile' grippy types

3. plastic housing in the wall for the outlets with plain ole plastic covers

let me know what I can try



 

RE: OK, I wanna try a few things but I need some , posted on November 3, 2020 at 06:30:55
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 9623
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 I have very similar setup. 10ga home run to the box, same plastic junction box in the wall.

I first started with an Oyaide outlet. Later I installed the Oyaide WPC-Z. The WPC isn't cheap, but was a huge improvement. There are some less expensive alternatives out there now though. Decoupling the outlet from the box/wall doesn't seem like it'd do much, but between that and the carbon fiber cover it makes a big change for the better.

Start with carbon fiber covers and evaluate from there

 

need link for the carbon fiber cover TIA /nt, posted on November 3, 2020 at 07:10:54
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10431
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000




 

RE: need link for the carbon fiber cover TIA /nt, posted on November 3, 2020 at 07:29:24
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 9623
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Here's one Duster mentioned a little while back.

 

Thanks! /nt, posted on November 3, 2020 at 07:41:06
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10431
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000



 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 3, 2020 at 08:36:56
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 I guess I'll be screwed if you don't hear anything. Probably at least a half a dozen around here that can't wait to hear how screwy I am.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: OK, I wanna try a few things but I need some , posted on November 3, 2020 at 10:38:34
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 How about a titanium wall plate screw?




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: OK, I wanna try a few things but I need some , posted on November 3, 2020 at 16:40:00
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 Hi Sondek, the benefit of the Oyaide WPC-Z aluminum bracket is rigid coupling rather than decoupling, since the AC outlet is firmly mounted on a high mass milled aluminum bracket instead of a flimsy wall box, which provides vibration damping and improved mechanical energy transfer function between the AC outlet contacts and the prongs of the AC plug. The aluminum bracket is also firmly coupled to both the wall box and the wall itself, without the use of a compliant decoupling interface. The finishing touch is the carbon fiber faceplate which provides EMI absorption/dissipation for cleaner sounding energy transfer.

 

I'm waiting for White Carbon Fiber, posted on November 4, 2020 at 07:13:24
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15166
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 And the screws should be painted white, too.

 

I wouldn't bother with white carbon fiber..., posted on November 4, 2020 at 07:28:05
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12364
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 ...what you really need is transparent aluminum.g

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 4, 2020 at 07:43:26
Palustris
Audiophile

Posts: 2408
Location: Cape Cod
Joined: September 12, 2008
 It would seem that the effects you are experiencing should be mitigated by your power line conditioner. What kind of power line conditioner are you using?

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 4, 2020 at 08:13:58
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3537
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Tweeks are very system and listener dependant. I am a violinist...what strings should I play...silver, gold, gut...should the bridge be move 1/4 inch this way or that, etc. Years ago, I read a very favorable review of Marigo Dots...when placed on the circuit board it supposed to do wonders....I removed them after listening and threw them away. The Gingko playform under my turntable....looser...Richard Grey power conditioner....looser. And then there are the successes.....replaced the builder special wall outlets with audiophile approved Maestro outlet plugs...Furutech carbon fiber ends on my power cables, etc. Probably the biggest improvement - really a game changer was the addition of carbon fiber covers on the outlets.... My wife came in from the hairdresser, and without really listening at all was sure I changed speakers. ...it was that much of a positive difference. The latest is the substitution of titanium screws for the metal ones on the outlet covers. I heard a not so subtle difference believe it or not (I couldn't). I use the RCA Living Presence DSD of the Tchaikovsky Symphony 6....a wonderfully recorded and produced record. Right from the instant the music came to me, I could tell the change. There is a section when the clarinet plays a descending scale from its high register, mated with the scale continuing down on the bassoon. With the original (steel?) screws, I could clearly hear the difference in tone between the 2 instruments, with the ti screws, it was more difficult. In another section the violins are playing high in their register which is doubled by a flute an octave higher....clearly I could hear the 2 different instruments...not so with the ti. The new screws have a more laid back - distant quality, but I feel it also covers the nuances....so.....an enjoyable experiment, but I'll stick to the original screws. Thanks

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 4, 2020 at 13:31:25
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Quite a different experience than mine but at least you tried and at least you heard a significant difference. That's the spirit of Tweaker's Asylum.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 4, 2020 at 13:40:32
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Let me know if you want to try brass screws. I should have a few around.




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 4, 2020 at 14:44:32
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3537
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Actually, I've had lots of luck with brass. I once had cones of different material, and brass ones were the best for these ears in this system to put under the components. If you send me your address, I'll return the ti and send you a stamped engelope for the 3 brass ones? Thanks Stan

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 4, 2020 at 14:49:55
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3537
Joined: April 23, 2007
 I've tried many line conditioners, and I couldn't live with the warts every one has exhibited. At first, the change sounded inviting, but then annoying.

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 4, 2020 at 14:50:31
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 I'll look and see if I have 3 brass left. I might only have a couple. The "brass" screws in a local ACE are not solid brass but the ones I have are.




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 4, 2020 at 15:18:56
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Maybe at a Marine Hardware store?
They should have REAL brass and even 18-8 Stainless.
Bring a magnet, maybe, too.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 4, 2020 at 16:04:29
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Others, including myself have had experience with "line conditioners" hurting the sound. I highly suggest at least a couple of microfarads of Type X capacitors, designed to go across the ac, self healing and pulse tested as a "sure thing" to improve sound. There are some on ebay that are reasonable. The ones below are a bargain.




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 4, 2020 at 18:28:57
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3537
Joined: April 23, 2007
 What do you do with the capacitors?......... I'm not real anxious to open my amp and do soldering...

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 5, 2020 at 08:54:25
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 I have found that it is very difficult to find non magnetic metal hardware be it SS, Titanium, brass m around with a small neo magnet. If you want to experience the elimination of the magnetic effect you might try Nylon or harder plastic hardware in situations where high strength is not required. I should think that a cover plate could be held in place with a nylon screw. One other possibility would be to use a drop of instant adhesive which would hold the plate yet allow you to pop it off when necessary no magnetic impact this way. Easy and fast to do just as easy to undo.
moray james

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 5, 2020 at 09:42:48
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 The Type X safety capacitors are designed to go across the AC line, across the plug, white and black, not to ground. Make sure it's John Risch approved. The brass screws will be in the mail today. Tweaker






So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 5, 2020 at 09:44:54
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Both titanium and brass are non-magnetic and sound different so magnetism is not the factor or the only factor.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 5, 2020 at 12:07:15
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 "Both titanium and brass are non-magnetic and sound different so magnetism is not the factor or the only factor."

Yes different metals sound do different and non ferrous metals sound better. That said however Stainless steel,Titanium, Brass and Aluminum fasteners are almost always contaminated with ferrous metal. All you have to do is to carry a strong neo magnet with you to prove this. No matter the metal the lower the contamination level the better the sound use your magnet to find the parts with the least ferrous contamination. No metal sounds better than any metal hence my suggestion to try Nylon and other plastics used to make machine screws here is a list(see below). Compare a highly magnetic SS screw to a very low magnetic SS screw and hear the difference for yourself.
Nylon
PVC
Polypropylene
Phenolic
PTFE
G10
Kel-F ®



Delrin/Acetal
Neoprene
Mylar
Glass-Filled Nylon
PEEK ®
CPVC
ABS



PVDF / Kynar
Isoplast
Nomex®
Kapton®
Polycarbonate
Polyethylene
Ultem ®

moray james

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 5, 2020 at 12:10:11
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10431
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 there was an interesting video of a frog being levitated within an intense magnetic field. Funny, that



 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 5, 2020 at 14:41:26
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 "No metal sounds better than any metal" That is not what I have experienced with wall plates. Both the Brainerd with metal and the Fenton solid brass wall plate are way better sounding that a generic plastic wall plate. IMO the screw and wall plate is mostly vibration management.






So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 5, 2020 at 16:49:56
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 wall plates are not what we are discussing nice try.
"IMO the screw and wall plate is mostly vibration management." this is your argument your rational says that any old screw will do the job equally as well and that is not the case. What's your theory #2?
moray james

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 5, 2020 at 17:25:06
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 I don't follow your "logic" that my rational says any old screw would do the job equally as well?? IMO the screw and the wall plate are a system to mostly manage vibration. Each type of screw will have different characteristics in how it vibrates and transfers energy to the wall plate and it may be that different screws and wall plates synergize with each other better than others. Once again, I don't get your logic. I'd be perfectly willing to listen to a plastic screw but I probably won't go out of my way to hunt it down unless it's real easy like in a hardware store.








So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 5, 2020 at 22:20:24
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 why not start with a wall plate and a screw any screw and vary the applied tension at say three settings, you can mark the head of the screw and make a reference points on the cover plate to indicate the three setting lowest pressure medium pressure and highest pressure or count the number of turns what ever works for you then you can take another screw of a different metal brass or SS and repeat and see if you hear a difference at the same tensions. This will give you an idea of how tension impacts the sound and also how different materials factor in.
moray james

 

wasn't it years ago that Richard Greene, posted on November 6, 2020 at 09:06:28
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10431
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 had this device on the back wall where you would twist it to get a different sound from the room?

If the theory about AC lines is correct, the best thing to do would be to tear apart the walls all the way back to the breaker box and secure the line completely along the way through the studs. Local codes (depending on location) have all kinds of similarities on spaces along the way. Romex, Plastic, what a nest of trouble.

It might be best to pour cement in all the spaces and completely seal up all possible vibrations from 60 hz of AC delivery. Wow, that's taking things to the limit of sensibilities and beyond.

How about an Audiophile Breaker Box? That might be a start to a new company with many buyers lined up. All you would need is local inspection approvals and install a grounding rod made of titanium and gold plate. I can't wait.

Sorry, I'm having a lousy day.





 

RE: wasn't it years ago that Richard Greene, posted on November 6, 2020 at 09:30:57
rivervalley817
 no, Bass Nut didn't have have that set up ... no 18" or 32" woofers there

actually, a mfg. could probably move a lot of audiophile breaker boxes made of titanium and they wouldn't violate code at all

while grounding rods made of copper galvanized stainless steel would be the way to go since they're exterior and out of the way of the RFI / EMI and vibration field while also meeting electrical code

you might have the entrepreneurial opportunity of a lifetime going there

maybe start a 'go fund me' so you aren't bleeding your own money?

you'll need to seed the internet forums with 'homespun' anecdotal testimonials like the 'big boys' do for it to take off though

get busy

with regards,



 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 6, 2020 at 10:56:56
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Well moray, can you tell us a bit more about what the difference in sound is from nylon screws to brass, stainless and titanium?


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: wasn't it years ago that Richard Greene, posted on November 6, 2020 at 10:58:42
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 I am thinking about a titanium plate. The plates are probably pretty easy and not too expensive but punching the double d hole is the problem.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: wasn't it years ago that Richard Greene, posted on November 6, 2020 at 11:52:56
rivervalley817
 does it have to be a 'D' ?

 

RE: wasn't it years ago that Richard Greene, posted on November 6, 2020 at 12:50:03
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 They are not solid titanium, just titanium color.


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: wasn't it years ago that Richard Greene, posted on November 6, 2020 at 12:56:22
rivervalley817
 dammit! thought I had something there for you ... also:

dammit! I missed a chance for a joke when you said a 'D' would be hard to do

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 17, 2020 at 19:25:15
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3537
Joined: April 23, 2007
 ...and now the brass. I have titanium, brass and originals. They all sound different in different places. I now have the amp and speakers plugged into the wall with brass....and the preamp and CD player into the wall with titanium. Going nuts.

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 18, 2020 at 11:02:21
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7732
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Can you describe what you like about the titanium in the place you found them to be superior?


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: The Screws Have Landed, posted on November 18, 2020 at 19:28:16
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3537
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Sure....remember the plate itself is carbon fiber...I tightened each of the screws "finger" tight because I didn't want to crack the plate itself. Listening very carefully tightness little or no difference that I could readily hear. The brass screws seemed to reduce the highs, where the titanium ones seem to elevate highs. That's not to say that the highs had any textural change...just that the seemed either to be elevated or reduced. What I'm listening to now are the brass on the outlets for the speakers and the amp, and the titanium on the preamp, and CD (universal) player. I'll try other combinations and come to some conclusion eventually. All systems sound different with different tweeks. Thanks Tweaker for the opportunity to monkey around.

 

Page processed in 0.036 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]