40uF PIO capacitors

I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 3, 2020 at 14:11:39
Cougar Audiophile Posts: 4574 Location: SoCal Joined: June 25, 2001	nt.

RE: 40uF PIO capacitors, posted on October 4, 2020 at 08:21:46
Lee of Omaha Dealer Posts: 1800 Location: Omaha NE Joined: September 8, 2006	Don't know of a source other than paralleling, but don't discount voltage rating. Due to the reactive nature of crossovers and drivers, peak voltage in a speaker crossover can exceed voltage delivered at the speaker terminals.

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 4, 2020 at 20:37:21

Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002

Over three grand for a 40uf PIO Duelund cap.

See link:

https://www.partsconnexion.com/DUELUND-71526.html

I believe he's looking for paper in oil in that value, posted on October 5, 2020 at 05:55:31

1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007

ASC oilers are polypropylene in oil.

The ASC X386S did get decent marks when used as a crossover cap though. (link below)

X-over cap shoot-out

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 5, 2020 at 15:45:51
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	And they are out of stock Not that I would spend $7K on the caps anyway. Are there any other options?

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 5, 2020 at 15:52:37

Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002

Tell me about the application, and why is such a large value PIO cap of interest, Maril555?

I'm an avid user of an oil cap for power factor correction, and it might be a good thing to use a PIO bypass cap with it...

See link:

https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/tweaks/185553/re-caps-f

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 5, 2020 at 17:24:37
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	I'm having a new speakers built for me (Altec 817 Front Loaded Horns bass cabs with dual Altec 515 bass drivers and Altec 1505 500 Hz Cellular horns with Altec 288 drivers) These are two way design. Crossover is very simple- one coil, 40uF cap and L-pad

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 09:04:40
Palustris Audiophile Posts: 2408 Location: Cape Cod Joined: September 12, 2008	That's still a huge capacitor for a crossover. Altec's N-500 crossover used a 18.9uF cap in parallel with the 515 and 4uF in series with the 288 drivers. If this were my application I would use parallel connected oil caps and an MKP cap to make up the 40uF cap.

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 09:25:26
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	40uF is what I was told by people who actually built it

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 10:34:17
Duster Manufacturer Posts: 17117 Location: Pacific Northwest Joined: August 25, 2002	What is the budget-level of the capacitors needed for your project, Maril555?

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 12:04:48
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	Short of Duelund, unlimited

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 12:48:14

Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002

A 40uf ASC cap with a 1uf VH Audio OIMP as a bypass cap might sound spectacular.

See link:

https://www.v-cap.com/oil-capacitors.php

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 16:16:34
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	Thank you Duster, I'll look into this

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 16:30:10
Duster Manufacturer Posts: 17117 Location: Pacific Northwest Joined: August 25, 2002	I would enjoy helping you with the wiring, cables, and AC delivery system, Maril555. I'm working on a solid core pure silver cabling project for a fellow AA Inmate's outstanding SET/Horns system, at this time.

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 17:14:07
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	Oh, thank you so much Duster, I'll certainly have questions. BTW, the proposed crossover will be external to simplify future adjustments and replacements.

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 17:17:25
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	Looks like a very interesting, completely custom system. I'd assume Those rectangular boxes are the bass cabinets with a single 12/15" driver?

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 18:09:29

Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002

Here's an AA thread that might be of some interest, Maril555.

See link:

https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=179905

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 19:37:28
Duster Manufacturer Posts: 17117 Location: Pacific Northwest Joined: August 25, 2002	The link to the loudspeaker system is broken, at this time. I'll try to post one that works, if I can find it. The workmanship is as good as it gets, really.

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 20:01:08
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	It is interesting. I need to do more research on crossovers and wiring.

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 6, 2020 at 21:32:59
Duster Manufacturer Posts: 17117 Location: Pacific Northwest Joined: August 25, 2002	BTW, Altec Lansing's "The Voice of the Theater" speakers were involved in plenty of the gigs I played as a professional musician, back in the day. I'll be happy to toss my 2 cents worth into your special project. What make/model amplification is feeding them, Maril555?

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 7, 2020 at 04:44:14
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	Shindo Giscours WE349A preamp and Lamm ML2 SET amps I'm using Pass Labs VR-1 active crossover with a pair of JL Phathom V2 112 subs

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 7, 2020 at 05:05:26
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	It's Pass Labs XVR-1

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 7, 2020 at 09:24:23

madisonears
Audiophile

Posts: 1587
Location: midwest
Joined: September 6, 2006

This is possibly a worthwhile suggestion, but before you spend any money (and probably lots of it) following the advice of someone whose opinion is probably based on speculation, I suggest you investigate pros and cons of combining capacitors of various types. It doesn't always work as well as expected. In other words, 1 + 5 doesn't always equal 6 when it comes to combining caps. Yes, the values certainly add up, but the combination of vastly different construction types doesn't always yield good sound.

Ask the designers, or someone who has actually done experiments with those particular parts if they work well together. There are websites that discuss this type of thing in detail.
berate is 8 and benign is 9

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 7, 2020 at 12:13:09
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	Shindo Giscours WE349A preamp and Lamm ML2 SET amps I'm using Pass Labs VR-1 active crossover with a pair of JL Phathom V2 112 subs

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 7, 2020 at 12:13:12
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	It's Pass Labs XVR-1

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 7, 2020 at 12:16:14
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	I agree, Will certainly investigate different options.

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 7, 2020 at 19:02:18
Duster Manufacturer Posts: 17117 Location: Pacific Northwest Joined: August 25, 2002	Very impressive set-up.

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 7, 2020 at 20:02:03
Duster Manufacturer Posts: 17117 Location: Pacific Northwest Joined: August 25, 2002	I was given the proper links to the Jeffrey W. Jackson loudspeaker system. This is the product webpage: http://www.jeffreywjackson.com/ This is a video showing the speakers being made: https://vimeo.com/134687364

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 7, 2020 at 20:29:02

Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002

I suggest asking Chris at VH Audio about the application. As my post indicated, it *might* be spectacular. Based in my direct experience of the VH Audio OIMP as a bypass capacitor for both a power supply section and a bypass capacitor for a signal application, it's a wonderful product. But Chris will advise you about its use as a bypass capacitor for a passive crossover application. I'm sure he will be glad to provide trustworthy advice.

Here's a link to a report I posted in Tweakers' Asylum about the OIMP for a power supply application:

https://www.v-cap.com/pdf-files/TweakersAsylumVHAudioOIMP.pdf

Here's a link to a report I posted in Tweakers' Asylum about the OIMP for a signal application:

https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/tweaks/203616/v-cap-oimp-bypass-capacitor

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 8, 2020 at 04:03:24
Maril555 Audiophile Posts: 263 Location: Philadelphia Joined: March 9, 2004	Thank you Duster, I certainly will ask Chris.

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 10, 2020 at 09:21:32

Uncle Mike

I got down to the advice Madisonears gave re: combining caps and thought I would throw this in to consider. You said the builder recommended 40mfd but didn't say if they spec'd PIO. I'm sure they are aware of the cost. You may want to reconsider if they spec'd electrolytic caps and ask what they calculated as the "equivalent series resistance" of the them. Subtle changes can make big differences in high efficiency speaker crossovers. Replacing older electrolytic with equivalent capacitance modern type in and of itself can be a trial.
Bill Fitzmaurice just offered a suggestion for modeling software in the High Eff Asylum a few days ago.

RE: I think the ASC caps have some in that value. nt., posted on October 20, 2020 at 08:48:21
dubai2000 Audiophile Posts: 218 Joined: November 19, 2002	If you are still interested in caps - try Miflex from Poland (and their MKPs are not really expensive) - very good stuff - use them in my Altec system as well (in my case a 56uF cap).