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Mogami 3104

107.77.230.17
Posted on July 14, 2020 at 10:04:43
Taki888
Audiophile

Posts: 47
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: May 15, 2020
 Hi,

Is the Mogami 3104 a star quad like Canare 4s11? Big price difference beween the two.
For speaker cables less than 8 feet, probably makes no difference?

Btw, are those isolator things that lift your speaker cables off the floor snake oil?

 

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RE: Yes, lifting cables off the ground is snake oil, posted on July 14, 2020 at 10:55:24
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 It improves the sound from my and many other point of view. Easy enough to try without anything special to hold them up. Snake oil is good stuff.




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Yes, lifting cables off the ground is snake oil, posted on July 14, 2020 at 12:02:51
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 what about signal wires? Should they be lifted?

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Yes, lifting cables off the ground is snake oil, posted on July 14, 2020 at 15:03:31
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Nah, that would be snake oil.




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

Lifting cables off the ground is not snake oil., posted on July 14, 2020 at 15:23:53
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 It's beneficial to suspend all cables off the floor, including speaker cables, line-level audio cables, and power cords. It's not mandatory, but each incremental increase in performance-quality due to audiophile accessories such as vibration control and noise reduction devices tend to make a notable difference for the better.

 

RE: Mogami 3104, posted on July 14, 2020 at 16:22:20
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Here is what Pierre at Mapleshade has to say about lifting cables off the floor Takki888. Not a bad description if not a touch hyperbolic.


Lift all speaker, power, and interconnect wires 8" off any carpet or plastic tile. Use string, wood, cardboard, or 20 ounce Styrofoam cups for temporary props. You'll think you've pulled horse blankets off your speakers.

I made lifters from doweling put through a 5/8th nut as a tripod, if I remember correctly.

So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Yes, lifting cables off the ground is snake oil, posted on July 14, 2020 at 16:32:35
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 I'm just wondering how we can pull the "horse blankets off" the signal as found on LPs and CD etc? In all my years working in professional recording studios I have never seen anyone lift microphone cables.

Just saying.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Yes, lifting cables off the ground is snake oil, posted on July 14, 2020 at 17:23:44
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Just saying what Tre'? That because you have never tried it or seen anyone else try it therefore it doesn't or can't have an effect on the sound? At least 2 or three logical fallacies there. I'm sure I can find more based on your question how it can pull horse blankets off cd's and records. The Red Herring Fallacy right off the top of my head. You are not pulling horse blankets off of cds and records, you are potentially improving the nature of the electrical signal traveling through the wire by changing the dielectric and or vibration dampening. Far be it from me to believe in everything Pierre does but he is a recording "engineer". I would bet dollars to donuts that when practical, like in his own recording studio, that he has his microphone cables off the floor.I could be wrong but I doubt it. I'm sure he will answer that question if put to him. Given the low level of the signal in microphone cables one might speculate that that may be the most effective place for this tweak??









So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Yes, lifting cables off the ground is snake oil, posted on July 14, 2020 at 17:42:42
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 I agree, if the tweak worked in the first place, mic lines in the recording studio would be "the most effective place for this tweak??".

"That because you have never tried it" Why the hell would you assume that?

I've got some great sounding recording from the 50's clear up to the 80's with no sign of "horse blankets" and I'm pretty sure the mic lines were not lifted for those recordings.

Take a good listen to Nat King Cole's "Orange Colored Sky" on the DCC release LPZ2-2061. The dynamics and clear, clean highs show no sign of "horse blankets". Well, maybe they lifted the mic cables on that (no latter than 1963) recording?

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Yes, lifting cables off the ground is snake oil, posted on July 14, 2020 at 18:06:37
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
"I've got some great sounding recording from the 50's clear up to the 80's with no sign of "horse blankets" and I'm pretty sure the mic lines were not lifted for those recordings." The point is would the sound have improved if these great sounding recordings were made with the cables lifted off the floor. Would your great recording have been better? Does the tweak work or not? Only trying will tell. This is the tweaker's asylum where people come for tweak info. Lifting cables off the ground is a good thing. Microphone cables or interconnect I would suspect would follow the same principles as speaker cable,I haven't needed to try them specifically. I would suggest that part of the reason you think these recordings are great would be the equipment you are using to reproduce it. Might you suspect that these great recording would be even greater with modern wire, cable, resistors, capacitors, vibration control, ac filtration... or are they intrinsically the greatest they could have ever been?? Please send me back in time so I can prove my point. Me thinks things were better in some way back then. Where's the WABAC machine when you need it the most?

So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Yes, lifting cables off the ground is snake oil, posted on July 14, 2020 at 18:11:53
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 "Only trying will tell. "

I have.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Yes, lifting cables off the ground is snake oil, posted on July 14, 2020 at 18:49:21
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Why would I assume that you never listened to mic wires off the ground in an AB test Tre'? This is why.

"In all my years working in professional recording studios I have never seen anyone lift microphone cables." Tre' July 14,2020 16:32:35





So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Yes, lifting cables off the ground is snake oil, posted on July 14, 2020 at 21:45:09
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 I was saying that I have tried lifting my speaker wires here at home.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Mogami 3104, posted on July 15, 2020 at 05:07:25
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 I recommend Furez FZ124AS 12/4 wired star quad as a better option to consider, Taki888. It's only $25 for 25 feet + a moderate shipping charge.

Terminate the cable with high-quality speaker cable connectors that will fit a 9 AWG aggregate/effective gauge cable.

See link:

 

RE: Mogami 3104, posted on July 15, 2020 at 10:40:02
Taki888
Audiophile

Posts: 47
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: May 15, 2020
 Thanks Duster. I will check out those cables.

Doesn't hurt to try and lift cables off the ground. Doesn't cost anything. I probably
would not hear a difference.

I have tried switching PU leather and suede headphone ear pads, I could not hear the difference. Some must have superior hearing.

I do miss vinyl and cassette tapes, that was fun and sounded great be it not the latest tech.


 

under what physical properties is it effective?, posted on July 16, 2020 at 04:40:37
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10453
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 high/low humidity? Type of carpeting/no carpeting? Cement/wood flooring? Basement or higher up? Throw rugs?

It would be scientific for someone to clear up the myths involved. I would find it hard to believe that it is clearly audible under all conditions. I have tried it but reserve any comments/opinions.

Does anybody have research or data on the subject? Citing experience under one's own condition is not definitive.



 

RE: 9 AWG they'll keep themselves off the ground !!! ;-} nt, posted on July 16, 2020 at 06:06:30
B. Scarpia

 

RE: under what physical properties is it effective?, posted on July 16, 2020 at 09:48:00
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Well Story, I have decided, since subjective experience is so difficult to come by given the arduous task of lifting cables off the floor and taking a before and after listen, to go rogue and personally fund a randomized, blinded,controlled trial of the effects of lifting cables off of rugs, nylon, wool and cotton, wood and laminate fake wood. I hope to soon get the results published is a respected scientific journal like Sterophile or The Absolute Sound. Stay tuned,so to speak. Tweaker456


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

best of wishes, posted on July 16, 2020 at 10:14:46
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10453
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 and hope it can shed some light on the subject because it seems to be environment dependent, but I'm not sure.

I hope it's simpler than politics.



 

RE: best of wishes, posted on July 16, 2020 at 10:50:32
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 It will be a lot simpler than politics because everyone will be blindfolded so as to reduce subjectivity and brainwashing to zero. They won't even be told what the independent variable is. Be watching the Sterophile headlines soon! FINAL RCT CONCLUSION: LIFTING CABLES OFF THE FLOOR RESULTS IN... (hint, horse blankets)




So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Mogami 3104, posted on July 16, 2020 at 13:25:34
Cpwill
Audiophile

Posts: 1096
Location: DC
Joined: December 22, 2003
Contributor
  Since: October 24, 2008
 Of course lifting all wires off the floor is beneficial. After consulting with a structural engineer and hiring a contractor to reinforce the floor,I filled my listening room up to the chair rail with tons of organically-grown, fair-traded brown rice, each grain hand engraved with the name of different jazz artist by octogenarian Italian craftspeople each earning a minimum of 15.00 Euros per hour, plus benefits. All cables are routed through the middle of the rice between the floor and the top of the pile. How do I best describe the improvement. I don't know; I cannot get the rice out of my ear drums.

WARNING: before you try this, please realize that the WAF is in negative territory by a factor of -1,000,000,000. Good luck to all willing to boldly venture where no audiophile has gone before me.

Now, wash your hands and listen to some good music.


"Anyone who understands jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra.

Cpwill

 

RE: Mogami 3104, posted on July 16, 2020 at 13:52:45
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 It is quite clear that you are discriminating against non Italian craft people and young craft people. I hope to see this obviously political message go poof! Long, medium or short grain brown rice?


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

RE: Mogami 3104, posted on July 16, 2020 at 13:59:53
Cpwill
Audiophile

Posts: 1096
Location: DC
Joined: December 22, 2003
Contributor
  Since: October 24, 2008
 No politics intended. Now, does the rice go poof or puffed? As far a rice grain length, the long grains tend over-emphasize the bass frequencies, and the short grains exaggerated the highs. If you try it, I recommend you start with medium grain rice for the best tonal balance. Do not use rice as tone controls. Get a Dynaco PAS 3x if you need tone controls.


"Anyone who understands jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra.

Cpwill

 

RE: best of wishes, posted on July 16, 2020 at 17:10:54
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 horse blankets implies big, day and night differences.

so is that your claim. If I lift my speaker wires I will hear a large obvious improvement?

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: best of wishes, posted on July 16, 2020 at 17:57:44
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Tre,horse blankets was not my claim, it was Pierre Sprey's claim which I pretty much stated could be considered a touch hyperbolic. #2 One man's horse blanket is another's cold night in the dark uncovered. #3 all one has to do is try it for themselves and see.#4 Horse blanket or no horse blanket it may be the particular kind of change that got rid of some annoyance or lifted ones system across a certain threshold of performance that might have been sought. I think this is a very good tweak for very little effort and expense. This by the way Tre, this is the tweaker's asylum. To tweak or not to tweak?, that should not be the question here,IMHO.



So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

" rouge." I think you meant Rogue. If not, please post Pix! nt, posted on July 18, 2020 at 11:08:53
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10582
Joined: April 12, 2002
 /

 

RE: " rouge." I think you meant Rogue. If not, please post Pix! nt, posted on July 18, 2020 at 21:05:59
tweaker456
Audiophile

Posts: 7741
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 20, 2020
 Man cuts off nose, alters face to look like Marvel villain Red ...


So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

 

!!! Very Feminine....! , posted on July 19, 2020 at 09:56:18
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10582
Joined: April 12, 2002
 Also, YIKES.

 

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