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What is a good isolation footer?

108.234.77.201
Posted on May 20, 2020 at 17:44:14
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 I just have my gear on those rubber/ cork/ rubber blocks. Its there anything better?

Its just a headphone system so do I need to even worry? I know equipment can vibe but half of the gear has separate psus that are on the floor. Should I try to support the psus too?

Also I can suspend my dac with a minimal amount of effort Would suspending it so it can move help?

What is a good strategy?

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

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RE: What is a good isolation footer?, posted on May 20, 2020 at 20:19:55
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4306
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 I have footers under everything including separate power supplies. I heard better reproduction with each piece of equipment.

 

RE: What is a good isolation footer?, posted on May 20, 2020 at 20:21:32
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Al right I will see what I can do. It makes sense.

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: What is a good isolation footer?, posted on May 20, 2020 at 23:08:42
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 AcoustiFeet low-profile silicone feet have been all but unnoticed in audio forums. They are relatively inexpensive from an audiophile POV, and provide excellent stability while doing a fine job as a compliant decoupling footer.

I find vibration control devices placed under an outboard power supply to be even more important than footers positioned under the audio component it feeds, Dawnrazor.

The compact silicone design of the AcoustiFeet is a smaller and much better sounding version of the of the vinyl Vibrapod footer, IME.

See link:

 

RE: What is a good isolation footer?, posted on May 21, 2020 at 06:16:30
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1989
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
 I have found vibration control a lot like power conditioning... unless someone has the exact component, you really need to experiment. Room qualities also have impact... suspended floors, cheap thin drywall (like mine), cabinet, etc..

Sometimes cushy rubbery products work and sometimes not. I have had more luck with the component on hard wood with rubber under the wood. My speakers like rubber, hard surface (in this case cement) then another layer of rubber... which creates a floating scheme.

I have to say I didn't hear much difference with my DAC but it has pretty sizeable OPT's, so...??

 

RE: What is a good isolation footer?, posted on May 21, 2020 at 06:31:03
Ric
Audiophile

Posts: 364
Joined: October 14, 2001
 Sound isolation is another can of worms to open and is dependent on 1) how sensitive your equipment is, and 2) how sensitive your ears are. I have tried many DIY's hoping to save money, but then I went on to Herbie's products that had me realizing that it's better to spend the money and they know what they're doing. Now I am using IsoAcoustic's products under my speakers, TT, TT motor, amp, dac. These cost more than Herbie's but work much better and the sound improvement, for me, is worth the money. If you can afford them, and plan to keep your equipment, I think you can return the Orea's if not satisfied.

 

AV Room Service EVP..., posted on May 21, 2020 at 07:32:25
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1346
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 From the AudioShark forum:

"I've used the cheap 2x2 isolator blocks mentioned here for quite some time in various capacities, both alone and in conjunction with Isoacoustics puck style isolators. I was able to recently compare each of those directly against the EVP under a preamp and a DVD player. After letting the EVPs settle for several hours, the all-around improvement was substantial. I've found the cheap ones serve decently under small peripherals such as a cable box and LPS, as well as to physically isolate and separate cables, but for main gear they are not in the same class as the EVP."
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

RE: What is a good isolation footer?, posted on May 21, 2020 at 08:32:38
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Thanks dude. I can try that. I had some slicon footers but they were basically flat ovals and thin

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: What is a good isolation footer?, posted on May 21, 2020 at 10:48:59
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002



You mentioned "flat ovals and thin". Like these?

 

Another vote for IsoAcoustics , posted on May 21, 2020 at 12:47:38
johntoste
Audiophile

Posts: 459
Location: New England
Joined: March 20, 2004
 I've tried a variety of footers over the years and now have Gaia and Orea footers under everything in my system. They're great.

O.p., check the weight ratings for the Orea feet on the IsoAcoustics website. They might have something appropriate for your rig.

Good luck!

 

RE: What is a good isolation footer?, posted on May 21, 2020 at 20:12:18
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 YUP that is the ticket.

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. NT, posted on May 21, 2020 at 20:15:02
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 d

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: What is a good isolation footer?, posted on May 22, 2020 at 13:39:55
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 Here's another source for the AcoustiFeet footers. Like the Vibrapod models, notice they have specific models based on the weight of an object to choose from, but the benefits for audio use is not so dependent on weight, since you could choose various models to tune the resonant characteristic of an audio component.

See link:

 

While waiting for responses I did some research and , posted on May 22, 2020 at 19:18:48
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004



came up with some diy rollerballs.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DJHL05E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QYCNJG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

buying 4 packs of the footers you can do 5 components for around $50.

I have them under the Dac, Amp, BBE, Big Ben and the Power Regen. They work.

I certainly didn't AB anything but the gear is definitely floating and well it sounds more 3d, like there is more space, but that could just be placebo.

Gear is moving while I type this so its working....

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: While waiting for responses I did some research and , posted on May 23, 2020 at 03:57:57
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002



A roller ball assembly needs to have ultra low rolling resistance so now that you know that the concept works try a very hard ball and cup instead of the very soft materials that you are using now, you will experience a dramatic improvement.
small nested pop cans and a marble will be a big improvement over your current material choice but still not what harder materials will provide. I have attached an image of the pop can block and another more interesting option chrome plated steel base with a steel ball this will yield very low resistance if the cup surface is smooth.
moray james

 

RE: While waiting for responses I did some research and , posted on May 23, 2020 at 04:00:21
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002



here is the pop can block better than what you are using but still not hard enough to extract the most performance.
moray james

 

RE: While waiting for responses I did some research and , posted on May 23, 2020 at 10:34:18
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Thanks man.

Was looking at some brass balls. Will try some harder materials.

Is there and advantage to putting another cup on top of the ball or is it best to have the component touching the ball?

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: While waiting for responses I did some research and , posted on May 23, 2020 at 13:14:17
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 no best to let the ball contact the bottom of the chassis unless you have such a mess underneath then a top cup will be necessary. Brass is very soft you can buy ball bearings those are always hard steel stick with a steel bearing as it will be very hard and very round glass a second best for both roundness and hardness. I cannot get to my local supplier to check out some steel hole plugs but they seem the best of all worlds so long as the inside surface of the pressed cap is smooth and I don't see why it would not be the steel will not be as hard as a bearing but the chrome plate is very hard so that ought to be just fine the prongs act as a ball cage keeping them from getting lost. See if you can find some of them glue a soft rubber washer on them for a base and you are good to go.
moray james

 

RE: While waiting for responses I did some research and , posted on May 23, 2020 at 14:39:08
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 have some steel cups and ball bearings on the way...

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: While waiting for responses I did some research and , posted on May 23, 2020 at 17:07:57
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 the more polished the cup surface (think mirror)the lower you can make the surface resistance (surface drag) for any material. let us know what you think with the new materials.
moray james

 

Norsorex Spheres , posted on May 25, 2020 at 09:01:23
MikeWI
Audiophile

Posts: 632
Joined: March 22, 2002
 Nice DIY! I have had good results with absorbing materials. Norsorex is very "dead".

Mike

 

RE: Norsorex Spheres , posted on May 25, 2020 at 19:10:56
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Cool man. I can try those. Though Moray says soft materials as a no no, but it makes sense to me about an absorptive material working well.

Good thing is that its fairly cheap to experiment.

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

Balls of Steel, posted on May 27, 2020 at 18:10:38
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 got the steel balls and some metal cups. Cups were too small and the ball wouldn't roll. So I put them in place of the wood ones.

Impossible to AB. But it certainly seems smooth and the systems sounds really good. Some bigger metal cups on the way.

THough With the steel balls things seem to move more. My headphone amp keeps moving over to kiss my monitor stand. Don't recall that happening on the wood...

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: Norsorex Spheres , posted on May 27, 2020 at 18:25:04
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 The key factors of a compliant decoupling material are both absorption and dissipation. To just absorb energy and store it within the material is what makes some decoupling materials sound colored, bloated, or "squishy sounding". Energy dissipation is vital since vibrational energy needs to be converted to thermal energy. Otherwise, vibration control can be considered just a matter of shifting the resonance characteristic of an object (tuning without absorption) in a more pleasing manner which tends to be the nature of vibration control for audio purposes, without the ubiquitous notion of vibration isolation or dampening being involved. Control is the keyword here.

 

RE: Balls of Steel, posted on May 28, 2020 at 17:38:56
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 lower friction more possible motion the reason I gave up on roller blocks back in the 80's the sound was great but they were too much fuss and still are but they still sound great. A smaller ball is better than a larger ball all you need is for the ball to sit proud of the top of our cup by a mm or two. I have been experimenting with finger nail brushes they need to have enough stiffness to only just compress and yu have the sane dissipation of horizontal vibration as well as a vertical compliance so better than a ball alone which only dissipates energy in the horizontal no vertical vibration dissipation.When set up properly I cannot tell any difference between my steel ball on steel cup or my fingernail brushes. No balls to lose nor components falling over or swaying about. I much prefer the brushes.
moray james

 

RE: What is a good isolation footer?, posted on May 29, 2020 at 16:56:02
fastcat
Audiophile

Posts: 149
Location: Midwest
Joined: May 30, 2003
 There are many forms of isolation devices on the market.

Some one with a test shaker system, accelerometers, and an FFT signal analyzer could easily tell which ones are really doing what they are supposed to be doing (ignoring marketing hype).

An isolator is supposed to reduce the level of vibration al energy being
coupled into a component mechanically from what ever it sits on. Most isolation devices will not be of much use in reducing "airborne" acoustic
energy that might vibrate a component.

Typical isolators have three frequency ranges:

1. Below the resonance frequency of the isolator/component mass
2. A region of "amplification" of mechanical energy at the resonance
frequency of the isolator/component mass
3. A region above resonance where mechanical energy into a component
is typically progressively reduced with increasing frequency

High quality isolators are made of materials that not only attenuate the entry of vibration energy, but also reduce the level of "amplification" at resonance.

What you get using any given isolation system may be at least in part due to how the isolator acts in conjunction with the component mass. They may also introduce various colorations from a component based on a number of physical factors that will vary with the mechanical energy input, mass, and various vibrational characteristics of the component.

I spent a 33 year career doing R&D in acoustics and vibration. I recommend trying EAR Isodamp isolators, as they are good at isolating and damping the resonance peak. I believe that Michael Percy and Parts Connexion have them. Getting an isolator that gives you the final "flavor" that you may want could be a matter of trial and error.

The scientific aspects of isolation, resonance, and damping are not well understood by many in the high end industry, and likely few have the technical know-how and equipment to research this area.

 

RE: Norsorex Spheres , posted on May 31, 2020 at 08:48:45
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 3156
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2018
 Can you help with the description of the spheres? Can't find anything on the site.

Like size and recommended weight bearing?

I do recall a post about these some time ago, but can't find it.

Cheers!

Jonesy


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

RE: Balls of Steel, posted on June 1, 2020 at 07:27:58
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Picts of the brushes please since i cant quite picture it.

yeah the steel balls sound great but not for the OCD. My components on my desk where I type need almost constant re positioning....

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: Balls of Steel, posted on June 1, 2020 at 07:35:52
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 any kind of brush will work bristles facing up.






moray james

 

RE: Balls of Steel, posted on June 1, 2020 at 19:28:47
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 LOL. I was thinking like a brush for tube sockets or mascara...

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: Balls of Steel, posted on June 3, 2020 at 09:20:24
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Man I ordered some brushes now. The balls are sounding great, but I recall Steve Gutenberg talking about how "having your gear rolling around is not good" or something like that. Anyhow I am sick of constantly moving the gear around during the day as it slowly moves toward chaos...

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: Balls of Steel, posted on June 3, 2020 at 12:09:12
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 SA seel ball on a steel cup does sound good but it is a real P.I.T.A.. That's why I gave up on roller blocks so many decades ago. Brushes (when set up right) are better sounding than balls alone because they also provide energy dissipation in the vertical plane which roller balls do not.
moray james

 

RE: Balls of Steel, posted on June 4, 2020 at 02:44:20
old guy 42
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Location: Eastern Pa
Joined: August 12, 2012
Contributor
  Since: August 26, 2012
 Hey DR,

LOL, I ordered my brushes yesterday AM, to be delivered 6/8. I have assorted footers I use now, but these brushes look like something worth trying.....

Thanks to Moray J. for posting!!!

 

good isolation footer?, posted on June 4, 2020 at 13:14:15
hifitommy
Audiophile

Posts: 15387
Location: canyon country califiornia, orig from buffalo ny
Joined: June 9, 2000
 i bought some 1/2 round sorbothane spheres from edmund scientific a long time ago, i just put 3 under my arc sp3a1 and like the idea. i haven't concentrated on any differences yet but that's coming.
...regards...tr

 

RE: Balls of Steel, posted on June 5, 2020 at 08:06:33
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Yeah thanks Moray!!

I am bald and buying brushes....

I have to say though that I added another Satic for the router and switches and put a bowl on the steel balls so its bowl/ball/bowl. This makes the components move alot less.

Anyhow things sound soo awesome. Smooth and black. Its the bass. Its soo detailed yet warm and the background is black man black.

On the BBE, I don't feel bad anymore. I was watching some youtube vids on mixing and man all that music is fake anyhow so no worries.

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: Balls of Steel, posted on June 5, 2020 at 17:00:00
old guy 42
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Location: Eastern Pa
Joined: August 12, 2012
Contributor
  Since: August 26, 2012
 Hey DR,

Glad your steel balls are working out for you!!

I just got an update from Amazon, and my nail brushes will be here Sunday! Looking forward to trying them on the dac and the max, at first. Should be fun!!

Now you have me thinking bout that Satic. I have 4 Quiet Lines in use now, but I would like to see if that Satic could improve things a little more. Maybe next month I will pick one up and find out.

Thanks for posting about the Satic!!...Stay safe!!...Long live the Max!!..LOL...

 

RE: Balls of Steel, posted on June 5, 2020 at 20:30:47
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Got my brushes today. I made a new thread about them with picts. The Max looks cool on its throne of brushes...

Be interesting to see if the Satic improves on the Quiet lines or doesn't do anything.

Its amazing how things add up to improve the sound.

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

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