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Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it

72.211.142.40

Posted on April 24, 2017 at 13:45:42
used-hifi
Audiophile

Posts: 1100
Location: Surprise AZ
Joined: March 18, 2003
Even for me a person who is very open to changing components wire etc you name it, because it can make differences

now I am fixing up one of my ref amplifiers and 2 of the fuses in the power supply were bad because of bad main capacitors so I installed new fuses,after powering it up and listening the damn thing was flipping bright sounding some upper distortion you can hear on FM only well my new fuses came in and I wanted to try these are from our now comrades USSR fuses and I am totally blown away those buss fuses really suck! I just cannot believe how much sound difference they can make

more detail about the buss fuses thes are silver metal wire inside that have kinks DON'T USE THEM!!! FLIPPIN GARBAGE

 

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RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 24, 2017 at 18:00:30
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
"Fuse makes wild differences in sound I cannot believe it"
neither will the people who will now post to you telling you that you are wrong.
moray james

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 24, 2017 at 18:47:36
I was thinking at one point that ceramic fuses would sound better than glass. When I put them in they ruined the sound. Did you get specific Russian fuses because they were said to sound good? Silver conductive grease will take them to the next level, IMHO of course. T456

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 24, 2017 at 19:15:53
used-hifi
Audiophile

Posts: 1100
Location: Surprise AZ
Joined: March 18, 2003
NO no this post was totally not about putting any fancy fuses in I bought some russian fuses because they were dirt cheap not because of anything sounding good, But I must say the amp now sounds like it should and NOT BRIGHT and NASTY

there could have been some manufacture issue with the buss fuses who knows but these russian fuses i put in because thats all i got!

now dont run about and buy up all these fuses...they are NOT an exactly size there metric you know, they are just long enough if you need snap in fuses but wont work in fuse holders because there too short.

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 24, 2017 at 20:26:34
"these are from our now comrades USSR fuses"

Well, I hope they're our "comrades", since they're the only way we have to get our astronauts to and from the International Space Station.

:)

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 24, 2017 at 21:11:20
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
you believe in the space station? I believe that fuses have an impact upon the sound but not in the ISS. I like the silver loaded dielectric also, I like the product made by MG Chemicals along with their 801B contact enhancer.
moray james

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 25, 2017 at 06:00:12
throwback
Audiophile

Posts: 762
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 8, 2003
I thought: "How can a one-inch piece of wire make any difference at all? Ridiculous!" Then a friend insisted that I try Audio Magic fuses. So I did: I started with my DSA Phono II preamp. Damn!

So I put them into my DSA Pre 1 preamp. Double damn!

So I put them into the audio circuits of my Atma Sphere MA-1 OTL's.

Tripl . . . OK, you get the idea. Then I swapped them all out for the ones packed with beeswax, and they sounded even better.

But, of course, "How can a one-inch . . . ?

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 25, 2017 at 08:25:09
"you believe in the space station?"

Ha! You're a funny guy. Here ya go:

https://spotthestation.nasa.gov/

:)

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 25, 2017 at 08:27:22
Q : But of course, "How can a one-inch ... ?

A : Because you want them to! ;-)

Cheers,
SB

 

A case study..., posted on April 25, 2017 at 08:55:39
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
I have long been a sceptic on fuses, an agnostic at best. But last year, I was in a room with 3-4 well respected and rather well known audiophiles, two of whom are in the business. We were listening to a "high end" system that used a passive linestage. The linestage was electrified only to provide a power source for a db meter installed into its faceplate. No part of the linestage per se was connected to AC, otherwise. The owner of the system had just received some expensive boutique fuses. So we were joking about trying out the fuses in the AC supply to the passive linestage. This we did do after an hour or more of listening to the system with its OEM fuses, which were nothing special in terms of cost or construction. A priori we all agreed that we were not going to hear any difference due to the introduction of the expensive fuse, because the fuse was not really in the audio circuit. But we did; all 4 of us agreed that we did. What we heard was that the expensive fuse did not sound as good as the cheap fuse. We verified the observation by switching back to the original fuse, after about 20-30 minutes of listening to the boutique fuse, an ABA comparison. Things got better with the cheap fuse re-inserted. So, now I believe that fuses can make a difference but the difference is not necessarily correlated with cost of the fuse.

 

RE: A case study..., posted on April 25, 2017 at 10:16:50
"well respected audiophiles?" Man, am I jealous!

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 25, 2017 at 16:07:18
throwback
Audiophile

Posts: 762
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 8, 2003
And maybe you don't WANT them to . . .

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 26, 2017 at 06:37:56
vinnie2
Audiophile

Posts: 4481
Location: North Carolina
Joined: September 28, 2013
It's really simple guys.....
do whatever the #@%* sounds good to YOUR ears. It doesn't matter what it sounds like to anyone else, and conversely, what sounds good to someone else's ears may not sound good to yours.

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 26, 2017 at 08:48:22
"And maybe you don't WANT them to ..."

Me? I've never tried them *:-)

Cheers,
SB

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on April 26, 2017 at 09:15:37
Jack D II
Audiophile

Posts: 1535
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Joined: June 17, 2009
I used Craig contact enhancers for years until I found 801B contact cleaner and enhancer. The immediate result was much clear, cleaner sound. The Craig was like shellac. Over the years and after trying other like products, 801B is superior.

 

AMEN brother! nt, posted on April 26, 2017 at 09:22:24
.

 

Yep....it's all about personal preference. [nt], posted on April 26, 2017 at 11:08:23
alan m. kafton
Manufacturer

Posts: 5285
Joined: April 7, 2000
.

 

Fuses are safety protection devices!, posted on April 26, 2017 at 11:48:09
gusser
Audiophile

Posts: 3649
Location: So. California
Joined: September 6, 2006
The established fuse manufactures such as listed in this thread all have UL and other world safety certification for their products. There is also a lot of physics and engineering that goes into a so called cheap fuse. The blow time for example. The ability of the casing to withstand exlposive energy such as a 1,000 amp surge - yes that can happen.

Now do these tiny garage operations making audiophile fuses have these certifications? Have they done the engineering and research to ensure their product offers the protection it is sold to provide?

If all that matters is the ultimate audio quality, then why not just buy some 1/4 inch copper rod and snap it in the fuse holder. Better yet just cut out the fuse holder and solder around it - no need for those nasty fuse contacts in the way of audio nirvana. When the gear burns up possibly taking your house with it, well just tell everyone it's all about audio quality, nothing esle matters.

Seriously, the fuse is there for the protection of the product and beyond meaning personal safety. Why compromise that with un-tested and un-certified after market components?

 

I have to agree. The aftermarket fuses are not 'rated', just made up.., posted on April 26, 2017 at 15:25:37
Agree that a fuse has specific characteristics which the product designer used to decide what sort of, and what value fuse to use in the component to protect that device.

Even the same sort of cheap standard fuse CAN SOUND BETTER if you increase the size or amp rating/load it carries before blowing. (And IMO, plenty of the audiophile aftermarket use THAT characteristic to sell 'better' sounding fuses) problem is that also defeats the basic protection. Now in fact the bigger rated fuse may also be capable of protecting the item.. But it is taking a chance the designer did not want to take.

On the other side no one is screaming about how their XYZ blew up and turned to ashes due to the aftermarket fuse not protecting it..
So the whole thing may be of no importance.

 

RE: A case study..., posted on April 26, 2017 at 16:43:34
axolotl
Audiophile

Posts: 3955
Location: So. California
Joined: September 10, 2002
Maybe even a little incredulous?


axolotl

 

RE: A case study..., posted on April 26, 2017 at 16:46:36
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
I guess that sounds pedantic or pompous. Sorry for that. I could not think of another way to say that 2 out of the 5 guys present were professionals most would recognize by name. The other 3 were me, my friend who owns the system that was being auditioned, and another well known local (suburban Maryland) audiophile (well known among local audiophiles and a very nice guy). I don't often rub elbows with the cognoscenti, but the system under audition lives up the street from me, and its owner and I are longtime friends. (It seems to me there might have been another guy there who writes for Positive Feedback, but I'm not sure.)

 

Do you mean "incredible", as in "unbelievable"?, posted on April 26, 2017 at 16:48:51
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
It's irrelevant to me, one way or the other, but I am curious what you meant to say. Having heard the story, you are welcome to be "incredulous", but I don't know why I would make up such a thing.

 

RE: Do you mean "incredible", as in "unbelievable"?, posted on April 26, 2017 at 22:00:43
Methinks he dosn't believe you.

 

Let's assume that I made up the whole thing..., posted on April 27, 2017 at 06:55:53
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
Why would I do that? I admit that my a priori bias and everyone else's bias was that we would hear no difference with the boutique fuse, as the circuit is not in the signal path. So why would I make it up? I mention it because it is an interesting result, for other audiophiles and tweakers. It should be especially interesting to those who are slaves to expensive tweaks.

Some many years ago, I did an experiment with power cords on my ESL speakers. My bias going in to that experiment was that power cords on an ESL bias supply should not be audible. I borrowed a few different AC cords from a dealer friend and one from an audiophile friend. To those I added the AC cord supplied by the manufacturer (Sound Lab) and a heavy gauge hardware store cord. I think I had about six different power cords, in total. To my surprise, you CAN hear the power cord on an ESL, and there were 2 out of 6 that sounded best to my ears: one was a ribbon-type (Mapleshade) and the other was the hardware store cord. There wasn't much difference between those two, but they both seemed to outperform the other aftermarket cords, one of which was truly bad sounding, as I recall. So, being an anal audiophile, I bought the Mapleshade instead of taking the cheaper route of using the hardware store cord.

Both experiences tell me that you have to try these devices in your own system with your own ears. Results can be surprising and not proportional to cost.

 

Good fuses sound better, posted on April 27, 2017 at 08:57:36
hawkmoon
Audiophile

Posts: 903
Location: cleveland
Joined: July 11, 2003
Have you ever compared fuses in your equipment?

 

RE: Good fuses sound better, posted on April 27, 2017 at 15:54:36
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
The notion of a fuse sounding like anything is beyond some folk's comprehension. Every bit of wire and anything else in the signal chain including upstream AC delivery makes a difference, one way or another.

 

RE: Good fuses sound better, posted on April 27, 2017 at 18:11:26
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 366
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
So when it comes to power stations, is there any consensus? Is Nuclear better than Coal, or does Hydro beat both? How about Solar (for daytime listening I guess).

 

RE: Good fuses sound better, posted on April 27, 2017 at 18:57:16
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
Downstream power supplies react to local AC delivery systems in a manner that audiophiles can try to address. End-users have no control over the quality of upstream power stations.

 

RE: Good fuses sound better, posted on April 27, 2017 at 19:28:41
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 366
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
They could move to a location where the power comes (predominantly) from the preferred power station type...just that there doesn't seem to be a consensus. Do hydro power stations give a more fluid sound? Are coal fired too dark? Perhaps nuclear has the best bass?

 

RE: Good fuses sound better, posted on April 27, 2017 at 19:32:29
Duster
Manufacturer

Posts: 17117
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
If you are being serious, I don't understand.

 

RE: Fuses are safety protection devices!, posted on April 28, 2017 at 05:52:35
throwback
Audiophile

Posts: 762
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 8, 2003
The Audio Magic fuses that I use are standard UL-approved fuses. A hole is drilled in the case to introduce two kinds of damping ingredients: some sort of powder to reduce RFI/EMI and beeswax to reduce mechanical vibrations.

I do not know if or how these ingredients affect the safety performance of the fuse. I have had no problems so far.

They sound better to me than the stock fuses did. I started with one Audio Magic fuse to check it out and ended up replacing fuses in several components. I have not tried other "boutique" fuses.

 

No, Lew, honestly..., posted on April 30, 2017 at 10:26:57
axolotl
Audiophile

Posts: 3955
Location: So. California
Joined: September 10, 2002
I was simply reacting - albeit not responding - to the statement that you were "in a room with 3-4 well respected and rather well known audiophiles, two of whom are in the business" - nothing more, nothing less.

This was prior to your acknowledgement that the comment might sound pompous or pedantic.

I have no - read, NO - issue with your anecdotal experience.

Glory, now I wish I wasn't such a smart-ass.

I am in the debt of brighter minds, here. I will go back to my position as one of the pupils, unless I am told to sit in the corner. The corner nodes are just too much for my tinnitus.

axolotl

 

LOL. Hifi in a nutshell :-) nt, posted on May 1, 2017 at 16:07:04
nt

 

No apology needed., posted on May 2, 2017 at 08:24:50
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
If I want to be offended, I can just turn on Fox News.
I thought it was pertinent to mention that the other persons present when the incident took place were audio smarties, technically more knowledgeable and certainly more widely experienced than I. (One of them was the actual designer and builder of the passive preamplifier we were listening to.) That was to lend credence to the story. Yet there was no dispute among us; all 4 or 5 of us heard the fuse effect exactly the same way. Even to the point that we all agreed on WHY the sound of the boutique fuse was not as good as that of the hardware store fuse. Further, I think the fact that we ABA'd the two fuses is also supportive of the conclusion that "something" was going on. Albeit, the test was not blinded, which would have been better.

My a priori bias was that the fuse could not possibly make a difference, since it was not in any way in the signal path or even subserving the signal path. Others felt the same. (I guess by now I have repeated myself here.)

 

RE: Good fuses sound better, posted on May 3, 2017 at 07:37:34
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 9605
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
April 5, 2002
I'm pretty sure he's yanking yer chain, Duster. That Mad Scientist has demonstrated a sense of humor before. I could be way off base, but I chuckled at his first post.

 

RE: Good fuses sound better, posted on May 3, 2017 at 07:39:45
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 9605
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
April 5, 2002
Hey, I really like that graphene stuff. Got the email last night about the updated application instructions. Thanks for sending that. The foam tipped lip brush seems by far the best tool to apply it with ... at least that's been my experience so far.

 

RE: I have to agree. The aftermarket fuses are not 'rated', just made up.., posted on May 3, 2017 at 10:26:34
"On the other side no one is screaming about how their XYZ blew up and turned to ashes due to the aftermarket fuse not protecting it..
So the whole thing may be of no importance."
Of course an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. This is Gusser's point although the poobahs seem to want to dismiss it and extol the virtues of their tweeks.

 

RE: I have to agree. The aftermarket fuses are not 'rated', just made up.., posted on May 3, 2017 at 12:26:13
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
although the poobahs seem to want to dismiss it and extol the virtues of their tweeks

Has anyone produced any evidence that "audiophile" fuses do not comply with the relevant regs? I've not seen any or read of anyone bothering to show it to us poobahs.

After all, if one were wanting to sell such devices, who else would one ask to manufacture them other than, er, recognised makers of consumer-grade fuses? They have the machinery, they have manufacturing experience and they'll have forgotten more about fuses than the rest of us ever want to know. "Yes, of course we can make better fuses and if you stay for lunch I'll explain why but we can't do it at those prices. You're talking of maybe £1 a unit even in bulk. It's as easy as falling off a log but it isn't cheap."

Or something.

 

comply? no one has bothered to show they do comply. , posted on May 3, 2017 at 13:00:10
The offer a 'rating' as a statement. With no effort to show the fuses were ever tested bu any certification process.
So you basically take the aftermarket fuse makers 'word' that they are as claimed.
On the oter side, as I mentioned, over value fuses usually still protect stuff just fine.
And one of my points was that just sticking a larger value commercial fuse does the same wonder improvement for a fraction of the price.
So my thought is.. All the fancy fuses DO is insert a bigger actual value, and charge 50 times the price.

Since they do not have the fuses tested to prove they are the value claimed... Maybe I am right?

 

RE: comply? no one has bothered to show they do comply. , posted on May 3, 2017 at 16:46:47
" over value fuses usually still protect stuff just fine." Get ready for the firestorm #5. You sure about that? There's plenty of folks around here that don't like that kind of talk. Maybe they're right. There is one thing for sure,they will protect stuff just fine if nothing goes wrong. T456

 

"they will protect stuff just fine if nothing goes wrong" yup. same to be said for fancy fuses LOL nt, posted on May 4, 2017 at 08:32:47
.

 

RE: Fuse make wild differences in sound I cannot believe it, posted on May 8, 2017 at 09:10:55
navman
Audiophile

Posts: 1264
Location: U.S.A.
Joined: January 26, 2009
I tried some SR blacks. Put them in my amp and preamp. Made a big difference.

I had borrowed an MSB Analog DAC powerbase to try instead of the brick power supply. The powerbase sounded better than the brick, but what I wasn't expecting was upgrading its fuse revealed more detail, and clarity without sounding harsh or gritty at all. I was not expecting the amount of difference. A fuse skeptic was with me that day and he was very surprised at how much improvement came about.

I don't understand why a fuse would make a difference, but it does.
navman

 

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