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Raytheon 12AX7A US vs Raytheon 12AX7A Japan

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Posted on October 20, 2020 at 23:30:22
slovell1
Audiophile

Posts: 497
Location: Chesnee, South Carolina
Joined: October 11, 2008
Do these tubes sound the same? They both look the same with O getters and gray plates. I've got a couple of pairs of the US version and I've run across two pairs of the Japanese version but I'm hesitant to get them if they won't match up soundwise with the US ones.

 

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pic of both ?, posted on October 21, 2020 at 02:56:05
Story
Audiophile

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Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
would be helpful



 

RE: Raytheon 12AX7A US vs Raytheon 12AX7A Japan, posted on November 4, 2020 at 09:52:14
el34eh@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1933
Location: Michigan
Joined: September 6, 2003


Please save your money........, say Japanese versions are Hitachi, whom bought out Raytheon during the mid 60s, and having owned other Japanese makes from the likes of TEN Kobe | NEC ( set up by Western Electric during the late 40s ) | Toshiba | Matashita(? Aka Japanese Mullard ) which are remarkable sounding tubes in their own rights.

All that to say Hitachi tubes on a whole from this period, sounded rather hollow sounding throughout. Raytheon on its own......., let's just say to my senses is well behind brands like RCA NOS 1950-55 Long Black Carbonized Plates | Sq Getter | Sylvania LBP | Westinghouse from the same period are all outstanding, as are the Ken-Rad's made between 1947-49, provided one can find quiet ones that is?.

 

RE: Raytheon 12AX7A US vs Raytheon 12AX7A Japan, posted on November 4, 2020 at 17:10:53
slovell1
Audiophile

Posts: 497
Location: Chesnee, South Carolina
Joined: October 11, 2008
I really like the sound from the USA Raytheon 12AX7 long black plates. They, soundwise, blow away any Russian reissue I've heard and that's most of them. I haven't heard the RCA black plates as they cost way more than I'm willing to spend on a tube.

 

RE: Raytheon 12AX7A US vs Raytheon 12AX7A Japan, posted on November 5, 2020 at 07:31:43
el34eh@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1933
Location: Michigan
Joined: September 6, 2003




It's ones willingness to invest in their system | themselves which counts in our shared hobby. As I often tell a few friends of mine whom claim they've a box load of tubes......., yet in my mind they've the wrong ones.

Case in point, many aren't aware just how nice these tubes shown below are:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CSF-Thomson-France-12AX7S-FRS-7508-1-code-ECC803S-strong-matched-tubes/124281266964

But those will the funds | knowledge buy them without blinking an eye, and more often then not, only pursue the very best versus commonly found........, which is why they're there to begin with, those in the know, simply don't want them, and are willing once again to invest in their tube gear that relies upon it.

And while I'm able to enjoy Russian power tubes ( KT77 | KT88 and so ) very few of their signal tubes, or Chinese made ones are within spitting distance of our amp that uses them, not along our home......., said system if one wishes to explore said possibilities?, generally spend it, as I'd rather invest $200 on a pair of tubes which might outlive me, as opposed to ones which might last 18 months, if that?.

 

RE: Raytheon 12AX7A US vs Raytheon 12AX7A Japan, posted on November 7, 2020 at 09:00:22
el34eh@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1933
Location: Michigan
Joined: September 6, 2003




Oh......., I guess in hindsight I should've added a listing of said tubes I've owned | sold in the past, which shows I've in fact explored some brands others have chosen not to invest in for the sake of knowing:

https://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/Tubes/Thomson-CSF-NEC-TEN-Kobe-Tungsram/12A_7-Types./Various./174890

 

RE: Raytheon 12AX7A US vs Raytheon 12AX7A Japan, posted on November 15, 2020 at 00:15:59
slovell1
Audiophile

Posts: 497
Location: Chesnee, South Carolina
Joined: October 11, 2008
These are your opinions, and you're entitled to them, but what do they have to do with my original question? Have you even tried or heard the Raytheon USA Black Plates that you just dismissed as unworthy? I just wanted to find out if there are differences in the sound between the Japanese and USA versions. The ones that I own have lasted far, far longer than 18 months and sound very, very good. They don't cost $200 to $350 a pair either.

 

RE: Raytheon 12AX7A US vs Raytheon 12AX7A Japan, posted on November 15, 2020 at 03:15:08
el34eh@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1933
Location: Michigan
Joined: September 6, 2003




Maybe I should point out......., " first and foremost, aren't all of our responses, based upon our opinions. ", and seeming that I began tube rolling back in 2003, and was more than willing to invest in at least 37 different brands at this particular period in life, it goes without saying I've heard just about every vintage of said Raytheon's ( the original ones made around 1952 with the orangish red text | logo - ones with red text | logo - the early to mid 60s versions with yellow text | logo......., hence Hitachi ", and never once questioned what I heard, and larger on preferred.

Yet aren't you the one asking how said latter version sounds?, I'd have to assume you haven't heard them?, why else would someone than be asking others " how they sound, or differ? ", or am I missing something?.

To my way of believing music should be rendered......., let's just say I much prefer of the American makes I've owned RCA | Sylvania | Hytron - CBS | even Westinghouse offered a better sense of Fidelity as well as balance, the key is understanding the strengths | weaknesses of each brand | then using each collectively to create a certain signature, if you were to read upon the creator of Shindo Labs tube gear, his name escapes me, but he spent his childhood studying said difference tonal | timbre wise if every tube brand | capacitor known to mankind, and to this very day to " my ears which is where it counts, for me! " a balance between olde world Classic tube sound, where it blends perfectly with modern tube gear which sounds more and more solid state with each passing decade since 1995.

Yet at the end of the day we much each ask ourselves........, have we only followed common rules?, as opposed to boarding our minds just enough to explore the possibilities of what could be, based upon cost?, or merely ones lack of knowledge of what's out there?.

Not I, I'd far rather know what I speak of, prior to even opening my moth, but as always that's how I roll......., truthfully that is.

I'd end this by saying " if you like them?, why waste time stock up ", hence one of the reasons I've owned 150 pairs of preamp tubes at one point or another in this life, I speak from knowing what's what, not because of what others have had to teach me.

 

Raytheon USA Black Plates? I have ... and they are superb rarely found in Baldwin organs~nT, posted on November 21, 2020 at 12:41:34
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 7550
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

RE: Raytheon USA Black Plates? I have ... and they are superb rarely found in Baldwin organs~nT, posted on November 21, 2020 at 13:09:50
slovell1
Audiophile

Posts: 497
Location: Chesnee, South Carolina
Joined: October 11, 2008
I've collected several pairs of the 12AX7, 12AU7, and 12AT7 black plate Raytheon/Baldwin USA versions. I use them in my Jolida Fusion preamp, JD9 phono pre, and my JD100 cdp. They sound very good, better that anything else I've tried in them and I've tried a bunch. IMHO they're the best sounding tubes I've heard in my Jolidas and you can't beat the price. I've also got one pair of the 12AX7 short gray plates version but don't like them as much as the black plates. Highs are slightly rolled off, mids are more prominent, bass is also slightly rolled off. Still a nice sounding pair of tubes but not as good as the black plates.

 

This is the one you want......., posted on December 19, 2020 at 12:39:36
Mendel
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Location: GTA
Joined: January 17, 2009



Black plate, bent square getter.

 

RE: This is the one you want......., posted on December 19, 2020 at 12:59:03
slovell1
Audiophile

Posts: 497
Location: Chesnee, South Carolina
Joined: October 11, 2008
Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for a pair. I don't recall seeing any of them for sale.

 

RE: This is the one you want......., posted on December 31, 2020 at 00:43:36
slovell1
Audiophile

Posts: 497
Location: Chesnee, South Carolina
Joined: October 11, 2008
What's the difference in sound between the bent square getters and the O getter version?

 

RE: This is the one you want......., posted on January 2, 2021 at 10:07:26
Mendel
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Location: GTA
Joined: January 17, 2009



The o getter version came afterwards in the 1960s.
Still a very good tube, much more available than the earlier version. Just not quite as good as the bent square getter version.
All the Raytheon black plate 12ax7s and 5751s are good tubes.

 

RE: This is the one you want......., posted on January 4, 2021 at 17:32:29
slovell1
Audiophile

Posts: 497
Location: Chesnee, South Carolina
Joined: October 11, 2008
I've got four pairs of them, all long black plates with bent square getters, on the way. Ran across them on Ebay for $130 and jumped on them. Looking forward to hearing them vs the halos.

 

RE: This is the one you want......., posted on January 10, 2021 at 17:57:10
slovell1
Audiophile

Posts: 497
Location: Chesnee, South Carolina
Joined: October 11, 2008
I tried a pair in my headphone amp today and I'm impressed. They have a little bit more of everything vs the halo getters. It's not dramatic but I can definitely hear the improvements. The bass is fuller and tighter, mids are better, the highs are more distinct with a little more sparkle. Thanks for bringing them to my attention.

 

RE: This is the one you want......., posted on January 11, 2021 at 11:49:22
Mendel
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Location: GTA
Joined: January 17, 2009
Glad they worked out for you.
Have you tried any 5751 in your 12ax7 spots? A useable sub in nearly any circuit. The Raytheon black plate "windmill getter" 5751 is an even better tube IMO. Enjoy the roll!

 

RE: This is the one you want......., posted on January 11, 2021 at 11:55:24
slovell1
Audiophile

Posts: 497
Location: Chesnee, South Carolina
Joined: October 11, 2008
I've tried some GE JAN 5751 triple mica black plates. They sounded decent but not on the same level with the Raytheons IMHO.

 

RE: This is the one you want......., posted on January 11, 2021 at 16:28:58
slovell1
Audiophile

Posts: 497
Location: Chesnee, South Carolina
Joined: October 11, 2008
At $450 a matched pair I don't think I'll be trying any windmill getters unless I hit the lottery.lol

 

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