Tubes Asylum

Questions about tubes and gear that glows. FAQ

Return to Tubes Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

seeking first tube amplifier advice

107.77.215.38
Posted on October 11, 2020 at 08:26:05
catbert242000@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 268
Location: Puerto Rico
Joined: April 17, 2006
 Hi,
I'm looking for advice on selecting my first tube amplifier.

My music system (excluding the home theater which is a HK AVR) is / was a Marantz 2238B, Technics SL1300, and Altec (Valencia based) home built speakers I constructed with Altec components.

I was happy...untill the Marantz died last week :( Dead right channel. I plan to have the Marantz rebuilt, but until that can happen (its a long story) I need a new way to play my vinyl.

My Choices are:

1) Buy a pre amp input to allow the phono to play on the Harmon Kardon (no phone input). And live with the result.

2) Buy a new amp that will replace the Marantz - either permanently, or until the Marantz is rebuilt. (which may take a long time)

I could buy a straight up solid state integrated amp like a NAD or Yamaha for about $600 or 700.
or a tube amp, which I would like to try.

Since my speakers are very efficient, I don't need high power (although I like good power).

My budget is about $1000 or less.

I would love to try before I buy - but that seems like an impossible dream.

Tell me what your experience suggests. New solid state or a tube?? If tube, which one??

thanks in advance.












 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
Hard to find a tube amp for 1K new., posted on October 11, 2020 at 08:39:55
viridian
 But I would have a look at the Kingko 101, which has support in the U.S. Willsenton and Yaquin are possible Chinese amps. Very nice amp, but no phono stage. You can find used Line Magnetic push-pull amps for right around 1k, again, no phono stage. Maybe a Used Rogue Cronus around your budget. Then there are refurbished vintage amps like Scott and Fisher in your price range, all with phono stages.

 

RE: seeking first tube amplifier advice, posted on October 11, 2020 at 08:49:07
Nunki
Audiophile

Posts: 644
Joined: November 27, 2010
 i am afraid youŽll get 1 mill. + one gentle suggestions here and finally be more confused than determined. but as you asked in this tube asylum you might prefer or be keen on a tube amp. and you would not regret! but your budget will limit your choices defintely.
for 1000 bucks you will surely get some chinese stuff with good reputation or 2nd hand gear.

N.


 

RE: seeking first tube amplifier advice, posted on October 11, 2020 at 09:15:24
catbert242000@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 268
Location: Puerto Rico
Joined: April 17, 2006
 well... what would be recommended if the budget was $1500??

 

RE: seeking first tube amplifier advice, posted on October 11, 2020 at 11:41:50
Nunki
Audiophile

Posts: 644
Joined: November 27, 2010
 sorry, i am not an expert. other members will surely help you or even offer a good 2nd hand "alrounder" as your starter.

 

RE: "Altec (Valencia based) home built speakers I constructed with Altec components", posted on October 11, 2020 at 11:44:10
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Tube amp friendly.

Seems a waste to drive it with a SS amp.

Most folks are locked into SS power by their speaker choices. You have the luxury selecting a relatively low power tube amp and enjoy a bit of tube-magic.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

I see an Anthem Amp-1 for sale on eBay, posted on October 11, 2020 at 12:01:55
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15167
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 I use it in my main system. It is excellent. I really like the EL34 sound. I suppose there are Chinese amps available for < $1000 and there is a PrimaLuna that is highly regarded (< $2K ?).

The asking price is OK if it is in pristine condition. Knock $100 off and it would be a deal certainly. IMO, audiophiles won't pay more than that because it is not a prestige brand, but that also keeps the lid on prices.

You have to supply your own preamplifier though.

 

RE: seeking first tube amplifier advice, posted on October 11, 2020 at 13:43:51
immatthewj
 I did a quick search on Music Direct (and for the record, I have no affiliation with MD) & this is one of the amps that came up.

https://www.musicdirect.com/Search?searchterm=tube%20amp&sort=popularity%7CDESC&page=1&pagesize=24&c1=tab-products&c2=grid

MD does have a 60 day no questions asked time period which I, personbally, have not tested, but judging from the number of open box specials they list, they must honor it.

Here is a preowned from Cary Direct

https://carydirect.com/certified-pre-owned/hercules.html

& I know that they USED to advertise an audion period, but I am not sure if that still applies. You could try giving them a call & they would probably tell you (unlike when you now call them for tech support).

Here is an integrated from Cary Direct that is in your price range. (I also have no affiliation with Cary, except as an owner of four of their products who is no longer thrilled with their tech support. That could just be me, though.) Again, I am not sure whether they still offer an in home audition period, but it might be worth a phone call.

https://carydirect.com/certified-pre-owned/sli-30-271.html

Hmmmm . . . on edit & addendum: I just took another look at Cary's site, & they say that they offer a 30 day in home for all NEW products. making me think that this excludes their preowned section. Still might be worth a call.

 

RE: seeking first tube amplifier advice, posted on October 11, 2020 at 15:58:35
immatthewj
 Oops.
I just reread your OP.
You need an integrated with a phono-stage for $1000 to $1500?
I am not sure, but I think that this may be a tough tube bill to fill.

 

RE: seeking first tube amplifier advice, posted on October 11, 2020 at 22:05:23
tubular.well
Dealer

Posts: 223
Joined: March 4, 2013
 Get a Dynaco SCA-35 in original form. It has RIAA input and delivers
2 x 17w to speakers.
An original SCA-35 is easier to sell later then a modified or "improved".
EFB excluded, that's an real improvement and easily removed if so
inclined.
An SCA-35 could be found for $400 - $600.

 

RE: seeking first tube amplifier advice, posted on October 11, 2020 at 22:41:40
immatthewj
 This guy wanted $875 Canadian for his Dynaco. (About $657 US.)

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649523297-dynaco-sca-35/

 

RE: seeking first tube amplifier advice, posted on October 12, 2020 at 01:45:48
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 Also, MANY Carey items badly abuse vacuum rectifiers. :>((


Eli D.

 

RE: seeking first tube amplifier advice, posted on October 12, 2020 at 02:04:31
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 1st, get your "vinyl" listening going again, quickly. Jim Hagerman's Bugle3 will, while sounding good, affordably do that for you and it will be synergistic with a tubed "integrated" amp you then acquire, at relative leisure.

The intersection of tubed desires and budget realities is DIY. There are any number of DIY possibilities available that will leave cash on the table to buy music "software". All you need in the way of instrumentation to construct the "El Cheapo" I'm associated with is a digital multi-meter (DMM). Plenty of "hand holding" is available here at AA, on the Tube DIY "board" and elsewhere on the WWW.


Eli D.

 

Do you have one listening room or two?, posted on October 12, 2020 at 09:00:01
andy evans
Audiophile

Posts: 4382
Joined: October 20, 2000
 I'm not totally following this - you already have a home theatre system. Do you want a second system to listen in another room?

If the second system is for the Altecs, I would go straight to a single ended amp (SE) most likely with a 300b output tube, or consider a 2a3 if it will do the job - a bit less output.

The hi-fi world is flooded with 300b amps for good reason - it's a great sounding output tube. Specially on vocals, which with a good 300b amp can sound quite magical. There are various Chinese examples at several price points. I'd prefer the point-to-point wired ones to the PCB ones since they offer the option of upgrading parts more easily.

https://www.china-hifi-audio.com/en/oldchen-tube-amplifier-laochen-c-74

https://www.hifi-amplifiers.com/en/oldchen-tube-amplifierslaochen-c-118/oldchen-300b-tube-amplifier-hifi-singleended-class-a-handmade-amp-p-5332.html

I believe Bottlehead do a 2a3 amp in your budget and that might be a good place to start, since it's parafeed and that can sound nice. Their 300b amp is a bit pricey.

https://bottlehead.com/product/stereomour-ii-stereo-single-ended-integrated-2a3-amp/

Otherwise look for used 300b examples with good transformers. They will be the best value, and something should come in around $1,000.

 

$1000 will give you a choice of, posted on October 12, 2020 at 09:49:33
Ross
Audiophile

Posts: 1814
Joined: January 24, 2000
 several excellent restored vintage integrated tube amps, each with a phono stage.

Fisher 400 and 500c
Fisher X2020b or X202c
Scott LK72 and 299c
Sherwood S5000

All will deliver between 25-35 wpc.

Lower power options include:

Fisher X100 and X101
Scott 200 and 222
Heathkit AA151, using some of the best output transformers of the time

Aforementioned Dynaco SCA35, which also used excellent output transformers.

And my favorite: Eico HF810

Benefit of choosing restored vintage is the equipment will hold value, allowing you to listen to several amps over time, without loosing any money beyond your initial investment.

SET would be an excellent choice for your speakers. There are several very good options floating around in your budget range. I would look for an used amp at around $750-$800, then spend $200-$250 on a used phono stage.

If you want the EL 34 sound then a rebuilt Dynaco ST70 and VanAlstine Super PAS3 should come in just under $1000 and sound wonderful.

There are many Jolida, Cayin, Prima Luna EL34 amps floating around, and available for less than $1k.

Sit back and enjoy !

 

RE: Do you have one listening room or two?, posted on October 12, 2020 at 12:14:58
catbert242000@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 268
Location: Puerto Rico
Joined: April 17, 2006
 Hi,

Both the HT system and the 2 channel stereo are in my entertainment center in the living room. Same listening room.

The HT is powered by a HK7550HD AVR. It does not have a phono pre amp built in.

The Marantz 2238B powered the two channel with the TT. But the Marantz is down with one channel out (repair will take long time)

So, in order to play vinyl, I can add a pre amp and run the TT through the HK and listen to SS phono OR get another amp (tube) for the TT.

I think that a tube amp may be interesting to listen to vinyl, but the cost is a consideration.

looking for advice on choices.

thanks

 

RE: "Altec (Valencia based) home built speakers I constructed with Altec components", posted on October 12, 2020 at 12:29:49
catbert242000@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 268
Location: Puerto Rico
Joined: April 17, 2006
 Ivan,

Really spot on with your comment. I'm going to shoot for a tube solution.

 

RE: Do you have one listening room or two?, posted on October 12, 2020 at 12:57:30
immatthewj
 Just to clarify: you don't currently have an operational phono stage (input)?

So are you looking for a "tube amp" (in which case you will need a preamp with a phono stage)?

Or are you looking for a tube integrated that features a phono stage?

 

RE: Do you have one listening room or two?, posted on October 12, 2020 at 14:03:20
catbert242000@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 268
Location: Puerto Rico
Joined: April 17, 2006
 yes, I will need a phono pre amp and a power amplifier for tubes. I have seen some tube amps with built in phono pre amp - "integrated". Would consider both options.

I might like to get a pre amp that would work in a tube system and also work to feed the signal into the AVR as a starting point.

Open to suggestions for a pre amp that would be suitable. (my speakers are 8ohm) The TT is a MM cartridge.


By going with a pre amp for the phono it is more flexible to run the TT on different amps if needed?

you guys are really helpful! Thanks!

 

RE: Do you have one listening room or two?, posted on October 12, 2020 at 15:35:30
immatthewj
 I was a tad confused by some of your posts, but that's probably on me (confusion is part of aging).

If you were doing "separates" (a preamp AND an amp) you could choose from several combinations (SS pre with tube amp or tube pre with SS amp or both a tubed pre & a tubed amp) as long as your preamp section has the phono stage that you wanted.

But I am not exactly sure what you are asking here:

"By going with a pre amp for the phono it is more flexible to run the TT on different amps if needed?"

If you want to listen to vynyl, you are going to absolutely have to have either a preamp with a phonostage or an integrated (unit with built in preamp AND amp) with a phonostage.

As far as flexibility goes, I'd say that separates offer you more flexibility, as you can upgrade one without the other (but that would have nothing to do with the ability to run a TT). There are probably advantages to both (or so I've read, not having ran anything integrated for almost 30 years). For examples, with separates you will obviously have separate power supplies, which should be cleaner. But with an integrated unit, however, you won't have to worry about the impedance matching between the preamp & the amp.

Cost is going to be a big difference. You should be able to get a quality integrated for much cheaper than you could buy a decent preamp AND a separate amp, not to mention not having to buy any expensive interconnects to hook the preamp to the amp with.

 

RE: Do you have one listening room or two?, posted on October 12, 2020 at 15:53:59
immatthewj
 "I might like to get a pre amp that would work in a tube system and also work to feed the signal into the AVR as a starting point."

"Open to suggestions for a pre amp that would be suitable. (my speakers are 8ohm) The TT is a MM cartridge."

Your 8 ohm speakers won't have any impact on your preamp and any tube amplifier that I can think of will be able to drive an 8 ohm load.

All the preamps that I can think of should work with a "tube system" (meaning tube amp?), some would probably work better than others due to input & output impedances, & as far as integrating that with an AVR, your 2 channel preamp with a phono stage (whether it is SS or tube) will only be inputting the signal into your 2 channel tube amp.

I haven't done HT since the days of VHS & Dolby Prologic, but if I remember correctly, with separates (which included a tube 2 channel preamp with phono stage) your audio-video source would go through a processor which would route some of the signal into one of the L & R line stage inputs of your pre (which would then go to your tube amp & then ultimately into your L & R main speakers), & then the processor would send the remaining AV inputs into still ANOTHER multichannel (probably SS) amp.

That would be one way to do it.

Or, the way I did it, way back when, was to buy an AV preamp & my first tube amp & two more solid state amps for my center channel & my rear speakers. The problem here, probably, would be that you would need to find an AV preamp with a phono stage. (My B&K did not have that.)

Now with all that typed, as HT evolved from Dolby Prologic & became more & more sophisticated, I ultimately gave up on audio-video & focused only on developing my 2 channel stereo system.

I wouldn't doubt that the equipment exists to meet all your objectives, but it is going to cost considerably more.

 

RE: seeking first tube amplifier advice, posted on October 12, 2020 at 17:56:33
immatthewj
 Now here's one

https://www.musicdirect.com/integrated-amp/Luxman-SQ-N150-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier

that meets a lot of your criteria.

Integrated tube preamp/amp with a mm/mc phono stage. Sold by Music Direct, so you have a 60 day in home audition period. As far as combining your HT experience with your tube-audiophile experience, I'd give up on that notion for the time being. Use your HK for HT, & when you are tube-audiophiling, just switch your speakers over.

Yes, at $2,800.00, it is slightly over budget. But Music Direct has a credit card application on their site, & when used in conjunction with a Music Direct purchase, you can get up to 18 months interest free. I am pretty sure that this one would qualify for the 18 month 0 interest.

Just throwing one out there. If you do some shopping, I am sure you can find a few similar options.

 

RE: $1000 will give you a choice of, posted on October 13, 2020 at 01:04:08
ivan_terrible
Industry Professional

Posts: 207
Location: Ivangorod
Joined: April 26, 2015
 Can't imagine why anyone would ever want an amp with EL34s in.
They never were really much good, and if you start to test one anywhere close to the limits the screen grids melt.

I agree about SCOTT, there's quite a few LK/222 series in with 7591.
You can buy them for next to nothing.
The 7591 always was a lot better than any EL34/6CA7 solution and the valves seem to last for ever.

Another sleeper is the good old Bogen 6AV5 based amps DB230.
They are getting harder to find, but sound gorgeous.

I make my own amp which is far better than either & is 3U format.
(50W RMS genuine per channel, with incredible linearity).

(It's plain, ultra discrete, has balanced inputs & has wifi/ethernet integrated to control it all.)



 

What Eli says - get a phono stage!, posted on October 13, 2020 at 01:47:06
andy evans
Audiophile

Posts: 4382
Joined: October 20, 2000
 Since all your listening is in one room, you only need a single system. So optimise all the parts of it. Use separates for flexibility, since you may well want to upgrade any part of it, plus some parts might need replacing or repairing.

If your Altec speakers are your main speakers, then use their sensitivity to choose a really good tube amp. I'd favour single ended like a 300b or even 2a3 if that's loud enough. But you've had suggestions for some nice push-pull amps, including vintage ones like Dynaco ST35 which is very sweet.

By keeping all your units as separates you can upgrade and play around with amplifier choices.

I wouldn't exclude some of the Pass solid state amps. Their SIT amps are amazing, though more expensive and probably hard to find used. Class A solid state amps can sound excellent.

 

RE: What Eli says - get a phono stage!, posted on October 13, 2020 at 15:21:55
immatthewj
 "Since all your listening is in one room, you only need a single system. So optimise all the parts of it. Use separates for flexibility, since you may well want to upgrade any part of it, plus some parts might need replacing or repairing."

Andy, OP states he is currently wanting to do HT & two channel vynyl & he currently has a HK AV receiver without a phono stage. For him, a single system would have to include an audio-video preamp WITH a phono stage (or one of those project boxes to go between his TT & his AV pre) PLUS the tube amp he wants.

That may be going significantly over the desired budget that he talked about in his OP.


 

RE: What Eli says - get a phono stage!, posted on October 13, 2020 at 19:39:09
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 FWIW, I previously linked Jim Hagerman's Bugle3 stand alone phono preamp. Jim cleverly used high quality opamp ICs and passive RIAA EQ to get something both good sounding and quite reasonable in cost. Another plus to the Bugle3 is selectable net gain.


Eli D.

 

RE: What Eli says - get a phono stage!, posted on October 13, 2020 at 19:49:49
immatthewj
 Could OP run Jim Hagerman's Bugle3 stand alone phono preamp into a set of the line level inputs of his Harmon Kardon audio video reciever?

 

RE: What Eli says - get a phono stage!, posted on October 13, 2020 at 21:48:34
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 Certainly!


Eli D.

 

RE: What Eli says - get a phono stage!, posted on October 14, 2020 at 10:40:55
immatthewj
 For $189.00, that resolves his vynyl issue & gives him a bunch of flexibility when it comes to delving into tube amps.

For $189.00, it might get me started down the road to vynyl.

 

RE: What Eli says - get a phono stage!, posted on October 14, 2020 at 21:24:14
immatthewj
 Eli, strictly out of curiosity, do you have any personal experience with that phono preamp? After reading the reviews, for $189, it sounds like a proverbial giant killer.

 

RE: What Eli says - get a phono stage!, posted on October 14, 2020 at 23:22:35
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 No personal experience. However, I do know folks who were quite satisfied with earlier versions of Hagerman's Bugle.


Eli D.

 

RE: seeking first tube amplifier advice, posted on October 15, 2020 at 15:34:39
immatthewj
 Catbert, let us know how your shopping progresses.

That stand alone phono stage that Eli suggested would certainly open up your amplifier options.

 

RE: $1000 will give you a choice of, posted on October 18, 2020 at 17:08:42
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12364
Joined: May 14, 2002
 The Sherwood S5000 is an EL84 amp. No way that is going much over 15 WPC. If it is one of the later series with 7591's maybe 20 wpc.

With $1k to spend, I'd build a 12B4 linestage, and learn something that can be used to resurrect a power amp later. Then spend the remaining $700 on a re-buildable amp, or set of monoblocks....or by that time, maybe just decide to build your own amps... :)
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

Page processed in 0.040 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]