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OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?

75.130.39.65
Posted on May 11, 2017 at 11:52:06
artemus
Audiophile

Posts: 15273
Joined: March 12, 2001
 I see them on Ebay,. They usually ship from Russia. Seem like decent tube sellers. Some even matched quads. But none from Jim McShane (I think) or any other tube supply house in the US (that I know of)

So why none from reputable sellers in the US? I bought my last ones from J McShane. But a bad rectifier took one out. Now I have 3 and need a 4th. Or a quad and a single. I'm not sure what to make of the ones on Ebay. I have a friend with a tube tester. But I'm not sure what to do with a set from Ebay, even if all is well. I can test them and match them (maybe). But I have separate bias adjustment for each tube (Latino ST-35)
Should I take the chance on the Ebay tubes? Check them to see if they work and are close in specs? Or should I leave them alone and stay with the Genelex KT-66?

Why none available in the US? Are they just not avail;able in the quantities needed to sell at a profit? Or are the ones left just not that good? Sorry if this has been answered. I've been gone for a good while.
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You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?

 

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RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 11, 2017 at 12:50:32
Jim McShane
Dealer

Posts: 5910
Location: Chicago
Joined: January 13, 2003
 Those tubes were old stock, produced in the old Soviet era. The supply has been heavily depleted so that's why I and some others no longer have them to offer. The remaining stock is being sold in small quantities as opposed to the situation 7-8 years ago when you could purchase 100s of them at a time.

BTW, the current version of the tube is the Sovtek 5881/6L6WGC. You can still buy the tube albeit under its new number.

 

Why: From my perspective, the whole thing was a bit of an Internet fad..., posted on May 11, 2017 at 13:04:24
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12383
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 ...Maybe Jim can jump in with his perspective. (Edit: I see Jim has done so). Also, for a while they were a bargain but word gets out and not so much a bargain any longer. Plus, the current mfg Sovtek 5881/6L6WGC is pretty much the same thing (although a few will vehemently argue against that observation). Consider too that there are other decent new mfg 6L6 types out there with ready supply and warranty.

Personally, I'd take the small chance with the Soviet Bloc eBay sellers. The ones I purchased were consistent and in good working order as received. Some have reported excess g1 current in a few of their samples but that hasn't been my experience.

As an aside, audiophillia seems susceptible to fads: ex. Oil filled motor run caps are falling out of favor as the go to for DIY and upgrade power supply filters. And so it goes.

 

When you asked this about a year and a half ago, posted on May 11, 2017 at 13:07:15
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 I thought you got some pretty good answers (link below).

As I mentioned at the time, I was looking for a single good one, and still am.

I thought SETdude summed it up pretty well in the thread the first time you asked it, "They have gotten pricey and perhaps Jim decided that selling them was no longer financially viable. In other words, with culls and testing the price would be too high."

And I posted in my reply to you, I had written Jim McShane, asking how "failure prone" the ebay tubes might be. His reply to me, copied and pasted here again is: "A good number of them were gassy until they were burned in. Those tubes would have been a real problem for an amp! Once burned in they were fine. So yes, I did have some [failures] and would have had more without my ability to run them in."

If you do find a reliable source for them, please let us know. I'd love to buy at least one to replace the one I broke, and if available a couple of quads.

Thanks.

 

RE: Why: From my perspective, the whole thing was a bit of an Internet fad..., posted on May 11, 2017 at 13:17:28
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10048
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 The eastern EU sellers have been really good through all my purchases. I bought more than 100 of the 6P3S-E several years ago from a Russian seller. Roughly 15-20 of the gassy ones wouldn't completely burn in, so I sent them back. He replaced them right away, and all the replacements were perfect. Wish now that I had bought more!

 

Now that's funny. Thank you for , posted on May 11, 2017 at 14:01:12
artemus
Audiophile

Posts: 15273
Joined: March 12, 2001
 not picking on an old fart who apparently forgot posting the question the 1st time. Your patience is duly noticed. My "old Fartism" is also duly noticed. I'll try to remember and NOT ask the same question again
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You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 11, 2017 at 14:06:13
artemus
Audiophile

Posts: 15273
Joined: March 12, 2001
 Thank you Jim. 73shovel has reminded me that I have asked this question before. I will try not to ask again. Though, old fartism is a terrible malady to overcome.
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You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 11, 2017 at 17:58:22
DannyR
Audiophile

Posts: 611
Joined: January 21, 2001
 Mikey bought them all...... I kid. Someone had to post it.

 

Cryoset has them..., posted on May 11, 2017 at 22:29:53
classfolkphile
Audiophile

Posts: 533
Location: Florida
Joined: December 17, 2002
 http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=335&osCsid=3rvaep5po8j1jfssbpmuk193s1

I bought a couple of quads from him and so far they've been good.

 

Patience? More like empathy!, posted on May 11, 2017 at 22:48:42
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 There was just enough spark left for me to remember that the question had been asked before, but hell, I thought I might have been the one who asked it.

After I found that I was one of several who replied, only then did I realize that it was you who started the thread.

And I was serious, if you find a reliable source for a few, please post and let us know.



 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 11, 2017 at 22:57:05
twystd
Audiophile

Posts: 2723
Location: Austin,Texas
Joined: December 9, 2000
 From one old fart to another, the only time I ever A/Bd the 6pse against the Sovtek 5881/6L6WGC was about 7 years ago, with several others present. The two tubes looked exactly alike, however they CERTAINLY didn't sound the same. The 6p3se sounded much better to all of us, the Sovtek 5881/6L6WGC sounded dull and lifeless in comparison.

My advice is to get a tested quad or two from an ebay eastern block seller with an excellent feedback rating. Look for pre Gorbachev era tubes (before 1984), the ones we tested were 1970s production. I believe there are several reasons the tube quality dropped off during the Gorby years, but that's for another post.

twystd

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 12, 2017 at 08:10:59
Jim McShane
Dealer

Posts: 5910
Location: Chicago
Joined: January 13, 2003
 Many (most?) of the 1970s and earlier production tubes were not made at Saratov. They were a slightly different tube. Were the tubes you compared Saratov made?

The Foton and other 60s-70s vintage tubes are getting hard to find and pricey. If you check on the 'Bay right now there is a group of 20 NOS Fotons for $500.00!

I'm not saying the Fotons weren't superior, but the Saratov made tubes are the tubes most people have been speaking quite highly of. And the current production is Saratov made as well.

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 12, 2017 at 09:33:25
mcgjohn@yahoo.com
Industry Professional

Posts: 501
Location: Midwest
Joined: February 5, 2008
 would agree with Triode kingdom; dont be afraid to use those Russian tube sellers on the 'bay. I have bought from them over a dozen times, with excellent results each time.

Have also bought a lot of Russian tubes from ebay seller Jet Parts, with always good results.

The last few times, I even got updates from the Russian Postal service....

J

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 12, 2017 at 10:59:03
twystd
Audiophile

Posts: 2723
Location: Austin,Texas
Joined: December 9, 2000
 It was several years ago when we did this test, and unfortunately I don't remember the factory. The reason I recommended pre Gorby tubes is that I saw a thread on the DIY forum between two Russians discussing the folly of paying the big bucks for later production 6n30p-drs.

According to them, the post Gorby era tubes were inferior. They said that during the glasnost era that tight military control was shifted to the civilian sector, and that profitability trumped quality. They also claimed that tubes during that time were considered old technology, and they closed and sold for scrap the factories that made special alloys and chemical coatings used only in the manufacturing of vacuum tubes. They also said that there were certain materials that were used during the Soviet era that wouldn't be used in the west because of the hazards to worker safety and the environment. The Soviets weren't sensitive to these matters, but these issues were more of a factor during the Gorbachev era.

I don't know for a fact that what they were saying was true, but they sure sounded like they knew what they were talking about. They certainly would have been in the position to know about such things.

I have bought many hundreds of Russian tubes, and seem to prefer the earlier production tubes. In the last several years, I've made a conscious effort to only buy tubes from the 60s and 70s, just in case those claims are accurate.

twystd

 

If we never posted about anything that was in part the subject of an earlier post......, posted on May 12, 2017 at 16:10:40
Mechans
Audiophile

Posts: 1804
Location: East Coast
Joined: May 23, 2004
 There might be some very waiting long times for entirely original posts i.e. questions or thoughts to show up.- The subject of another thread perhaps excuse me.

 

RE: Cryoset has them..., posted on May 12, 2017 at 16:21:59
artemus
Audiophile

Posts: 15273
Joined: March 12, 2001
 Thanks for the info.
=========================
You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 12, 2017 at 16:22:55
artemus
Audiophile

Posts: 15273
Joined: March 12, 2001
 Thanks. That's good to know.
=========================
You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?

 

RE: Patience? More like empathy!, posted on May 12, 2017 at 16:26:03
artemus
Audiophile

Posts: 15273
Joined: March 12, 2001
 LOL. Too funny. The aging process is a trip....and hopefully without a fall
=========================
You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?

 

Huh? (nt), posted on May 12, 2017 at 16:52:42
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12383
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 13, 2017 at 06:35:03
SETdude
Audiophile

Posts: 3944
Joined: January 20, 2000
 +1 on Cryoset. Honest seller and the tubes are tested

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 14, 2017 at 10:03:44
artemus
Audiophile

Posts: 15273
Joined: March 12, 2001
 Thanks. I ordered a quad on Fri evening. Funny how buying tubes made me look at tube preamps also. I haven't bought any toys lately. System sounds pretty good now. But why leave it alone when................well, you understand! (-:
=========================
You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 14, 2017 at 13:28:33
SETdude
Audiophile

Posts: 3944
Joined: January 20, 2000
 I understand completely. :-) There is a 'new' Dynaco preamp PAS3-NG. Worth a look.

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 27, 2017 at 10:27:57
ivan_terrible
Industry Professional

Posts: 207
Location: Ivangorod
Joined: April 26, 2015
 Lots of hearsay going on here....
The 6P3S is only a rough lower voltage equivalent of a 6L6, more like an updated 6V6.

6P3S-E is not really the same valve, idem the latest 5881 stuff from saratov.
All a bit comparing apples to oranges.


"According to them, the post Gorby era tubes were inferior. They said that during the glasnost era that tight military control was shifted to the civilian sector, ..They also claimed that tubes during that time were considered old technology, and they closed and sold for scrap...."


"Many (most?) of the 1970s and earlier production tubes were not made at Saratov. They were a slightly different tube. Were the tubes you compared Saratov made?

The Foton and other 60s-70s vintage tubes are getting hard to find and pricey. ......

I'm not saying the Fotons weren't superior, but the Saratov made tubes are the tubes most people have been speaking quite highly of.
And the current production is Saratov made as well."

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 28, 2017 at 23:48:58
twystd
Audiophile

Posts: 2723
Location: Austin,Texas
Joined: December 9, 2000
 Heard them both, I believe mine (if memory serves many years ago) were Saratovs (old school diamond logo, not unhappy robot) current production tubes suck in comparison. Since a lot of time has passed. I could be wrong about the logo, but I'll stand by the superiority of 70"s production tubes vs current. Current production might sound great, however IMO and others, in comparison there was none.

twystd

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 29, 2017 at 00:20:23
ivan_terrible
Industry Professional

Posts: 207
Location: Ivangorod
Joined: April 26, 2015
 I am regularly in RF.

If you read Russian, you will know there are literally 1000s of those NOS valves people are desperate to sell off for peanuts to cover for the calmitous fall in value of the rouble/hryvna.
Usually they are making a mark up of easily 200-1000% on their buying prices.

I can literally walk down the road and buy one off the shelf in most RF provincial cities... for about 150 rouble (about 2-2Euro50).

You must also be aware Saratov was NOT the only factory making this very common valve.
There were many factories in different places of the USSR, including Ukraine, where it appears there are still large numbers packed in their crates/boxes of 100 off.

I heard many of the production were quite gassy, and of course this is a one of a number of the *L6 clones made in the USSR, the others based on it being of course the USSR 807 - and sweep tubes 6P7S - 6BG6.

If you have any doubts about modern Saratov reflector made *L6 derivatives then just fit the octal version with top cap.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6p7s.html

Klaus has as usual done some homework on it.

http://klausmobile.narod.ru/td/data/_g807.GIF

It's a no brainer and stands much higher Va!

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 29, 2017 at 01:32:27
twystd
Audiophile

Posts: 2723
Location: Austin,Texas
Joined: December 9, 2000
 Thanks for your input, I value the audiophiles from the east to fill in the blanks to us in the west. The whole Soviet tube lore is murky to us, due to a lack of inside info. No doubt that was intended by the Soviet leadership during the paranoid (east and west) cold war.

Thanks for the tip, but I'm a tried and true member of the triode mafia, and have little use for pentodes unless run in triode mode. That limits my knowledge and use of Soviet era pentodes and tetrodes to triode curves that I can find on the internet, and only the linear ones are of interest.

I built a parafeed SET, using the 6S36P with the topcap, in triode mode. A wonderful sounding tube at about 20 watts dissipation (rated ~ 15). The surprising thing is we got a true 8 watts in class A1. My friend thought it might be due to the 48h plate choke I used with the high 20 watt dissipation.

Please post more on your knowledge of the Soviet era tubes, as I feel SOME are the equal, if not SUPERIOR, to western tubes. Others have no western equivalent, and all are economical in comparison to western tubes. The markup of the ebay sellers are irrelevant to me at a few dollars a tube. I don't use any western tubes in my projects any more, once I've learned of the Soviet era tubes.

twystd

 

RE: OK I gotta ask. Why no more 6p3se / 6n3ce for sale other than on Ebay?, posted on May 29, 2017 at 01:53:19
ivan_terrible
Industry Professional

Posts: 207
Location: Ivangorod
Joined: April 26, 2015
 I'm not an "audiophile". Its the last label I want, because most "hi end" stuff sounds dreadful.

I work on the recording end, which is the content creation end, which you eventually may end up listening to.

The soviets got given technology on lend lease during the war.
I'm not Russian but I do mix and match stuff which before the internet was impossible or difficult to do.
In my opinion nothing at all to do with "cold war", as plenty of stuff before the USSR breakup was already being resold by people like Zaerix etc.

There are some very good bits of Russian technology, particularly the stuff they continued developing when things had died in the west,- stuff like Submins from Siberia, Svetlana SPB, military transmitter valves, but not much frame grid I believe because they didn't develop this, nor the USA compactrons which were brilliant.

As a result, the best high gain frame grid stuff, even sweep tubes were made in the USA like Sylvania, Westinghouse, RCA.

Lots of that stuff is unbeatable, so sticking to one rigid idea is bound to be swept away by realising TV valves usually ended up being better, more modern, cheaper and much more reliable than anything being squeezed into a small bottle with poor quality control, uninterested staff, and indifferent aims.

 

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