Tube DIY Asylum

Do It Yourself (DIY) paradise for tube and SET project builders.

Return to Tube DIY Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

who uses different wire colors in amps?

71.232.235.98
Posted on March 4, 2017 at 14:16:50
rockdoc
Audiophile

Posts: 200
Location: Harwich MA
Joined: February 17, 2010
 I found this:

Grounds, grounded elements, and returns Black
Heaters or filaments, off ground Brown
Power supply, B plus Red
Screen grids Orange
Cathodes Yellow
Control grids Green
Plates Blue
Power supply, minus Violet
AC power lines Gray


 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: who uses different wire colors in amps?, posted on March 4, 2017 at 14:25:20
mqracing
Manufacturer

Posts: 4323
Joined: June 29, 2000
 good for organization!

but even I (as a transformer maker) might not each of the colors you've listed.

do you use all of the same type (grade) of wire?




Builder of MagneQuest & Peerless transformers since 1989

 

RE: who uses different wire colors in amps?, posted on March 4, 2017 at 14:33:42
rockdoc
Audiophile

Posts: 200
Location: Harwich MA
Joined: February 17, 2010
 "do you use all of the same type (grade) of wire? "

good question. I've read some are doubling up TCSS in certain places.

 

RE: who uses different wire colors in amps?, posted on March 4, 2017 at 14:44:11
rockdoc
Audiophile

Posts: 200
Location: Harwich MA
Joined: February 17, 2010
 Thanks for your answer Mike!

I'm gearing up to do my first non kit build based on my new old FS-030s, Vaic VV-30B tubes, and Laurel mono chassis and parts, that I never finished back in the '90s. Went 45 BHead instead, with my then Avantgarde Duos. Now I'm looking at wire choices, as well as different circuits. Might go with the Laurel circuit, or try direct coupled, or JE Labs, or 91a...... so many options.

 

RE: who uses different wire colors in amps?, posted on March 4, 2017 at 15:56:02
91derlust
Audiophile

Posts: 1101
Joined: December 25, 2014
 Generally:

+ve side of circuit: red
-ve side of circuit: white (or black)
Transformer to filaments/heaters: green

The exceptions are the AC runs to the power transformers, which are per regulations.

My next build will use different wire diameters depending on the stage (current) and purpose (hint: the ratio of signal to B+, local PS returns, signal returns).

AC filaments/heaters: tightly twisted solid core, large enough to carry the current plus some headroom (but not heavily over-sized).

Where the desired wire colour is not available I will use white wire, clearly labelled/coloured to leave no doubt about its purpose.

91.

"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein

 

RE: who uses different wire colors in amps?, posted on March 4, 2017 at 16:10:07
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 I think there really is only "one" option - for highest possible performance and quality...build the simplest.

Two stage, direct coupled, with a mu of 100 driver tube, and a LSES power supply. All the rest, I find, is second fiddle to that.

TCSS is OK, seven strands of three different gauge 5N copper wire, in teflon, about 19 AWG. Today, I enjoy using Mil Spec M22759/11 a whole lot, its multi stranded copper, silver plated, teflon jacketed, in various gauges...12, 14, 16 and 18 AWG. Many pretty colors, a JOY to work with...eBay .... low-ball the Sellers.


Jeff Medwin

 

RE: who uses different wire colors in amps?, posted on March 4, 2017 at 17:01:30
rockdoc
Audiophile

Posts: 200
Location: Harwich MA
Joined: February 17, 2010
 Thanks Jeff! Got a favorite schematic?

 

RE: who uses different wire colors in amps?, posted on March 4, 2017 at 17:14:47
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 Yeah, schematic and a written description for you - also. Email me at drlowmu@gmail.com, and we will arrange to talk over this weekend, Sunday, afternoon on - you call me or vice versa. That is by far, the best way to get things communicated !!

In all your prior amp owning and listening, I think you were using a two stage 45 amp and a three stage 2A3 amp. You haven't yet heard what a 2A3, particularly, a JJ 2A3-40 can do, until you go two stage, and direct coupled. Perfect for your speakers, and tastes.

Jeff

 

RE: who uses different wire colors in amps?, posted on March 5, 2017 at 04:38:56
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12364
Joined: May 14, 2002
 Just pretend you're wiring airplanes; use white everywhere.
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

RE: who uses different wire colors in amps?, posted on March 5, 2017 at 06:32:06
Stuben
Audiophile

Posts: 669
Location: Guber Ohio
Joined: December 30, 2005
 I tend to use green for Earth, Black for line and Red for everything down stream of the Power secondaries. I do go RED/BLK on the OPT secondaries. There are exceptions, when I run out of particular color...

One practice that has yielded a more quiet build is using shielded cable for filaments and signal. I leave one end of the shield available to earth. Has been useful.

Stuben

 

Douglas..., posted on March 5, 2017 at 06:37:46
Uncle Mike
 "Just pretend you're wiring airplanes; use white everywhere"
This is common practice even in industrial applications. The difference being wires are tagged on either end to identify them.
I work in an oil refinery where there are set standards and practices as far as wire gauge and color depending on application and voltage. Just sayin'.

 

Inventory issue, posted on March 5, 2017 at 08:07:14
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2651
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012
 I would love to do that, but I buy wire 100' rolls and to do the initial stocking it would be almost $2000.

 

Great source of multicolor wire., posted on March 5, 2017 at 11:47:06
gusser
Audiophile

Posts: 3649
Location: So. California
Joined: September 6, 2006
 You can find multi-conductor control cable scraps at surplus houses. Just take 6 feet and open it up. Some cables have over 40 conductors with a unique color code.

Unfortunately silver plated munticonductor cable is very rare.

 

I suspect there's more to his recommendation to use white than simply emulating aircraft practice (nt), posted on March 5, 2017 at 21:31:22
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12375
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001

 

RE: I suspect there's more to his recommendation to use white than simply emulating aircraft practice (nt), posted on March 6, 2017 at 08:26:31
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12364
Joined: May 14, 2002
 OH no...it was entirely sarcastic. I hate that practice. Though I would love to use the religious fanatic-prescribed colour to hang its proponents with after they failed a listening test on the subject.
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

OH yes..., posted on March 6, 2017 at 08:52:17
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12375
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 ...what you describe is exactly the "more" I was suspecting. Recall the "discussion" here of a few years ago where the color black was disparaged. Recall too that one of the cited proofs of black's badness was Kimber's purchase of some kind of $100K analyzer that was able to detect electrical differences between various insulation colors. Curiously, at the time, Kimber offered all sorts of cables with black insulated wire. More curiously, I don't see black in Kimber's current offerings.

Too lazy to look up that thread although might be worthwhile to someone else just for entertainment value.

 

RE: OH yes..., posted on March 6, 2017 at 13:25:33
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 I follow color codes but use older coding such as green for filament, yellow for rectifier filament, red for B+, etc.

 

That theory is no longer alive!, posted on March 6, 2017 at 14:07:23
gusser
Audiophile

Posts: 3649
Location: So. California
Joined: September 6, 2006
 Not to mention thousands of radio, television, mastering facilities, and recording studios are wired with millions of miles of black wire world wide.

Go figure!

 

RE: That theory is no longer alive!, posted on March 6, 2017 at 16:16:18
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 Please don't raise what is, at best, a hypothesis to the level of theory. We speak of Einstein's Theory of General Relativity and its Gravity Law, which have passed, with flying colors, every experimental test devised, to date.

I categorize the insulation color idea as psychotic musings.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."


Eli D.

 

RE: OH yes..., posted on March 6, 2017 at 16:19:24
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10047
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 "Kimber's purchase of some kind of $100K analyzer that was able to detect electrical differences between various insulation colors."

I have no idea what Kimber did. However, I once had the opportunity to test long runs of twisted pair with a Hewlett-Packard cable analyzer that was one of only three in the world. The one I used was recalled from Japan for my company to use. The bottom line is that there is a measurable difference in the characteristics of different insulation colors, or at least the wire they encompass. Note that we were measuring runs of a thousand feet and longer, and the differences were very small. A few feet of wire in an amplifier would show no measurable or audible difference.




 

RE: OH yes..., posted on March 6, 2017 at 17:32:21
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12375
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 It is plausible that insulation color and some variation of wire characteristic(s) might be correlated but that the color itself is not the actual cause of the variation.

One possibility is that in a wire mfg facility, a particular insulation extruder is dedicated to one or two similar colors to avoid the production inefficiencies assoc with changing colors. Since the dies are manufactured within some manufacturing tolerance, under these conditions, it's probable that any two dies for two extruders (colors) will produce insulation thickness slightly different from each other. This in turn might be expected to result in slight differences in measurable characteristics of say twisted pairs built up of wires from different extruders (colors). It's probably safe to assume that machine to machine production variation is monitored and controlled to the extent that measurable cable differences due to this variation is small and would become most apparent with long runs where differences would be magnified. If this type of dimensional production variation is a cause of variation of measurable cable charactetistics, it seems reasonable to expect correlation of cable characteristic to insulation specific color to be confined to specific production runs of a specific manufacturer. IOW, all else equal, black cable from mfg "A" might be closer to spec than red and white cable from mfg "B" might be closer to spec than their black.

For audio apps, color vs goodness is probably in the mind of the beholder.

 

RE: That theory is no longer alive!, posted on March 6, 2017 at 18:00:19
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12364
Joined: May 14, 2002
 Theories such as this are alive as long as some band of religious fanatics say they are. No proof beyond their claim is required. Examine the news, 3-5 million illegal immigrants voted....more of same, with the same sort believing it.
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

OK, but at audio frequencies? (nt), posted on March 6, 2017 at 18:57:02
gusser
Audiophile

Posts: 3649
Location: So. California
Joined: September 6, 2006
 z

 

Probably not...., posted on March 6, 2017 at 20:12:06
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12375
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 ...thus my commentary at the end that color goodness is probably in the mind of the audiophile beholder.

BTW & FWIW, JOC I got out my handy dandy mechanical Mitutoyo dial caliper and measured the OA thickness of various colors of insulated wire in my stash. There are readily measurable and presumably electrically significant (under proper conditions) differences in OA wire thickness between colors. Same mfg and style. Relatively consistent along the length meas but different amongst colors.

 

RE: Hot is Red, Neutral is White, Green Grounds and Filaments, and hang the extra cost of conventions (nt), posted on March 6, 2017 at 20:24:10
kitch29

 

Almost all the shade of black is derived from coke ergo heated coal which changes it's chemical structure..., posted on March 7, 2017 at 01:02:25
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 7551
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
 there is ferrous material, along with arsenic and mercury AND cadmium and etc. in this modified element, hence this 'theory'.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

RE: who uses different wire colors in amps?, posted on March 7, 2017 at 04:49:23
awsjr
Audiophile

Posts: 235
Location: Austin, Tejas
Joined: November 30, 2006
 in my amp builds, I use mostly the same wire, 20awg solid silver with clear teflon jacket but with small different color pieces of heat shrink at the ends and middle to identify where they are hooked up

 

RE: Almost all the shade of black is derived from coke ergo heated coal which changes it's chemical structure..., posted on March 7, 2017 at 05:45:47
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 Never mind the fact that much "black" coloring is obtained with "nigrosine" dye. Dyestuff chemistry is, very much, "a can of worms".

Carbon black (soot) used in tires would be a POOR choice in wire insulation. Think CF and CC resistors.


Eli D.

 

Hehehe...thank you!......nt, posted on March 7, 2017 at 06:22:29
Uncle Mike
 With my apologies to the OP for helping to get off track.

 

what's a good source for silve rwire?, posted on March 7, 2017 at 06:23:40
rockdoc
Audiophile

Posts: 200
Location: Harwich MA
Joined: February 17, 2010
 what's a good source for good silver wire?

 

RE: what's a good source for silve rwire?, posted on March 7, 2017 at 21:04:00
kitch29
 Handmade Electronics

 

RE: Almost all the shade of black is derived from coke ergo heated coal which changes it's chemical structure..., posted on March 8, 2017 at 00:49:44
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 7551
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
 Right, Eli... coke comprises 65 to 70 percent of nigrosine dye.

Chemistry is one of the most fascinating fields {to me} that I never delved into.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

RE: what's a good source for silve rwire?, posted on March 8, 2017 at 04:20:54
awsjr
Audiophile

Posts: 235
Location: Austin, Tejas
Joined: November 30, 2006
 I have purchased silver wire and the teflon jacket from Handmade... also have purchased wire, especially heavier gauge (14awg & 12awg)from Rio Grande...
https://www.riogrande.com/Product/999-Fine-Silver-Round-Wire-10-Ga-Dead-Soft/105310

 

RE: Almost all the shade of black is derived from coke ergo heated coal which changes it's chemical structure..., posted on March 8, 2017 at 05:23:10
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 The dye is what is known as an azo (N=N) compound. In the past, the analine and nitrobenzene starting materials would have been obtained from the byproducts of steel making coke manufacture. I expect that petroleum is currently used, as the starting point.


Eli D.

 

RE: who uses different wire colors in amps?, posted on March 22, 2017 at 05:42:06
gordguide
Audiophile

Posts: 302
Joined: January 20, 2002
 You can use regular Permanent Marker (Sharpie) in far more colours than you can probably afford to stock in different colour wire spools. It's relatively easy to run a straight(-ish) line along a wire before you install it or cut it from your spool or coil. $10 worth of markers and all white dielectric and you're good to go.

You can also use the same technique even if you do use a wide selection of colours ... differentiate your red wire with a black stripe on one, a green stripe on another, and so on.

 

Page processed in 0.047 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]