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Vintage Tubes

24.127.166.64
Posted on February 28, 2017 at 07:42:43
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 I have/had huge stocks of NOS tubes. 10-20 years ago the sales were brisk. Now-a-days I find much slower sales. Is DIY building much less now than many years ago?

 

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RE: Vintage Tubes, posted on February 28, 2017 at 09:59:44
banpuku
Audiophile

Posts: 1008
Joined: January 19, 2006
 I prefer the newly built tubes from an availability and cost perspective. They are easy to find, are usually reliable and I can order them as matched pairs much easier than NOS. Also, I am not a tube expert, so understanding which NOS are real vs. mis-labeled vs. fake is too much for my liking. Just my 2 cents.

 

RE: Vintage Tubes, posted on February 28, 2017 at 10:20:45
krankkall
Audiophile

Posts: 296
Location: New Mexico
Joined: April 5, 2014
 The costs of the more popular NOS tubes have been rising for years now.
To many, current production tubes are an easier (and less expensive) option.
However, if you can use the less popular NOS tubes (6AQ5, 5V6GT, 12V6GT, 12AQ5, 12AB5, 8BQ5, 10BQ5, PCL86, PCL82, 6CM6, 6AB4, 6AV6, 6AX5, 5T4, etc.), many are still somewhat plentiful and quite inexpensive.

Steve

 

RE: Vintage Tubes, posted on February 28, 2017 at 10:21:25
tube wrangler
Manufacturer

Posts: 2484
Location: USA
Joined: January 29, 2007
 Since most vintage tubes had low vacuum, thin glass envelopes,
asymmetrical internal wiring, parts made out of plain iron sheet, asymmetrical filament structures, filament structures not always physically matching the grid and plate's shapes, inferior metallurgy
with asymmetrical leads going to tube pins (a lot of NOS power tubes connected the plate AT ONE CORNER with a cheap, thin iron lead!!!!!!!!!!!), or worse yet (845, 805 211, etc.)-- Stuck a graphite plate upon a set of steel rods!-- talk about unwanted loose connections and diode-effects! TRASH! Why should anyone be using these things when he
can buy MUCH better today?

WHO designed these NOS tubes? Was it Woolworth's and K-Mart? Walmart? McDonald's Hamburgers?

There are a few exceptions-- Eimacs, etc., of course. I even use an old car-radio tube because it's symmetrical, has very heavy glass envelope, a high vacuum, and is a Loktal, which means it doesn't use soldered-on (anti-transparent and anti-coherent) tin-plated cheap iron pins.

That's a very rare exception, and it's not perfect. The direct-pins
on it are nevertheless iron. Give me a modern tube (from EML, etc.)
that has its wonderful characteristics, and I'll drop it like a Hot
Potato. Anybody want to manufacture a GOOD hi-mu driver? I said HI-MU.

Amp-factor of 90 to 100. Are you listening. EML??????

New Old Stock? Only when I HAVE TO!

-Dennis-

 

RE: Vintage Tubes, posted on February 28, 2017 at 11:04:26
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12358
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 I wouldn't expect DIYers to be a huge factor in the overall market. 10-20 years ago, NOS hoarders were hoarding. Nowadays the hoarders have what they want and are largely out of the market. What is available seems to be tainted by suspicions of.....ahhhh.....misrepresentation. Combine all that with the availability of decent new mfg Russian, East European and Chinese parts esp for the types most popular in HiFi and MI apps and NOS looses much of its former sparkle. A big unknown is what the market will do when the heirs of the hoarders need to liquidate the estate.

 

RE: Vintage Tubes, posted on February 28, 2017 at 11:08:57
maxhifi
Audiophile

Posts: 584
Location: Alberta, Canada
Joined: August 4, 2004
 New old stock tubes have become prohibitively expensive, in most of the desirable audio types. The non audio tubes sell less because the guys who fix up old prewar radios have been dying.

But are less people building things in general? Well, 10-20 years ago you could buy hobby electronics magazines and stereo magazines at any grocery store. Now? Not so much...
I think less people want a hobby which involves building things these day, it's it to be cultural.

 

Stage amp tubes are always in demand, posted on February 28, 2017 at 11:17:55
andy evans
Audiophile

Posts: 4378
Joined: October 20, 2000
 There will be a continued demand for NOS tubes used in stage amps - EL34, 6L6, KT88, 12A*7 and such, plus the rectifiers. Amps are still being made that use these, and musicians value the old tubes.

Apart from that a lot of tubes just have very little use. Talking about all the indirectly heated tubes that aren't common in stage amps, nor are they 6SN7s and the like as commonly used in hifi amps.

I've only used DHTs for many years, and I regret selling around 50 10Y tubes at $25 each, plus a lot of 01A and 46. I've had to re-buy the 01As because it's a tube I use. But even so, plenty of 26, 01A and 4P1L still about at sane prices. Prices have rocketed on 45, 10Y and a few others. so apart from the obvious collectibles, I'd say that for the most used DHTs it is neither a buyers nor a sellers market - pretty stable on the whole.

 

RE: Vintage Tubes, posted on February 28, 2017 at 12:00:40
bean
 I'm really surprised at the decline of the DIY boards/kits offerings in the last 5-10 years, so you may be on to something. I've got a couple of un-built project boards from vendors who used to offer a wide range of items, who now have one or two non-DIY selections left.

That said, I'm suspicious of most NOS now unless from a known vendor. Recently on cheapo auction TV tubes I'm experiencing a nearly 20% fail rate on testing. Shorts, gas, failed vac or just plain weak/well used. For a couple bucks no big deal, but concerning.

 

RE: Vintage Tubes, posted on February 28, 2017 at 12:23:06
BofService
Audiophile

Posts: 741
Location: Atlanta
Joined: February 28, 2003
 I'm on a couple vintage email lists and I have seen a significant drop in traffic over the past 6-8 years. Used to be multiple messages every day. Now sometimes a week goes by with no traffic. It is also becoming very rare to see tube amplifiers at yard sales, or even on Craigslist. I assume they are all sitting on shelves somewhere, but your guess is a good as mine.

 

RE: I blame the Chinese tube stuff, posted on February 28, 2017 at 20:11:24
DAK
Audiophile

Posts: 2712
Location: PACIFIC
Joined: August 8, 2010
 They have flooded the market with cheap tube audio and it has taken away from the vintage tube market. The newbies, not knowing any better, are left holding the bag 2 to 3 years down the line and dump their equipment thus even further depressing the market.

 

RE: I blame the Chinese tube stuff, posted on March 1, 2017 at 04:06:28
vinnie2
Audiophile

Posts: 4481
Location: North Carolina
Joined: September 28, 2013
 That sounds like newbies buying the cheapest stuff instead of doing their homework and finding out where the real value is. I think we all go through that at some point.

 

RE: Vintage Tubes, posted on March 1, 2017 at 04:29:59
zacster
Audiophile

Posts: 2178
Location: NYC
Joined: November 22, 2003
 I think audio as a whole is dying, literally. Those of us that were into this during our college years and beyond are just getting old. Once portable CD and computer audio came around the interest in home audio tanked, so nobody under the age of 50 is really interested. Just go to an audio show and check out the average age of the crowd.

For myself, I was never able to afford true high-end gear, but always had a decent system. But at some point I discovered DIY and built my own, and could afford the better tubes. That was about 10-15 years ago, but ya-know-what? I haven't done much since, still using what I built. I think there was a peak about 10 years ago, with Bottlehead, Dynaco Doctor, DIY Hifi supplies, Welborne, and lots of others selling kits. But I think it hit saturation.

Oh, and one thing fueled the DIY and NOS craze, and you're on it right now if you are reading this. This forum! And the others like it too. All of this info that you could only find in an esoteric magazine in the past, all on your computer.

I read on this forum, and the others, and it all sounds like old hat now. Same arguments going back and forth.

 

RE: Vintage Tubes, posted on March 1, 2017 at 06:53:56
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Jim
There are a couple reasons for that.The new productions have caught up or dramatically narrowed the sonic gap.The other thing is,new production tubes you can buy in matched pairs and matched quads where the vintage tubes are a lot harder to do so.
There are still vintage tubes I prefer over new production.One is the 6SN7 TS round plate and the others are the 5751 windmill Raytheons,the Telefunken 12AX7 smoothies,the RCA and Raytheon 12AX7 and 6CG7 black plates,
the RCA 6L6gc black plates,the EL37s,and the TS 6550 black plates.
If they were to reissue these tubes,I think it would pretty much kill the high prices those tubes fetch.
Here is the problem.The exotic new production tubes like the KR and the Chinese exotics,are priced higher than their vintage cousins in many cases.Price a pair of upscale KR300B or 845 tubes and you will see what I mean.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: if 7B4 is the best driver tube for SE DC 2A3 ..., posted on March 1, 2017 at 06:59:47
deathtube 667
 Then why is your friend , JM/drlowmu, using something different?

A low Rp driver tube of some kind?

It would seem like using the 7B4 would be the way to go since the "tube wrangler" himself uses it.

dt 667

 

In what spirit do you ask the question ??.., posted on March 1, 2017 at 09:47:16
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 Hey, I feel your questioning, on a public forum, is rather rude to Mr. Fraker, and way way off-base. It seems to "me" like it was posed, not as a way to learn something about audio design, ( because believe me, Mr. Fraker has many good reasons to choose what ever tubes he likes - and YOU would learn positive things from understanding his reasoning ).

No, unless I am mis-reading you totally, it SEEMS to me, you just try to put someone on the defensive. How rude, how mean spirited can you be??

Realize, I am a different person than Mr. Fraker, and I have free will, to do and build what ever I please.

If this was done in the spirit I envision, I would pose the following -- let me put YOU on the defensive :

You don't even know what the tube would be, do you ?? NO!

Do you know who suggested it to me, to try out ??? NO!

Does the amp exist, and in working order in my home....NO !!

Am I presently "actively" constructing it?? NO !

Am I planning to build something ?? YES !! Of course.

Have I ever used a 7B4 in any of my amps?? NO!

Did Mr. Fraker's recent AA postings, of a 2 mA , mu of 100 driver, sink into your mind ?? PROBABLY NO !!

Can ( and do ) YOU ( and I ) know how to build a better performing SET amp than Mr. Fraker? NO !!

Can any one else in SET land?? ..... I DOUBT that, very much.

Have I grossly mis-read your intent ?? ' Don't know !! Perhaps. YOU can certainly explain, and tell us. If I am interpreting you wrong, I apologize in advance of me knowing.

Well, there you have it sir.

Jeff Medwin

 

RE: In what spirit do you ask the question ??.., posted on March 1, 2017 at 10:28:45
deathtube 667
 JM,

You mentioned switching from the 1/2 of 12AX7 to a high mu/low Rp driver for DC 2A3.

Since DF knows you and what you are doing with tube amps, I asked his opinion since he is the MAN of SE DC 2A3 amplifiers around here.

Fair enough?

I probably should have contacted you offline for that info.

My error.

dt 667

 

And who are you?, posted on March 1, 2017 at 10:34:03
gusser
Audiophile

Posts: 3649
Location: So. California
Joined: September 6, 2006
 So the engineers and physicists that designed tubes during their mainstay in electronics were incompetent?

Where do you get off making claims like that? Where is your traceable background in electrical engineering or physics? I don't want to hear more of your babbly book either. Either post a degree and school or shut up!

Between you and Jeff, this forum has become a trash heap.

 

RE: In what spirit do you ask the question ??.., posted on March 1, 2017 at 11:42:22
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 No problem. I over-reacted, because I get tired of some people's posting, and likely vice-versa about me !!

None of these tube devices are perfect. We have to do and use whatever we can, the best compromise, and design with them !!!

I see you use 45s. I could not get that tube to go well in 2015 -2016. In the middle midrange, I always hear a broad but shallow suck out, despite it doing other lovely things that would catch people's attention. Very noticeable on well-recorded solo piano.

Dennis Fraker, heard the same Type 45 traits in his place in Montana. Listen to a JJ 2A3-40 in your amp, don't really have to change the 5K output trannie, just the Rk, and not even that on a first-try basis. It ATE my ST 45s.

I am selling all my 45s, sixty eight of them, on eBay. I start with 47 of the TV-7 passable tubes, tonight, 30 auctions, spaced apart every seven minutes. I have a dozen JJ 2A3-40s now at home, enough for me, two times over. Just pop in some JJs and compare them, see if you can borrow two, using 45 biasing even !!

Jeff

 

RE: In what spirit do you ask the question ??.., posted on March 1, 2017 at 12:29:45
deafbykhorns
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: Florida
Joined: October 17, 2003
 Just curious, how many JJ2A3's do you own?
I have 6 right now and expect these to last at least 10 years since I'm biasing low.

 

RE: In what spirit do you ask the question ??.., posted on March 1, 2017 at 12:51:50
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 Twelve . 10,000 LPs.

I'll typically be at 47 mA and about 260 P-K, or 12.22 Watts dissipation.

I figure I am covered 'till age 200.


Jeff Medwin

 

Some Chinese stuff isn't half bad, posted on March 1, 2017 at 14:31:13
maxhifi
Audiophile

Posts: 584
Location: Alberta, Canada
Joined: August 4, 2004
 I bought a Little Bear phono stage off eBay some time back. Threw out the plexiglass enclosure and mounted it into a Hammond Instrument enclosure, put some better quality RCAs and added tube shields. I actually quite like it, one hell of a bargain for the price.

 

RE: In what spirit do you ask the question ??.., posted on March 1, 2017 at 15:57:55
sideliner
Audiophile

Posts: 208
Location: NYC
Joined: August 22, 2013
Contributor
  Since: December 15, 2023
 I'll typically be at 47 mA and about 260 P-K, or 12.22 Watts dissipation

At this bias point how many hours do you think you can get out of this tube? I know it's a 40W tube and at this dissipation it is loafing, but I still wonder what that number might be especially as compared to a regular 15W 2A3 that is run under the same conditions.

 

RE: I blame the Chinese tube stuff, posted on March 1, 2017 at 17:00:45
awkwardbydesign
Audiophile

Posts: 41
Location: United Kingdom
Joined: November 22, 2005
 We all have to start somewhere. I built (copied) valve amps first, then bought some Chinese amps (845 SET, various Consonance stuff) and am now building DHT preamps. I still have some of the Chinese gear and it works well, sounds good and is reliable.

 

RE: I blame the Chinese tube stuff, posted on March 1, 2017 at 17:06:18
vinnie2
Audiophile

Posts: 4481
Location: North Carolina
Joined: September 28, 2013
 They must be improving then, because most of what I have read about the earlier stuff was that you bought it knowing you were going to have to upgrade a lot of the passive parts to have anything decent.

 

RE: In what spirit do you ask the question ??.., posted on March 1, 2017 at 17:21:59
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17292
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002


I would think a 300b operating at those points would last a lifetime.

And that's what a JJ 2a3-40 is, a 300b with folded filaments.

It does have the mu of a 2a3 but the same limiting values as their 300b.

450v, 40 watt, 70ma fixed bias and 100ma cathode biased

It has the same inter electrode capacitances and that's interesting because if the mu is different then the spacing between elements should be different but still the inter electrode capacitances are list as being the same.

I really think the two, the JJ 2a3-40 and the JJ 300b, are the same tube with the filament center tapped for the JJ 2a3-40 and the center tap is connected to one filament pin and the two ends are both connected to the other filament pin.


Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: if 7B4 is the best driver tube for SE DC 2A3 ..., posted on March 1, 2017 at 20:25:27
tube wrangler
Manufacturer

Posts: 2484
Location: USA
Joined: January 29, 2007
 First, the 12BZ7 was recommended-- by me! The pros and cons and the need
to drive into less efficient (and less costly) wiring, etc., for Jeff's new lower-cost build meant that a bit of extra driver power was needed for this less expensive build-- not for what I do in my more expensive build where everything must be as perfect as possible..

The 12BZ7 is controversial in that it's not perfectly linear on paper. It's good for Jeff's application because it has a high amp-factor and will in addition provide some extra current needed to drive less efficient wiring in the build. The linearity problem is NOT really a problem. The 12BZ7 can be run where it will easily be linear enough for its intended application.

With that said, Jeff is the final decider for his amps-- not me!

There you go-- more than one way to skin a different Cat.

-Dennis-

 

RE: In what spirit do you ask the question ??.., posted on March 1, 2017 at 20:48:45
tube wrangler
Manufacturer

Posts: 2484
Location: USA
Joined: January 29, 2007
 I think you're probably right on nearly all counts.

Interestingly, on JJ's website, there are several hints that the
2A3-40 handily outperforms their 300B. Pretty strong hints at that!

That's what has happened with me. For a long time, I just popped
the 2A3-40 into amps that had been voiced for other 2A3s-- the
likes of old RCA's, The EML mesh and solid-plate tubes, and etc.
Even Sovteks and Electro-Harmonix (a premium Sovtek-- has
gold-flashed grids, and does sound better. Looks like the
same plate).

Kevin Hayes (VAC) had once mentioned that you had to voice
for the JJ tubes... they're different.

That they are! If I voice an amp for them, other tubes won't
be at their best. If I voice for those at their best, the
JJ sounds good, but fairly ordinary.

It's interesting that when you get the JJ 2A3-40 settled into
what it really wants, it can and will give you everything you
could ever ask for about recorded music. It will sound just
like that expensive Berkeley Audio Design DAC that costs
$16,000.00 That's saying a lot because that thing is GREAT!

-Dennis-

 

RE: if 7B4 is the best driver tube for SE DC 2A3 ..., posted on March 1, 2017 at 20:50:20
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17292
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002



"The 12BZ7 is controversial in that it's not perfectly linear on paper."

That might be the understatement of the year.

"...will in addition provide some extra current needed to drive less efficient wiring..."

Wire takes current to drive it?

I think you need to explain why.

"The linearity problem is NOT really a problem. The 12BZ7 can be run where it will easily be linear enough for its intended application."

Please show us where you would operate the 12bz7 to make it "linear enough" for a low distortion audio application.

Tre'


Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: if 7B4 is the best driver tube for SE DC 2A3 ..., posted on March 1, 2017 at 21:51:36
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12358
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 The 12BZ7 isn't really any less "linear" than a 12AX7. The curves you posted are almost exactly those of a 12AX7 but with "Ip" multiplied by 2. There's a reason for that. For all practical purposes, each section of a 12BZ7 is almost exactly a 12AX7 with both sections paralleled. 12BZ7 gm is double that of 12AX7, rp=1/2, If=2x, u=100, etc. If the 12BZ7 has a weakness compared to the 12AX7 it's excessive microphonics. Every one I've tried to use was a microphone. YMMV

 

RE: if 7B4 is the best driver tube for SE DC 2A3 ..., posted on March 1, 2017 at 22:38:40
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 Hi Dennis,

I say, no need for you to answer any questions to anyone, on what I am going to build.

The proof of the pudding, will be in the listening, or, the A-Bing, which I would readily invite - when my new monoblocks are completed.

You, Dennis, said it well : " The linearity problem is NOT really a problem. The 12BZ7 can be run where it will easily be linear enough for its intended application."

As you say, there are lots of ways to skin the cat.

Oh well,

Have a good day !!

Jeff Medwin

 

RE: if 7B4 is the best driver tube for SE DC 2A3 ..., posted on March 1, 2017 at 22:54:33
tube wrangler
Manufacturer

Posts: 2484
Location: USA
Joined: January 29, 2007
 Good observations. For preamp use, Low-Noise tubes
are chosen. Anything special about "low noise" tubes?

The plates are shorter! The less area, the lower the microphonics.
(and incidentally, the lesser the musical dynamics-- if all else is equal).

I'll be leaving operating points to the user of any tube-- it's
his amp, not mine....

I love tubes that have a large surface area and low operating currents, and low thermal stress levels.

Lots of dynamics VS distortion levels. Of course, all tubes are
microphones in one way or the other. As always-- there are degrees of trade-off.

Thanks for pointing out your observations to all of us!

-Dennis-

 

RE: if 7B4 is the best driver tube for SE DC 2A3 ..., posted on March 1, 2017 at 22:59:37
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 I disagree with you, I do not think the graphs are similar.

But the graphs, and " maximum swing analysis " are NOT the sole reason to use, or discard, any tube. There are other factors one must weigh. The less-linear graphs I see, won't stop me in my intended use of the tube, one time in my audio chain.

In what gear were you employing the tube, preamp or amp, may I ask you ??

How many stages, one, or more in series??

Aside from microphonics, how did it compare to a 12AX7 sonically-speaking, in your circuit, and from your direct experience ??

Thanks in advance.

Jeff Medwin


Thanks,

Jeff Medwin

 

RE: thanks DF ..., posted on March 2, 2017 at 07:13:13
deathtube 667
 I would not have guessed 12BZ7, but it seems logical based on your transfer efficiency concepts to use that tube in a budget build.

Each triode section of 12BZ7 is similar to a parallel 12AX7 from what I have read about it.

Thanks for the information.

dt 667

 

RE: In what spirit do you ask the question ??.., posted on March 2, 2017 at 07:16:44
deafbykhorns
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: Florida
Joined: October 17, 2003
 I run mine at 45-46ma so I should be good!

 

there are limits to friendship..., posted on March 2, 2017 at 07:31:04
Jim Dowdy
Manufacturer

Posts: 1518
Location: Atlanta, GA
Joined: July 22, 2000
 I consider both Tube Wrangler and Dr Low Mu friends - but I don't use the 7B4/12AX7/12BZ7 in my 2A3 amps.

 

RE: if 7B4 is the best driver tube for SE DC 2A3 ..., posted on March 2, 2017 at 08:29:45
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12358
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 There are minor differences in the curves, mostly at extremes. In part no doubt an artifact of manually fitting a smooth curves to discrete data points as was done in those days.

My experience with 12BZ7 was in an attempt at improving drive capabilities of two traditional PP driver topologies that utilized 12AX7: Mullard circuit and gain stage direct coupled to split load inverter. In both situations the sound was pretty much same as 12AX7 but didn't do much serious listening before moving on because of microphonics. Maybe I had a bunch of bad examples of the type. Maybe they'll work out fine in your apps. Fortunately they're still inexpensive so no great loss if they don't work out. As always with tubes like this, YMMV.

 

Exactly, posted on March 2, 2017 at 08:41:33
Mossback
Audiophile

Posts: 1871
Location: Washington, the State
Joined: November 17, 2001
 The new tube market has caught up in regards to quality as Mike points out.
I will buy new over NOS or used although some new tubes cost more I think they are a better value. Used or NOS you take your chances, new in most cases you have a return option.
There are exceptions I would still buy used from Jim for some types.

 

RE: thanks DF ..., posted on March 2, 2017 at 09:23:45
tube wrangler
Manufacturer

Posts: 2484
Location: USA
Joined: January 29, 2007
 You got it!

Incidentally, there are reports of early failures
regarding the use of 12BZ7 tubes.

Plug-and-try, it seems, is not doing the job.
People have simply plugged these into circuits
designed for 12AX7, etc., and see if they
hear something-- different. Trouble is, what are
the new operating points now? DID THEY CHECK THAT
against 12BZ7 Design-Center values? AND, try to
operate UNDER THOSE?

Just plunking a different tube into another tube's
circuit isn't useful tube life data!

The tube is no different in build quality than similar
types made by the same tube factories. Why would one
age faster than another?
It's operating points and nothing else.

-Dennis-

 

RE: Exactly, posted on March 2, 2017 at 13:58:13
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 MB
Tubes like the 12AX7 Teles you can't go wrong with because those tubes are seldom bad.I have some that literally reason 20% and they work just fine and the distortion numbers are good.
Vintage Mullard 12AX7s I have the worst luck with.I have several of the Long plate mullards and several CV-4004s and at least 35% of them are microphonic when used in a preamp. Now 12AX7 Dutch Amperex DD getters I love to death.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: I blame the Chinese tube stuff, posted on March 2, 2017 at 16:15:23
awkwardbydesign
Audiophile

Posts: 41
Location: United Kingdom
Joined: November 22, 2005
 Reading about them and buying them are different. I have seen good and bad from various countries.

 

RE: I blame the Chinese tube stuff, posted on March 2, 2017 at 17:32:16
vinnie2
Audiophile

Posts: 4481
Location: North Carolina
Joined: September 28, 2013
 The people who wrote the articles I read had bought them. : )

 

RE: I blame the Chinese tube stuff, posted on March 3, 2017 at 08:38:32
awkwardbydesign
Audiophile

Posts: 41
Location: United Kingdom
Joined: November 22, 2005
 And were they American by any chance?

 

RE: I blame the Chinese tube stuff, posted on March 3, 2017 at 12:10:34
vinnie2
Audiophile

Posts: 4481
Location: North Carolina
Joined: September 28, 2013
 What has that got to do with anything? These people weren't manufacturers or dealers, they were just ordinary people who bought this stuff and were reporting back their observations. I seriously doubt there was any nationalism involved. Most people on this forum are about good sound at a good price more than anything else. If they think something is they say so, and if they don't they say that too.

 

RE: And who are you?, posted on March 4, 2017 at 11:32:50
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10037
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 "Between you and Jeff, this forum has become a trash heap."

Understatement of the year.

 

It's Just the Cost, posted on March 4, 2017 at 11:40:58
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10037
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 Many people DIY because it's less expensive. The cost of NOS has skyrocketed over the last few years. I think it's also reasonable to say reliability has gone down, simply due to the better examples being culled out. Many of the tubes sold now were discarded by previous owners as being microphonic, unbalanced (twins), gassy, etc.


 

RE: And who are you?, posted on March 5, 2017 at 04:41:26
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12360
Joined: May 14, 2002
 The biggest disappointment is shown in the positive reaction to their nonsense.
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

RE: And who are you?, posted on March 5, 2017 at 08:24:19
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10037
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 Yes, and I get so sick of it, I sometimes just have to get away from the forum for weeks or months. No idea why the admins allow it. Most forums remove participants who constantly mislead other members. LoMu - and now his buddy - fall squarely into that category. Really a shame, so much self-serving junk posted here by those two. Maybe the admins are just desperate for the activity, content no longer matters. That's how it appears, anyway.


 

RE: And who are you?, posted on March 5, 2017 at 09:49:03
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12360
Joined: May 14, 2002
 maybe the admins tolerate stuff because most of the membership as a whole does. That is IMO the most disappointing bit of it. No more Gary Pimm, no more VoltSecond, no more Dave Cigna, or Henry Pasternack or...
cheers,
Douglas



Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

RE: And who are you?, posted on March 5, 2017 at 10:39:23
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10037
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 You're right, we've lost a lot of talented contributors. It's strictly the fault of the admins for failing to maintain a cohesive and knowledgeable culture. So much junk science regarding bad wire and aluminum chassis, the forum is now nearly at the level of an unmoderated newsgroup. In fact, I've decided not to waste my time posting experimental results here in the future. There are only a few other members left who even care about legitimate concepts.

 

RE: And who are you?, posted on March 16, 2017 at 16:04:22
Stuben
Audiophile

Posts: 669
Location: Guber Ohio
Joined: December 30, 2005
 Guys,

Things go south when folks speak IN ABSOLUTES.

We all do things that might not align with bottom line design but most don't swear it's the only way...especially in DIY.

Being sold faith leaves a bad taste for most.

My regret is that we don't take the time and resources to get our forum together and some how (physically) compare our creations..that would be a gas...I'm in Cincinnati. I know I'm close enough to some our regulars to get something together....Bored am I violating some rule?

 

RE: Vintage Tubes, posted on March 16, 2017 at 21:29:16
soundchaserkt66
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: EAST COAST
Joined: February 7, 2012
 Just some of my observations

1. although Russian EL84's are not bad, The vintage telefunkens smoke them

2. Russian el34's do not come close to mullard fat base or Amperex bugleboys

3. Although not a bad thing, Most Amperex 12AX7 and el84 tubes were actually made in Japan

4. From what I've read, the new Russian Kt66 tubes are not even a Kinkless tetrode.

5. older Russian flat top wafer style 6L6WGB 5881 sound better then an RCA black plate 6L6

6. Far as 300b, I couldn't tell you. I can't afford Westerns......)


Just what I think

 

RE: And who are you?, posted on March 18, 2017 at 07:06:44
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12360
Joined: May 14, 2002
 We've put together sessions from time to time. I am in Ann Arbor, and have traveled to get to a good meet. I would love to get into this again, and with some planning can fit it around the latest distraction, aka fostering dogs for our local Rescue...:)
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

RE: And who are you?, posted on March 19, 2017 at 07:50:26
The Bored
Bored Member

Posts: 2996
Joined: July 28, 2000
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 >>maybe the admins tolerate stuff because most of the membership as a whole does.

Yup. We've asked repeatedly that you figure out how to manage your community. There are many ways to do that. You could, for example, pick an inmate you trust--with a depth of knowledge and willingness to serve voluntarily and impartially--and we'd be pleased to consider adding them to the mod squad.

Fax mentis incendium gloria cultum, et cetera, et cetera...
Memo bis punitor delicatum! It's all there, black and white,
clear as crystal! Blah, blah, and so on and so forth ...

 

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