Does anybody owns a DAT machine?

For one thing, I can't afford the Sony PCM 3402 although my sons would love to have them in their studio for recording.

Besides, I already have the Tascam DA-30 MKII and it may not sound as good as my analog Revoxes machines in the overall scheme of things but it sure a lot of fun tinkering with it.

Also, I found that the DAT tape doesn't degrade the sound no matter how many times you re-recorded it, unlike some cassette tape which shows some signs of sound degradation after 5 re-recordings events.

Fortunately, these are very inexpensive these days, posted on January 29, 2021 at 11:44:35

Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55318
Joined: April 5, 2000

I paid $500 for the one in the video, and it is in excellent condition. I have seen them advertised for even less, with local pickup. I am not saying $500 is not a real money, but in the context of high quality audio it is a moderate sum.

Having said that... I recorded on it, and the sound quality is good, but not spectacular. A well maintained pro-sumer analog tape machine would beat it any day... but of course it would also cost much more.

Just having fun. :)

Tell me all about it... , posted on January 29, 2021 at 12:52:18

kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 8446
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007

It cost me quite a bit to restore my Revox PR99 MKII which includes head relapping, recapping, and rebias to its original specs. I was going to restore the Revox A77 as well but after seeing the cost on the PR99 I've decided to wait a while. Besides it still running well even though the photocell has quit working.

RE: Tell me all about it... , posted on January 29, 2021 at 13:31:17

Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55318
Joined: April 5, 2000

Yes, if you pay a tech for recapping it will cost quite a bit. I usually do that kind of job myself, it is not complicated on a modular machine like the Revox. It is smartly put together, you take one board out and work on it. Do it one board at a time.

I try to do as little as reasonable, I am against the wholesale recapping. People have created tons of issues by doing it. Especially when they do it in one shot. One lifted pad, one broken trace and your machine can turn into a brick.

I do have a machine just like that one. Unfortunately, it is in NAB, which I don't use...

Why?..., posted on January 29, 2021 at 15:12:11

kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 8446
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007

What's wrong with listening to the NAB equalized music are you biased or something? Kidding aside I did some comparison with NAB and IEC equalization recording with my OTARI, I found the difference to be very subtle, to say the least. The difference was just like listening to Steinway and Godtrian Concert Grand pianos the Steinway was more visceral sounding but the Godtrian was more agile on its feet. But you know what if either one of them was played by Keith Jarett you won't be able to tell the difference. But of course, that's just me.

I wish I had your electronics skillsets man I'd be buying a lot of used high-end electronic stuff even if they're not working properly.

Almost all my recorded tapes are IEC, posted on January 29, 2021 at 15:40:54

Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55318
Joined: April 5, 2000

The ones I bought prerecorded are ALL IEC, and I made that a standard when I make recordings.

The only NAB tapes I have are the commercial prerecorded old tapes on 7" reels, and for those I am using a Teac machine, which is, naturally, an NAB device.

Otherwise, all my high quality tapes are in IEC.

You can standardize on either EQ - they are close to each other, but since IEC is slightly better, today it is the most common high end format.

I have a Panasonic SV-3800., posted on January 29, 2021 at 15:45:20
Coner Audiophile Posts: 3703 Location: S.W. Washington state, USA Joined: November 17, 2001	That Tascam looks really nice!. I'm not using it, so will end up on AA trader I think.

RE: Why?..., posted on January 29, 2021 at 16:02:47
Dave Pogue Audiophile Posts: 11689 Location: DC Area Joined: October 9, 2001	With my Otari decks I find that the SQ differences between IEC and NAB tend to be quite marked. There are more IEC tapes in my 15/2 collection but there are quite a few NAB tapes too. I've got my main deck wired for direct tape head output, into Kara Chaffee's deHavilland 222 tubed tape head preamp and this seems to increase rather than reduce the IEC/NAB SQ differences I hear.

I get it..., posted on January 29, 2021 at 17:04:01
kootenay Audiophile Posts: 8446 Location: Calgary, Alberta Joined: October 16, 2007	I don't use any tape head preamp as I connect the Revox PR99 MKII output cable directly into the Krell Evolution 202 preamp's tape input. The sound is quite good much better than the Audio Research Reference 1 preamp that I used to own.

Thanks., posted on January 29, 2021 at 17:58:16
kootenay Audiophile Posts: 8446 Location: Calgary, Alberta Joined: October 16, 2007	I don't have any commercially recorded tapes anymore. Presently I'm using the Revoxes RTR for home recordings only.

RE: Thanks., posted on January 29, 2021 at 18:12:42
Victor Khomenko Manufacturer Posts: 55318 Joined: April 5, 2000	When you record and play using the same EQ the difference will be minor, IEC has a bit less hiss and it has better HF extension at high level. PR99 is a fine machine, if calibrated properly it will deliver wonderful performance. What tape are you using?

I'm using..., posted on January 29, 2021 at 21:52:00
kootenay Audiophile Posts: 8446 Location: Calgary, Alberta Joined: October 16, 2007	Pro-grade low noise tapes from Maxell, TDK, and BASF that I bought years ago. However, recently I've been buying some pancake tapes from the local pro-audio shop that sounded quite good which is better than I would expect from a generic brand.

That was a close call! For a second I thought my Sony Pro Walkman was pass�. Nt, posted on January 30, 2021 at 05:26:49
geoffkait	Nt

RE: I'm using..., posted on January 30, 2021 at 05:29:23
Victor Khomenko Manufacturer Posts: 55318 Joined: April 5, 2000	That pro studio tape is most likely something like SM468 or SM900, which require VERY different calibration - usually they would not get enough bias. It is great tape, I use a lot of it, but the machine must be calibrated for it.

You must be a professional walkman... , posted on January 30, 2021 at 05:34:12

Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55318
Joined: April 5, 2000

I wish I could spend my life doing that. :)

I have quite a few pieces of good pro Sony gear, including the TC-D5M cassette recorder.

That baby is a beast... designed like no other. Also in my collection - two Sony TC-510-2, featured in the Mindhunter series. They are so incredibly irresistible...

QUick and Dirty Video

RE: Does anybody owns a DAT machine?, posted on January 30, 2021 at 06:49:31

John Elison
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Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

I own a TASCAM DA-20 Mk2, but I haven't played it in years. I switched to an Alesis Masterlink hard-disc recorder in 2003 and now I'm using a TASCAM DA-3000 DSD recorder. DAT is basically obsolete nowadays.

Why don't you buy one of the new TASCAM high-resolution digital recorders? They're very reasonably priced. Even their top-of-the-line DA-3000 DSD recorder is only $900 brand new. There are other models beginning in price at $100 and up. Furthermore, solid-state storage media is much less expensive than DAT. I now copy all my LPs to DSD128 with my TASCAM DA-3000.

Good luck,
John Elison

Thanks for the info..., posted on January 30, 2021 at 08:40:58
kootenay Audiophile Posts: 8446 Location: Calgary, Alberta Joined: October 16, 2007	I'll look into it.

Yup..., posted on January 30, 2021 at 08:59:32
kootenay Audiophile Posts: 8446 Location: Calgary, Alberta Joined: October 16, 2007	My Revox PR99 MKII machine is calibrated at RMGI Tape: 900 Flux: 250 nWb/m for 7 1/2" and 15" IPS speed record and play. All I know the tech told me that this calibration will work high with output tapes from +3 dB, +6 dB, and +9 dB. In hindsight, perhaps I should have asked him to calibrated it to 350 nWb/m do you think it would make a big difference in sound?

RE: Yup..., posted on January 30, 2021 at 09:16:06
Victor Khomenko Manufacturer Posts: 55318 Joined: April 5, 2000	Yes, you could have gone higher, but you can just set the level above the usual, when you are recording. Use the music you are familiar with, and keep raising the level, until you start hearing the distortion, then back down a bit. But that's for your RGM tapes, the Maxells will not go that high.

I found that out a long time ago..., posted on January 30, 2021 at 09:49:04

kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 8446
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007

When some of my recordings have slightly distorted and or saturated sounds for no apparent reason. I thought the tape was damaged or something until I lowered the recording input signal to a more acceptable level and voila everything snapped into place.

However, some of the generic pancake tapes that I bought though I don't know who manufactured them probably from China seems to work well on higher recording level devoid of distortion and saturation in sound. Oh well, live and learn I suppose.

I found some of those..., posted on January 30, 2021 at 09:56:13
kootenay Audiophile Posts: 8446 Location: Calgary, Alberta Joined: October 16, 2007	In Kijiji but I'm afraid to ask as it seems to me that it will require a lot of work. And I'm not electronically inclined so I digress the temptation maybe someday I'll find one that's working and right for the money.

RE: Fortunately, these are very inexpensive these days, posted on January 30, 2021 at 18:56:19

John Elison
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Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

If you want to spend that kind of money, I would recommend buying a brand new TASCAM DR-100 MkIII high-resolution digital recorder. It costs only $300 and will record PCM up through 24/192. It has both balanced and unbalanced I/O and built-in microphones. It records onto plug-in SD memory cards.

TASCAM DR-100 Mk III

I don't see the reels there. :( nt, posted on January 31, 2021 at 04:51:17
Victor Khomenko Manufacturer Posts: 55318 Joined: April 5, 2000	.

RE: I found that out a long time ago..., posted on January 31, 2021 at 05:45:20

geoffkait

I reckon distortion is the produced by vibration of the cassette body, as I've been alluding to these past couple of weeks. Dynamic range and signal to noise ratio in audio systems are certainly constrained by internal or external vibration, that's one thing we've learned for sure in the last 25 years of so, for any medium, tape, CD, vinyl, whatever. Even the wires and cables suffer the indignity of vibration.

Reels are for analog tape recorders only..., posted on January 31, 2021 at 08:02:31
John Elison Audiophile Posts: 23900 Location: Central Kentucky Joined: December 20, 2000 Contributor Since: January 29, 2004	We're talking about digital recorders. It would be totally stupid to have reels on a digital recorder these days. Digital recorders use hard drives and flash drives. DAT is obsolete! Best regards, John Elison

RE: Tell me all about it... , posted on January 31, 2021 at 08:27:36

JURB
Audiophile

Posts: 2056
Location: North Ohio
Joined: May 29, 2016

"I try to do as little as reasonable, I am against the wholesale recapping. People have created tons of issues by doing it. Especially when they do it in one shot. One lifted pad, one broken trace and your machine can turn into a brick. "

There are many reasons not to just changem all. For one, older caps - if good - are usually of better quality.

I design and have made a study of caps, how some are worked harder than others and how their values are chosen. It is not arbitrary but it is different than most people think.

Take a look at my video, posted on January 31, 2021 at 09:39:35
Victor Khomenko Manufacturer Posts: 55318 Joined: April 5, 2000	That machine will take up to 14" reels. Many companies made such reel to reel professional tape machines. Their beauty is in ease of tape editing - you do it the same way, as the analog tapes are edited. Studer also made a fancy digital tape recorder. Many famous albums were recorded on machines like that. Obsolete... yes... but so are tubes, fountain pens, fidelity and many other things. :)

Dad used to tell me..., posted on January 31, 2021 at 10:01:27
kootenay Audiophile Posts: 8446 Location: Calgary, Alberta Joined: October 16, 2007	Things only become obsolete if you don't have a use for them. He used to mow his 3/4 acre lawn using the push reel mower and this is in the middle of the '80s when the electric lawn mower was available.

RE: Take a look at my video, posted on January 31, 2021 at 10:48:51

John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
Since: January 29, 2004

> Their beauty is in ease of tape editing - you do it the same way, as the analog tapes are edited.

I think it's all in your outlook. In my opinion, that's the most difficult way to edit a digital recording. The easiest way is with TASCAM's Hi-Res Editor or some other type of editing software.

I own one of the finest Hi-Res digital recorders available, the TASCAM DA-3000 DSD recorder. It records onto solid-state flash drives that are reliable and cost only a small fraction of a reel of your tape. Furthermore, a single SD memory card will hold ten times the amount of music as one of your largest reels of tape.

If you like your tape recorder, that's fine. However, you won't find anyone else using one these days and you don't need to try to convince me to buy one. I've already got the best digital recorder for my purposes.

Thanks!
John Elison

Am I?, posted on January 31, 2021 at 11:27:13

Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55318
Joined: April 5, 2000

Am I trying to convince you of anything? :) Hardly.

You have to be a collector in order to appreciate a machine like that Sony. Clearly, it was used for editing, as witnessed by the splicing block. Hard to do? How do you think the recording engineers survived before the editing software? :) We need to learn to appreciate the labor of those before us. Millions of albums that we listen to today were created with a razor blade and splicing tape. It is, actually, not too hard, you can watch some videos.

As the forum's name indicates, it is for the dinosaurs, who still play tapes and listen through tubes. :) Solid State Memory? What's that? :)

This is like telling people on philatelist forum about email conveniences. :)

Tape Trail

Does anybody owns a DAT machine?

68.145.133.7