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Reel to reel, cassette and other analogue tape formats.

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need to talk long

161.213.113.149
Posted on June 22, 2004 at 07:49:29
rrikola@hotmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 646
Location: Southern California
Joined: June 30, 2003
 Now that we have this cool fourm we need to talk. The vinyl guys think they have the ultimate audiophile format but they are wrong. The ultimate audiophile format is R to R. Remember that "their" disks are usually at least 3 generations from the multitrack tape. Two generations on disk and one removed on tape. There is no way their playback systems can come close to the performance of a high quality R to R. So why is it that the vinyl guys (I an also one) are constantly tweeking their setups for maximun performance and going through an extensive setup process while you guys seem to play old trashed tapes from the 60's instead of recording state of the art sorce material and discussing recording tecniques and machine set up. For example very little has been said about proper adjustment of eq and bias for you tape selection. This is critical for a flat frequency response yet many here seem to be satisfied with fliping a high or low bias switch to aproximate a correct setting. Can you imaging the vinyl guys doing that? Oh no they would have the backs off their machines and would be discussing the use of a tone generator and procedures for correctly adjusting this critical adjustment. Noise reduction anyone? Did you know that DBX type one, as well as providing a 30 db increase in sig. to noise ratio also doubbles you recording headroom? Can you imaging giving up that type of performance increase when an outboard unit can be had for less then 100 bucks on ebay? No hard core audiophile interested in the best possible sound would consider not using a noise reduction system, Why that would be like not using a record clamp or worse not leveling your turntable. If we want to take our rightful place at the top of the audiophile dogpile we must take our machines seriously and discuss maximum performance issues and stop treating r to r like some kind of an oddity. This fourm should be used to promote interest in R to R machines by discussing maximum performance issues. Only by dealing with maximun performance issues can r to r gain the respect it deserves in the modern audio community because maximum performance is what being an audiophile is all about. If you want to collect old junk gear and tapes that is all well and to be encouraged but that will do nothing to expand the audiophile appeal of this very kick ass format. Lets get on the performance bandwagon and show those vinyl guys what we can do. Now go get um.

 

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Re: need to talk long, posted on June 22, 2004 at 12:43:00
Doc B.


 
I gotta say I like what you present here. We've gone to 30ips master tapes to evaluate our prototypes and man, once you go there it's tough to go back to vinyl or CD. Of course it would be nice if there was more software available...as lucky as I am to have access to some masters, even our selection is a bit limited compared to the CD catalog ;^)>.

But you are right in that a really hardcore audiophool should get a RTR machine and learn to tune it to maximize it's performance. Right now is the time to do it, as even the high end machines are at rock bottom price-wise. During my last trip to the studio world down in the Bay Area it was apparent that older 2 track mastering decks are very reasonable and multitrack machines can sometimes be had just for offering to haul them away.

As an example I was looking to get something along the lines of an Ampex 351 for our listening room, until I realized that even an ATR could be had for the price of a medium/high end CD player. When one came up at a bargain price I snatched it. We plan to customize it by coming right off the plug-ins and skipping the I/Os, using our own electronics downstream instead.

Here's a link to one man's quest for the ultimate tape deck.

 

cheep good decks, posted on June 22, 2004 at 13:34:44
rrikola@hotmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 646
Location: Southern California
Joined: June 30, 2003
 Yesterday I did a complete scan of all ebay r to r, the prices are so low it's unreal, there is no reason not to buy a top quality simi pro or pro model unless you budget is under $100. The ampex models are great, I also like to revox pr-99, very nice looking, killer transport and I bet great sound. find a pro model that was used in a home for non comercial use, it will last longer then the owner, I had a tascam MS-16 one inch 16 track with roll around cab. and dbx it was simply indistructable, never used outside a home, little use, mint. But we need to focus on 2 track mastering decks buy them up cheep and join the club, making state of the art recordings is sooo much fun, I've been watching reels spin for so long I see them in my sleep, got my first 7 inch r to r about 1968, it was a columbia "masterworks" cool for the time, later got a sony tc 377 and later a teac 3340 s now I have a mint tascam rs 1520 as you likely know from my other
posts, bought it new, cost like $2700 bucks w/o dbx in 1987 (?) dollars, it was the only thing I kept from my home studio because I knew when I got back into stereos again it would be killer cool, even got rid of my tascam dat deck, da 30 I believe, I have been a born again audiophile for the last 4 years it's great. I quite listening to music around 1980 because my audiophile tastes required me to record my own music for best quality and I got my fill in the studio but now Im finely back. Got to go back to work before I get busted. Bob

 

Re: need to talk long, posted on June 22, 2004 at 20:57:02
view@usit.net
Audiophile

Posts: 917
Joined: October 1, 2001
 One could probably trace the 'attitude' back to The Absolute Sound of the 1970s. High-end vinyl was the apotheosis and reeltoreel (and cassette as well) was marginalized at best. I suppose the reason was the general availability of high-quality vinyl records - vinyl was a mass medium - while pre-recorded reeltoreel tapes were on the wane, often duplicated at the inferior 3.75 ips speed, and not as widely available as vinyl. Also, The Absolute Sound was more interested in playback than recording.

It's always interesting to compare the RCA Living Stereo vinyl to the RCA Stereo-Orthophonic tapes of the mid-1950s. Hardly a comparison IMO - the tapes have greater range, transparency, and detail. But it's hard to pull the vinyl folks away from their TTs.

 

don't need to pull them away..., posted on June 23, 2004 at 06:51:32
rrikola@hotmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 646
Location: Southern California
Joined: June 30, 2003
 because I find that one of the most fun sources of recordable material is on LP. This is fun...A state of the art r to r setup recording the best audiophil vinyl on a state of the art TT system and listening to it for weeks because it sounds so good that you can't believe it's a recording of a record, sitting back and saying "dang I don't think I have a CD that sounds THIS good" I,m not saying I have state of the art but....the idea is the same. You got to record from somthing right?

 

Ah Tweeks...., posted on June 24, 2004 at 23:56:35
mwseik
Audiophile

Posts: 107
Location: Southern Colorado
Joined: November 2, 2003
 Where would one begin with saying how they tweek there system?
I have 2 items that I use to help the sound on any device that I am listening to.
The first is a Samson Graphic EQ E62i 1/3 Octave Dual 31 Band Constant Q,
The second is an AudioSource Model EQ14
Half of my old tapes have that annoying hiss that gets killed with the 2 above EQ's.
I would go nuts if I had to listen to anything with that annoying hiss. So, I did what I could do with my budget and it works great. I can tailor the sound to anything that I listen to be it the radio, vinyl, tape or CD.
The 78's are the hardest to get the crisp sound I want, but with a few slides I can get them sounding just right.
But, you can tweek anything if you have equipment that will knock the edges off an old or abused recording and have the patience, you need to have the patience to get things as close to right as possible.
Being who I am I tend to listen to the same thing a few times to make sure it sounds right.
There are a few gizmos that I am waiting to purchase and those are for the 78's, a neat little contraption with dials that will help shape the music. It also brings the dead sounds of a CD to life. But, that's down the road, they still want $500 for that contraption.
Anyway my EQ's are my noise reduction system and my sound shaper. EQ's have been given a bad rap lately, nothing wrong with them if you know how to use them.

John

 

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