Your message, in a highly vocabulated form, surely serves as a anathema backlash to elitism denouncers & digital 'town cryers', like
Ken Pohlman.

For any Tom, Dicken, Harry, CD has indeed done an admirable job in "democratization of recorded music". Nowadays, music lovers,
age from toddlers to seniors, can have music wherever & whenever -
affordably. Isn't it a real blessing of music? Absolutely! We still recall the 'sad' old days when music was only confined to a handful of "elite of society", & going to concert was s symbol of social status! But today, "it's audio of the people, by the people, for the people".

While CD sound is far from 'getting there', "elitism" is not even
close to perfection! So, why pointing fingers?

Hopefully, your article did not undermine the important role of
digital technology has played in improving our music enjoyment, let alone in audio-visual entertainments in public venues & in homes.

Audio elitism runs to an extreme both ways: analogue & digital.

Let's take a look at the analogue extreme end. The use of antique direct-heat valves with exotic input & driver transformers in single-ended class A amps as exampled by Sakuma-san & Lynn Olson, & the like analogue die-hards, emerged from this digital era, as a 'new' trend of hi-end audio & has induced quite a multitude of followers.

Has the resurrection of the 1930s antique audio today tolled the death
knell of hi-end digital audio? I don't think so.

The recent arrival of a pure class D all-digital amp has stirred up
a tempest of applause from some audio critics - Spectron 1KW class D
power amp! Designed by John Ulrick, a co-founders of Infinity speakers,
using the long-known pulse width modulation (PWM) technology!

This 1KW digital power house comes as a "little David", weighs ony 34 lbs, & is only 3.5" thick, is yet capable of pumping 500-watt RMS power into a 4-ohm load!

The sound? Mike Pappas, the critic of audoMusings of Positive Feedback Online, who reviewed a few months ago, this "little David", the giant killer, commented: "OK, so maybe both of John (Mikity) & myself were abducted by audiophile aliens, but I don't think so. I think we were both shanghaied by one of the finest audio amps that we have ever heard, and through it, transported to a new universe of listening pleasure."

"It redefines the state of art in power amp design. It does everything
right, so right that words cannot totally convey what this amp is capable of doing..."

It only retails for USD3,495.00 a stereo piece! That is a real killer.

So, digital is surely not a "numbers game". It is for serious business, soundwise.

Good listening

cheap-Jack
Aug 29, 2003.

 Re: I am never quite sure what your point is - Russ57 12:02:56 09/02/03 (6)
 Re: I am never quite sure what your point is - cheap-Jack 09:20:11 09/04/03 (2)
 "By the same token, most kids love fast food places, like MacDonalds." - clarkjohnsen 08:23:03 09/08/03 (1)

...

Show full thread outline!

 Re: I am never quite sure what your point is - Russ57 12:02:56 09/02/03 (6)
 Re: I am never quite sure what your point is - cheap-Jack 09:20:11 09/04/03 (2)
 "By the same token, most kids love fast food places, like MacDonalds." - clarkjohnsen 08:23:03 09/08/03 (1)
 Re: "By the same token, most kids love fast food places, like MacDonalds." - cheap-Jack 11:32:44 09/08/03 (0)
 Great post, Russ - markrohr 13:50:29 09/02/03 (1)
 Re: Great post, Russ - cheap-Jack 07:35:56 09/03/03 (0)
 Well said! nt - clarkjohnsen 13:29:33 09/02/03 (0)
 "Your message, in a highly vocabulated form..." Whew! - clarkjohnsen 07:17:00 08/30/03 (2)
 Re: "Your message, in a highly vocabulated form..." Whew! - cheap-Jack 10:25:42 09/02/03 (1)
 "...the role digital technology has played in improving... audio-visual entertainment." - clarkjohnsen 13:27:44 09/02/03 (0)

Well, anyway...

I'll take issue with a couple points then go home and try to figure it all out.

When was music "confined to a handful of 'elite of society', & going to concert was s symbol of social status!"? Eighteenth Century? Ye gods, for 100 years music has been a fact of life in most strata of society.

"Has the resurrection of the 1930s antique audio today tolled the death
knell of hi-end digital audio? I don't think so." Who ever said it did? I simply argued that the sheer unlistenability of early digital drove people to alternate solutions.

As for Mike Pappas' experience with the Spectron, he enthused over the thing when it first came out while I found it sonically intolerable (gave me a headache!) and got rid of mine soon as I could. Subsequently I heard that the fellow I sold it to did likewise. Some people genuinely find digital unlistenable.

So "the numbers game" remains an apt description of mass-media marketing ploys and academic intransigence.

clark

So, the "Numbers Game" should read "Numbers Plot" then. Like it or
not, marketeering is always the name of the business "game". This is how the world bulds up its economy since day one. It applies to any commodities, including elite audios, e.g. exotic cables, boutique caps
& attenuators, antique DH valves, etc etc. If you take seriously the
reviewers' pitches, or 'experts' endorsement, go for it. Otherwise, why bother?

While I never dispute most commodity CDs are "unlistenable" to many audiophiles, we should not downplay the important role digital technology has played in improving our music enjoyment as well as audio-visual entertainment, & in making music ever so popular to the common public as compared to the pre-CD eras. Did you mention 18th century?

Music is priceless & classless. It is for every Tom, Dicken, Harry.
It is there if one loves it. Commodity CDs may sound harsh & unmusical to many audiophiles' ears, but it may sound good to many others.

Let me tell you a true story: a 23-year veteran classical pianist (by hobby), graduated from the Royal Conservatory of Music with first class honour, never owns any audio system. His sole music passtime at home, & on busines trip, besides playing piano, is listening to his Disman hooked up to a pair of $10 Disman speakers. He happens to be
my elder son, John.

Good listening

cheap-Jack
Sept 2, 2003.

But to say the same of music seems strange to me. Even moreso to use it as defense of CD's. Bottom line, CD's cost the consumer more, not less than records. And only now is the medium becoming close to what records offered long ago. So I can't really agree with your statements.

I think if we look back at the advances that were aimed at bring music to the masses we have to consider the williamson amplifier design. Some, many even, would consider it the beginning of the end for quality reproduction. Much the same thing happened again in the 70's with solid state designs from the far east.

One could even point to newer formats like MP3's.

Now don't get me wrong, I have no problem with folks enjoying such cost saving ideas. But I do have a problem with someone saying they are just as good.

For example, one could look at a photograph of a piece of great artwork. They might be ale to afford to hang it on their wall. And doing so may bring them great enjoyment. But to call it the same as actually viewing the real work of a great master.....no way.

I feel we owe to our children to make sure they know what the "real" thing is. Be it artwork or music. Then and only then can they make informed descisions about what devices and medias they as consumers wish to support. If they grow up only hearing MP3's and the like how will they ever know what they are missing? So take your children, or grandchildren, to live plays and concerts. Drag them to view real artwork by the real masters. Let them not forget what we as humans once made by hand, sweat, hard work, and labor. No one seems to care that we couldn't build a pyramid with our bare hands anymore. Will they care when we can't make music without an electronic device? God I hope I never live to see that day!

Sincerely,
Russ

Some people are happy with cheapo crap. More power to 'em!

clark

regards,

Mark

I can't agree with you more.

Hopefully my readers don't mind my being a bit of 'social cannibalism' again.

Some 23 years ago, I enrolled both my sons, John & Charle in Yamaha piano lessons, very popular kiddie hobby training back those days. Why? I found them extremely 'reckless' - never sit still for a second.
(Actually it happens to all kids & toddlers, but how did we know
being young parents then. Right?)

So, I decided to put them on the piano bench, hoping they would learn to behave & get focussed on things.

Charles didn't like music, & guitted after passing 1st level (international classical piano music examiners require passing 10 levels for graduation, & hence qualified for advance study for performance diplomas or teaching diplomas).

John hung on to it as a hobby training, & graduated when he was 18.
He then entered university to pursue his career study of actuarial science (an extremely tedious discipline in mathematics!). Hopefull, he will be qualified as a young professional actuary after he passes his last of the ten papers laid down by the American Society of Actuaries this year!

Indeed, music training is good in helping kids' self development,
spiritually, mentally & physically (fingers & body coordination in case of piano music). I am very proud of him.

Good listening.

cheap-Jack
Sept 3, 2003.

I think you barked up the wrong tree. No, we are not in the same
wavelength. When you were "never quite sure" what my point was, you
still want to comment on it! WOW, incredible!

First off, I never mentioned in my post to CJ about prices of going
to concerts or picking up CDs. It was not my "point" either. Your splendid idea is out of your imagination or misconception.

One can pick up half a dozen CDs, even classical music, from stores, like the WallMart, for just $10. Where can you get a LP, even recycled ones, so cheap? Do you how costly an audiophile LP is? Check it out for yourself.

All my favourite classical music CDs come from only one label, & the same chain music stores, only cost me $4 a piece. Why, I have chosen this label for its superb sonic quality, not for its price. I did spent a lot of time to find the best CD labels for my very picky ears, & thanks goodness, I managed to find this dirt cheap label of superb sound. Isn't it a blessing?

Let me tell you a true story. One time, I went through an audition
of some hi-end amps in an audio boutique, using my dirt-cheap favourite 'test CD', "Beethoven Choral Sympohony", an all-digital production with a no-name European symphony orchestra & vocalists. Sonically, it blew away the demo disc in the shop, of the same title of Deutsch Gramophone label, a masterwork of Von Karajan, which was a demo 'must' for many audio shops, & highly regarded as 'referece' CD by many audiophiles. The shop owner wanted to get it for demo use. He dropped his jaw when he knew it only sold for 4 bucks!

"Cheapo" is NOT necesssarily "crap" if you know your business.

Second off, I never ever compared sonic difference between a LP & a
CD in the post. Again, your imagination or misconception. If you have followed my previous postings, you should know I enjoy bigtime my
hundreds of my stereo LPs, including historic collection back to 1950s. I will be the last one to denounce LPs vs CDs if I will ever
want to do so. Please make a search on my posts to find out my obsession of LPs.

I only stated in the post the fact in music history: with the introduction of CD, the common public can now enjoy music "wherever & whenever - affordably". Isn't it a blessing to all music lovers?
I will challenge whoever says no to it.

You mention the "real thing". Do you mean the music coming out from CDa is not as a "real thing" as playinng a record? Reproduced music is
not "real" anyway, whatever media it comes from.

By the same token, most kids love fast food places, like MacDonalds.
Do their parents need to worry they don't know how to use folk & knife when they grow up?

Likewise, going to live concerts & appreciating masters' original artworks & paintings is a real treat. But how many lucky people got the leisure time, (& money) to appreciate these "real things"? Not many, right? For many, many those less privilged commons, a Discman, a hamburger, & a replaca of the master's original painting at home, will be pretty gratifying to them. But, it doesn't rule out that they don't go for the "real things" whenever they can afford doing it.

It is your "problem" as you put your words in my mouth.

Good listening

cheap-Jack
Sept 4, 2003.

Hardly the point. The real worry is that they'll grow up obese and unhealthy. It's a *quality* thing, just as with sonics.

clark

Again, you are quoting out of its context.

Fast food may be "unhealthy" enough to make fat kids. Commodity CDs may sound "unlistenable" to many audiophiles, but may sound good to many others, too. The bottom-line is - it will not be "unhealthy" enough to harm one's hearing. Instead, it does provide music enjoyment to many many less diccerned commons, & leisure listening for some 'trained' ears.

Good listening

cheap-Jack
Sept. 08, 2003.