Ferrite Kills

Re: Ferrite Kills, posted on August 16, 2003 at 06:15:01
kongwee Audiophile Posts: 279 Joined: January 22, 2002	Ferrite should be use in powercord only. Interconnect and speaker cable is not recommanded.

The reason that so many people have different opinions..., posted on August 16, 2003 at 09:47:38

Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001

about ferrite is that their sound changes over time. When you first put them in your system, they normally improve the sound, getting rid of hash and noise. Over time, however, they become magnetized, making your system sound hard and glassy with reduced dynamics. You can temporarily restore them by demagnetizing them with a bulk tape eraser, but this only lasts a few days.

I don't like them anywhere. I think their effect is negative at any point in the system and don't recommend their use.

Best regards,
Charles Hansen

Re: Ferrite Kills, posted on August 16, 2003 at 18:00:36

Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000

Ferrite does filter RFI, but also slows down transients. I think half the problem is the clamps are way too large in size.

The only place I would put them is on the IC cables right at the outputs of CD players and DACs. But again, they cannot be too large, or the audio HF will be compromised too.

Ferrite is fine but you pay the price elsewhere..., posted on August 19, 2003 at 07:28:13

Bas Horneman
Audiophile

Posts: 4083
Joined: March 28, 2001

Gives a certain easyness to the sound..

but in the final analysis it adds/colours the sound too much...

All a question of voicing I suppose.

Cheers,
Bas

Re: The reason that so many people have different opinions..., posted on August 19, 2003 at 22:14:20

Sean
Audiophile

Posts: 4342
Joined: October 9, 1999

There are a million different formulations and core sizes for ferrite and almost as many ways to improperly impliment them into a design. Since most RF transformers are ferrite based, i have to work with them on a daily basis. Having said that, i've seen circuits with identical designs using various grades of ferrite in the transformers perform as if they were completely different circuits running on different voltages. Some blends of ferrite are FAR superior in terms of power handling, saturation characteristics, thermal stability, long term electrical characteristics, magnetization, etc...

With that in mind Charles and stating up front that i typically respect your products and points of view to a great extent, i have to disagree with the the very broad generalizations that you've made in this post. Like anything else, the key to success of ANY circuit is selecting the right parts to get the job done AND minimizing the stress on any given part to the point of increasing reliability due to the lack of stress. As such, using larger cores of high grade material and operating those cores at point that never approach their point of saturation ( thermal or electrical ) will typically provide one with very good and consistent results on a long term basis. Then again, i'm sure that you know this. Why you haven't applied the same line of reasoning and level of understanding to ferrites that you have in other areas of product development is puzzling to me. Sean
>

Well..., posted on August 20, 2003 at 07:46:10

Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001

Sean wrote:

"Why you haven't applied the same line of reasoning and level of understanding to ferrites that you have in other areas of product development is puzzling to me."

Actually, I think that I have done exactly that. You are making assumptions about what I've done and how I've done it. I'm not going to delve into this topic in great detail, but let me assure you that the magnetization to which I was referring was in no way caused by "saturation (thermal or electrical)".

The bottom line is that there are many, many things that cause audible changes in an audio system that simply aren't explained by the standard textbook theory that works so well in "standard" applications. Why don't you get a hold of a bulk tape eraser and try demagnetizing the ferrites that are presumably in your audio system? I think you'll be surprised by what you hear. Let me know what you hear.

Best regards,
Charles Hansen

Re: Ferrite Kills...On AC lnes?, posted on August 24, 2003 at 21:41:41

Djhymn
Audiophile

Posts: 682
Joined: October 15, 2002

I'm curious as to opinions regarding ferrite on power cords, and whether the same long term effect mentioned below is still true.

Re: Ferrite Kills, posted on August 25, 2003 at 03:26:33

J.Rankin
Audiophile

Posts: 89
Joined: December 27, 2001

I have found that if adding a ferrite causes a system to go "soft" in the highs then look for an RFI problem. Biggest culprit is the DAC to line amp connection. Best way to prove it out and to break it is to insert a pair of 2 megabit line transformers back to back. These are known as Braid Breakers and convert RJ59 coax cable using a BNC to twisted pair and back again. Incidentally, they can be used to extend the distance between a DAC and a line amp to some yards.
Another fix is to fit input transformers to the line amp except that these cost hundred of dollars rather than 20 for the above.
If you want to aggravate the problem to confirm this then take the top of the CD player and listen to the difference.
Of course, once the RFI problem is dealt with you will then have to change a cable or two to put the highs back again.
John

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