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Opinions on a different way to judge equipment and cables

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Posted on August 7, 2003 at 07:08:03
Russ57
Audiophile

Posts: 3754
Location: South Florida
Joined: November 16, 2001
I hope this is the appropriate place to post this message.

A fellow inmate turned me on to an article and I am curious how others feel about the validity of the methodology. I wish I had the URL but I will have to post it later.

Basically, what the article states, is that most of us try to play music we are familiar with and then try to listen and see if it sounds the way we remember that it should sound based on past listening experiences. This would apply, for example, to those of us who have a collection of "reference" CD's that we use when auditioning.

Instead, the author states that we should audition with a wide selection of music, recorded on different mediums and in different times and places of differing genres. This should be music we are not familiar with. Then, instead of comparing how one system sounds relative to another or some memory we have we should instead pay attention to which equipment reveals the greatest difference between recordings. His ascertain is that different recordings have to sound different due to the vast differences in recording equipment and sound engineers tastes and monitoring equipment. I am sure we can all agree that there is a vast difference between at least some recordings. The author's point is that the equipment that reveals the greatest differences between recordings must be the one best suited to faithfully reproducing the inherent differences that exist in these said recordings.

The more I thought about the article the more sense it made to me. I realized that I tended to use a mixture of the two techniques, comparison by remembrance versus comparison by contrast, depending on what I was trying to evaluate. I certainly find it easier to simply listen to an entire selection of CD’s and albums and simply note rather I hear any appreciable differences in tonal qualities, sound stage, and etc. between them rather than trying to do a bunch of quick A/B comparisons.

So what do you guys think and how many of you already use this methodology?

Sincerely,
Russ

 

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Re: Opinions on a different way to judge equipment and cables, posted on August 7, 2003 at 08:15:24
Ted Smith
Manufacturer

Posts: 10297
Location: Seattle
Joined: December 29, 2000
Howdy

I think there is some truth there: I haven't explicitly done it that way, but when I'm considering a purchase I do listen to lots of different things. I've been fooled before by having a component sound great on everything I listened to and then fail after I bought it on a different genre.

Looking at it another way, if I find that I'm doing quick A/Bs of a lot of material, I now take it as a warning that something is uninvolving.

Perhaps tangentially related is a post from TBone over on Digital: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/70054.html

-Ted

 

Re: The URL, posted on August 7, 2003 at 08:54:19
Russ57
Audiophile

Posts: 3754
Location: South Florida
Joined: November 16, 2001
Here ya go.


Russ

 

Thanks [nt], posted on August 7, 2003 at 09:20:23
Ted Smith
Manufacturer

Posts: 10297
Location: Seattle
Joined: December 29, 2000

 

I use the music I want to listen to...., posted on August 7, 2003 at 09:37:47
Commuteman
Audiophile

Posts: 953
Location: Bay Area California
Joined: April 30, 2003

I guess I agree with the original idea -- I've generally dropped the reference disc idea in favor of listening to whatever I feel like hearing at the time. This lets me test more of the musical/emotional effect of the system change rather than trying to listen for differences. It's a left brain/right brain thing...

Of course, if I go to a dealer or another person's house to listeen, THEN I take the music I know best (not the ones that sound best).....

Peter

 

It depends on the goal of the eval, posted on August 7, 2003 at 11:58:37
pburant
Audiophile

Posts: 2285
Location: New Hampshire
Joined: January 9, 2002
If you're evaluating for your own personal enjoyment, you should make the evaluation fun, use music that you like and are familiar with, but be careful to listen to a decent variety of recordings. I wholeheartedly agree that one of the best subjective tests of a system's transparency is the amount of sonic differences between different recordings.

One of the more powerful subjective tests I regularly use is to listen to the CD my band released quite some time ago. I was present throughout the recording process, so I know what the recording was *intended* to sound like. The better my system gets, the more I think to myself, "Oh, *that's* what we were thinking when we released this!" Another facet of this test is that our CD was a fairly low budget project. As such, the recording is hardly top notch. I've found that one of the things that makes a specific recording seem like a poor recording is that it is very difficult to accurately reproduce, and deficiencies of playback systems are easily exposed. There are many recordings that I always thought were pretty crappy recordings, only to discover as my system improved that those recordings aren't nearly as bad as I had thought - I just needed a system that had less weaknesses than the average system.

-Pete

 

"Our CD was a fairly low budget project. As such, the recording is hardly top notch.", posted on August 8, 2003 at 08:01:25
clarkjohnsen
Reviewer

Posts: 26843
Location: Massachusetts
Joined: May 5, 2000
Hmm... Some of the finest-sounding recordings I own in any format were "low budget" productions. Two classes of example: Live symphonic broadcasts and gospel music (at least before the last twenty years).

As I've always said, they just couldn't afford enough equipment to f*ck it up right.

clark

 

It is actually quite simple...., posted on August 12, 2003 at 06:52:46
jeromelang
Audiophile

Posts: 2303
Joined: February 2, 2001
...there is a very effective way, but it is highly controversial.

All optical-disc retrival transport system have a serious problem. How you select and access the tracks will have a great influence on sound quality. That like about 99.99% of all CD/SACD/DVD/LD players out there. The dCS Verdi/Purcel/Elgar and Ed Meitner combo may well be the only digital system that are free from this problem, albeit not though a better transport, but through SOTA jitter-reduction scheme. On a really neutral and transparent system (not just the ultra-expensive ones), you will be able to hear this problem on your digital player.

This is not a hoax. Bear with me a while. Many inmates on this board have already verified the existense of this problem.

Run this test.

Play an optical CD, any CD or SACD, but preferrably any of these titles listed here for the test:

Jennifer Warnes - Famous Blue Raincoat, track 3 and 7
CCR - Cosmo Factory, track 5,6,7,9
Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms, track 4
Dire Straits - On Every Street, track 9
Eagles - Hell Freezes Over, track 10

Start by playing the selected disc. Use a preceeding track first, and not the ones listed here.

After about 30 seconds, use the skip forward key to advanced to the track listed here. You may then play this track to its entirety or just for 2 minutes. Take note of the sound. Stop play. Press Stop key once only.

At this point, if you have a mute button on your pre-amp, use it to mute the output.

Now select the test track using the numerical key. If it is the track 4 of Dire Straits Brothers in Arms, press number 4 on your remote control. Do not use any of the skip keys.

Watch the counter on your CD player tick. At the 12th seconds point, hit the skip back key to repeat the track. Do not use the numerical keys.

Unmute the pre-amp. Compare the sound you hear against the sound you heard before. Basically you were cueing up the tracks to play with 2 very different method. There shouldn't be a difference, right? But the actual fact is.....

BTW, I fully agree with the view that equipment that reveals the greatest difference between recordings is what true belivers should aim for.


 

Re: Opinions on a different way to judge equipment and cables, posted on August 23, 2003 at 12:16:54
Someone elsewhere on AA posted the link and I had a short reply to it stating that I had never read such bunk. Well it's a while later now and I have no reason to change my opinion. Audiophiles are an obsessive lot and this is simply another angle to the same type of audiophilia nervosa. It's only a bloody record player, why not listen to the music instead of sonic artefacts.

 

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