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Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?

96.238.9.137
Posted on October 26, 2022 at 11:55:19
John Marks
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 Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?

By which I do not mean, Duntech Sovereign 2001, or any Dunlavy speaker.

A sealed-box loudspeaker for studio use that is in production today.

Any ideas?

TIA,

john

 

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What criteria are important to you?, posted on October 26, 2022 at 12:10:14
Dave_K
 There is no best. What's the application? You mention studio use, and you asked for full-range, so I'm guessing you're looking for a midfield monitor or maybe a main monitor, not a nearfield. Freestanding or in-wall? Active or passive? How big is the room?

 

Let's assume that it is to replace large Dunlavys, or, be basically, posted on October 26, 2022 at 12:53:06
John Marks
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 Let's assume that it is to replace large Dunlavys, or, be basically functionally equivalent to Duntech Soverign 2001s... but in view of the realities, they understand that they might have to go down a bit in size.

The prime consideration is that they do not want a ported design, because below the port-tuning frequency, ported designs' bass drops like a dropped ring of car keys.

Nor do they want to spend $100,000 a pair, or whatever Egglestonworks Ivys cost these days. They don't want to import Duntechs.

Time coherence is important.

They have invested a lot in analog Class A/B amplification, so: passive.

I think that's about it.

john

 

RE: Let's assume that it is to replace large Dunlavys, or, be basically, posted on October 26, 2022 at 13:30:49
pictureguy
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 From 100 Grand on DOWN to maybe 2 grand is a HUGE space........
Too much is never enough

 

RE: "best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker." Is one thing..., posted on October 26, 2022 at 13:54:09
Ivan303
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Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
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 "A sealed-box loudspeaker for studio use that is in production today." is quite another.

The difference is 'studio use'.

Best sealed box speaker (at any price) that I have heard to date would likely be one of Magico's better offerings, qualified by the fact that it had TONS of power at its disposal the last I heard one. No sure how 'studio use' would fit in though.

That said, if I had a pair of Duntech Sovereign 2001s I doubt I'd be shopping for speakers.







First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Couple of possible marks, posted on October 26, 2022 at 14:47:39
Edp
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Posts: 4503
Joined: September 23, 1999
 Klein and Hummel have some but think active only

HEDD Main towers but number of their lower models do the " either ported or sealed" which is often a compromise for either alignment. I am uncertain if the Main towers are reflex capable but were offered in ads as sealed

Bit odd one but Spendor Classic 200 , but I think it a sealed and some concern about studio robustness

 

Thanks for the tip; had I known that, I had forgotten it. nt, posted on October 26, 2022 at 15:38:27
John Marks
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 nt

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 26, 2022 at 17:15:24
G Squared
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 Large floor standing ATC would be on my list. Active 1st then passive if you want to use your own amps.
Gsquared

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 26, 2022 at 17:45:42
mondial
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Location: S.E. ASIA
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I would nominate these speakers , the Duntech C5800 Princess . Its the latest of the Princess models , currently in production and available . Though no dealers in the U.S.A it could be purchased directly from the Duntech factory in Australia . It still adhere to the John Dunlavy design parameters ( sealed enclosure , stepped back baffles , 1st order X over network , etc . ) . They have tested / compared it to the Duntech Sovereign 2001 and they said the new Princess are better . The retail price is around $50,000 USD + shipping to the U.S.A . I think this meets your clients criteria

 

RE: Let's assume that it is to replace large Dunlavys, or, be basically, posted on October 26, 2022 at 17:46:21
CG
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Posts: 432
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 I feel obliged to suggest Vandersteen 7's, maybe the XTRM version.

Goes down to 22 Hz. Certainly time coherent. Doesn't take up an entire gymnasium. Comes in cool colors. Doesn't tax the main amplifiers below 100 Hz. Did I mention the cool colors?

 

Of course, you are in a sense right, but..., posted on October 26, 2022 at 19:17:50
John Marks
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 The facility had five multichannel mixing rooms, so, we are talking about 25 loudspeakers total... ouch.

But thanks for the thought.

john

 

I found one "possible"... even though, posted on October 26, 2022 at 19:26:13
John Marks
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Posts: 7806
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 I found one "possible"... even though it is not stepped-baffle and I assume not low-order crossover.

PBN loudspeakers has designed a large-box sealed-box kit (minus cabinets) for Madisound. The cabinet appears to be about 48 or 50 inches tall, 16 inches wide, and 16 inches deep. Seven cubic feet?

The midranges and tweeter are in a sealed sub-enclosure.

Turns out that, to custom order, PBN will build them.

ciao,

john

On the linked-to page, please scroll down all the way.

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 26, 2022 at 22:20:29
hahax@verizon.net
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Posts: 4309
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 The larger ATC speakers are ported. The port is visually obvious. However they do use the port differently according to their notes. It's tuned to limit woofer movement in it's operating range, not to extend the bass response.

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 26, 2022 at 22:31:58
hahax@verizon.net
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 Can't resist this since it's not really on the subject but I'm always bothered that most audiophiles and audio critics use the term acoustic suspension and sealed-box interchangeably. The definitions are not the same. It is true that acoustic suspension is also sealed-box. The reverse is not necessarily true. In set theory, acoustic suspension is a proper subset of sealed box.

By the way another problem with ports is they are unloaded below their bass response and will flap wildly and dangerously with large sub base input.

I'm a big fan of sealed box and it obvious better defined bass. Another loading with slower bass roll off like sealed-box is the variovent/highly stuffed port. Recall how good the old Dyna A25 was in its heyday.

 

Tough thing to replace, posted on October 27, 2022 at 07:53:48
Dave_K
 Another pair of Duntech would seem like the obvious solution, unless they're just looking for something different this time.

I don't know of any other passive loudspeaker that ticks every box on your wish list. Vandersteen probably comes closest in terms of designer intent, but his floorstanders have active bass. At least they can keep their amps though.

I was thinking of Eggleston too, but they are not time coherent. If sealed is the hardest of his criteria and he's flexible about time coherence, then Magico gets my vote. The Magico S5 Mk II is $45k and the M2 is about $75 before discounts. I'd also try the B&W Nautilus.

Big electrostats could also be an option.

 

RE: Let's assume that it is to replace large Dunlavys, or, be basically, posted on October 27, 2022 at 08:30:29
cawson@onetel.com
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 > The prime consideration is that they do not want a ported design, because below the port-tuning frequency, ported designs' bass drops like a dropped ring of car keys.


This needs questioning! Most studio speakers, where ACCURACY is more important than any other feature, nearly all are of ported design eg the big ATC speakers. Why does the party asking for sealed box shut his mind to ports? Even if he dislikes his existing ported speakers, the fact they are ported is unlikely to be the real reason for his dissatisfaction.

My own speakers have a sealed box bass section with twin 12" drivers each side, so perhaps he should be looking towards Avantgarde horn speakers. These sound spectacular, but horns don't often measure particularly well. For this reason you don't find them in studios, but in homes where the owner wants to hear music as lifelike as is possible, they are second to none - or perhaps good electrostatics maybe. I'd not recommend ATC or other studio speakers as they are less suitable in the domestic environment than in recording studios where giving pleaser to the listener is lower down the priority list than accuracy. In fact I've read a comment by a recoding engineer that studio speakers should be designed to sound bad in a way that allows him to quickly identify where he needs to apply his editing skills to reduce the bad as much as he can, so that the finished mix (what we listen to on CD, vinyl or streamed) is as good as can be achieved from the original performance.

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 27, 2022 at 09:16:00
peppy m.
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Posts: 2242
Joined: February 19, 2021
 NHT C4 at $2400 a pair is the most affordable sealed-box ("acoustic-suspension") option I can think of.

Not a "pro" speaker but (like a pro speaker) it can play loud with low distortion.

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 27, 2022 at 11:11:52
G Squared
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 They have a port, but do not exhibit any of the negatives associated with ported speakers as you noted. I have never been one to choose a speaker based on type. I would rather focus on fitness for purpose and they are great monitors.
Gsquared

 

RE: Classic Audio Loudspeakers makes some nice stuff, posted on October 27, 2022 at 12:38:42
Ralph
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Posts: 4774
Location: Minnesota
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 98dB, 20-25KHz response. No breakups in the midrange field-coil-powered driver so its very smooth. I've had a set of T3s for the last 25 years- updated the crossovers added the second 15" woofer and beryllium midrange diaphragm in that time. Its one of the fastest and more neutral speakers I've heard. This would be a great monitor in a high end studio as the speakers can be placed directly against the wall behind them and still image nicely owing to the midrange horn.

Owing to its 20Hz response, you would only need two subs placed elsewhere to break up standing waves.

Alternatively you could get a set of Swarm subs, since there are 4 of them you would only need to get to 60Hz, making your choice of main speaker a lot easier.

 

RE: Classic Audio Loudspeakers makes some nice stuff, posted on October 27, 2022 at 12:47:41
hahax@verizon.net
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 T3 but if that's the model what is the manufacturer?

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 27, 2022 at 12:53:10
hahax@verizon.net
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 But it's ported and I'd have to see if it rolls off in the bass at 12 dB/octave like a closed box(like Rockport claims for their ported speakers). But they'd still be unloaded below bass resonance like all ported speakers which can waste power and be dangerous to the user.

By the way I'm a huge ATC fan and have reviewed 2 of their smaller, sealed-box designs and loved them. If I wasn't retired with limited income the powered ATC 50 would be on my short list.

 

Classic Audio Loudspeakers model T3, posted on October 27, 2022 at 12:55:38
Ralph
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 It might be T3.3 or T3.4, not sure about that.

Made in Brighton, MI.

 

What about a line array?, posted on October 27, 2022 at 13:13:53
Dave_K
 One of the characteristics of a WMTMW design is directivity in the vertical plane. I was thinking a line array would be another way to get similar directivity.

The Dali Megaline came to mind, but that's ported. The big Wisdom Audio line arrays have planar magnetic drivers. I heard them at a show in Sydney about 10 years ago and they were impressive, sounding like Quad ESLs but several times bigger in scale. They do require companion subwoofers though.

 

A little birdie told me, posted on October 27, 2022 at 17:39:44
Doublej
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 It might be these or one of the lesser models in the series.

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 27, 2022 at 17:58:10
G Squared
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 My ProAcs have ATC mids and bass drivers. Some of the best transducers of their day. I recently had one of the mids rebuilt. They hold up well after 35+ years.
Gsquared

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 28, 2022 at 01:12:08
hahax@verizon.net
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 It still is a ported speaker. But here's some trivia to make you feel good(incase you didn't know). Gordon Holt loved ATC speakers and reviewed a 5.1 system in the early 2000s. After he left Stereophile the last speakers he bought for himself, because they were among very few speakers he felt made great recordings sound real, was a set of powered ATC 50A speakers.

 

Absolutely wonderful website..., posted on October 28, 2022 at 08:45:11
musetap
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  Since: January 28, 2004
 A joy on so many levels.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

Gordon has good taste. nt, posted on October 28, 2022 at 15:01:14
G Squared
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 .
Gsquared

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 29, 2022 at 04:48:27
cawson@onetel.com
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 Interestingly I bought active ATC50s at about that time, but they were a huge disappointment after my big KEF Reference 1072. The ATCs were far too much "in yer face" for comfortable listening - I wanted to push them 20 ft further away. However I know people for love their big ATCs. You mention Stereophile - it was after reading their review of the Avantgarde Unos (and choose them as Speaker of the Year) that I first considered these crazy looking horn speakers. What a breath of fresh air after the ATCs! I kept the Unos for 17 years before upgrading to Duos (circa 2006) and now new Duo XDs.

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 29, 2022 at 15:04:25
hahax@verizon.net
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 And yet Gordon Holt who had a great ear for live sound considered the active ATC 50 as one of the few speakers that could reproduce a good recording properly. Ah well.

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on October 29, 2022 at 17:59:40
hahax@verizon.net
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 The problem is since Thiel/Small made designing ported boxes fairly easy and since ported boxes are more efficient and sound like they have more bass even though it's inferior bass, good closed boxes are rare. Off the top of my head I only can think of Magico, YG, etc. But I have one crazy idea. The small ATC speakers are closed box and very good down to about 50 Hz and available both active and passive. Add the new ATC 70 sub woofer and you probably would have a superb wide band design for about 20 grand.

 

Pro Equipment Compared with Domestic, posted on October 30, 2022 at 17:52:04
cawson@onetel.com
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 That may well be true but it doesn't mean that other speakers aren't a lot more exciting to listen to. Having "accuracy" as its main requirement, being a studio monitor, is not necessarily the home listener's best friend!

Valve amps are far from accurate but most tube users find them more lifelike that dead accurate solid state amps. I bought the Benchmark AHB2 amp soon after it was released on a rave recommendation by a fellow Avantgarde owner. It is accurate, it is silent, but it is just dull. Compared with my 845-based mono amps, but when the Benchmark was playing I was inclined to turn down its volume, whereas when the valve amps were playing, the urge was to turn them up.

It's another example of the fundamental difference between professional equipment compared with domestic stuff. One is designed for the engineer to hear where the base material is poor so he can work his magic, compared with the other that's designed to excite the listener at home without emphasising what may still be wrong with the recording.

 

RE: "good closed boxes are rare" Maybe true, but..., posted on October 31, 2022 at 08:50:40
peppy m.
Audiophile

Posts: 2242
Joined: February 19, 2021
 ... I think that budget-friendly NHT does a respectable job. I own a pair of NHT C3 speakers.

The "Classic Four" tower has been replaced by the C4 tower, but they are essentially the same speakers.

 

anyone making 'Motional Feedback' like the old Philips design?, posted on October 31, 2022 at 13:17:19
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10453
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 small, internally bi-amped, nice bass for a small size. I used to have a pair but it could use a redesign as they were made back in the 70's



 

+1, posted on November 2, 2022 at 12:50:35
Craiger56
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  Since: December 29, 2003



I was in the sealed only camp before hearing these at various shows, simply the richest sounding bass I have heard in a reasonable size speaker, very nearly as good as the Vandersteen Model 7

Acoustic Zenn Crescendo

 

RE: Nominations, Please: What is the best full-range sealed-box loudspeaker available "new," today?, posted on November 3, 2022 at 09:03:02
Krav Maga
Audiophile

Posts: 2355
Location: Texas
Joined: October 19, 2017
 No specific recommendations, but I'm sure that Magico, Perlisten, and YG Acoustics have models that should be considered.
"All thoughts are prey to some beast" - Bill Callahan

"I'll be your mirror
Reflect what you are" - Lou Reed

"Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein

 

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