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Got conflicting answers from several sources re: Pass XA25 amp. Question about power requirements for my spkrs.

173.70.97.80
Posted on September 29, 2020 at 10:42:55
Rick W
 I have Sonus Faber Minuettos. SF says they're 88db but Atkinson measured 85dB/W/m. They are an easy load and never go below 6.5ohms but Atkinson said they're 12ohms in treble.

I'd really like to get a Pass XA25 which was highly rec'd by the tech I use and has received rave reviews. He is a Pass dealer and thinks the amp would work w/my Spkrs. Too long a story to tell ya why I can't hear the amp via my tech. Guy at Pass I spoke to wasn't so sure in view of the 12ohm treble. My tech was surprised that Pass guy said that, disagreed and asked who at Pass I spoke to. This has me pondering the Pass X150.8, which is a quite different amp employing many more output devices than the XA25 and no doubt would result in a different sound.

I think there is a way to try an XA25 from one dealer far away from me, but looking for opinions from anyone here who is knowledgeable about this issue before I deal with potential PITA of return shipping. TIA.

 

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I'd expect a demo on my speakers from any 'Pass Dealer'..., posted on September 29, 2020 at 14:30:33
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 even if it's a tech friend who doesn't stock the things. Mostly based on your speakers.

Borderline, but might work.

My Joseph Audio 'Pulsars' are a stand mount speakers that were measured as a mere 84dB by JA, but they are a very easy load dropping to 6 Ohms and mostly flat and with few phase issues.

But still.

25 class 'A' watts, good as they may be, are still just a few watts.

I would try before I buy.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Got conflicting answers from several sources re: Pass XA25 amp. Question about power requirements for my spkrs., posted on September 29, 2020 at 14:50:28
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 2529
Joined: March 8, 2002
 I dont see the 12 ohm treble being a problem. Very little power going to that part of the spectrum.

 

RE: I'd expect a demo on my speakers from any 'Pass Dealer'..., posted on September 29, 2020 at 17:29:57
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 It is stable to 2 ohms and 50 watts at 4 ohms. Should easily drive the speakers

 

RE: Got conflicting answers from several sources re: Pass XA25 amp. Question about power requirements for my spkrs., posted on September 29, 2020 at 17:33:52
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 I don't see why it would be a problem - it's not like people who buy itty bitty speakers are playing thrash metal at 130dB.

The speaker is rated 25w to 120 watts - The Pass meets the speaker recommendation and it outputs 50 watts in 4ohm - plenty.

 

The question I have is, posted on September 29, 2020 at 17:47:52
ppopp
Audiophile

Posts: 2994
Location: OR
Joined: October 10, 2002
 How big is your room? Another question; do you like to go silly loud? I can't imagine you do - otherwise you would have picked Cerwin Wega instead of refined Italian craftmanship.
You should be just fine if your room isn't large. And if it doesn't work out, Pass Labs amplifiers hold their value rather well.

 

RE: The question I have is, posted on September 29, 2020 at 18:07:50
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 And if the room is large - the speakers don't make sense.

 

Room is about 20 x 11. Wide variety of music, kinda moderate loudness., posted on September 29, 2020 at 18:43:39
Rick W
 Just wanna avoid things like harshness during orchestral peaks and get as much defined bass as my spkrs. allow in room, which with my now dead McCormack DNA 1 Deluxe has been fine. But its around 175 wpc into 8 ohms.

 

Exactly, posted on September 29, 2020 at 19:04:18
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 It's driving low ohm speakers that's the problem. Driving a 12ohm tweeter uses LESS power, not more.

 

Yeah, I was kinda surprised at what the Pass rep said. But I assume...., posted on September 30, 2020 at 08:01:35
Rick W
 its because the amp would put out less than 25 watts at 12 ohms. I know 12 ohms in treble region is easier to drive but don't know if my spkrs. need more power to avoid problems during things like orchestral peaks. I've never tried an amp other than my fairly powerful DNA-1 with the spkrs.

 

RE: I'd expect a demo on my speakers from any 'Pass Dealer'..., posted on September 30, 2020 at 10:03:53
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Exactly..... try before you buy. If the OP is used to the power/headroom offered by the previous McCormack amp, that's the power range I'd be looking for.

 

Guys, the fact is in my area there is only one Pass dealer and....., posted on September 30, 2020 at 10:37:36
Rick W
 its the tech I use. He only has his demo XA25 and is not willing to let me take it home. He is also not having anybody check out gear in his tiny listening room - otherwise I'd have just brought my spkrs. there and this thread wouldn't exist. He has medical problems and is very worried about covid.

I do have a way to check out both XA25 and 150.8 (one at a time though) basically for the cost of return shipping plus around $200 restocking fee. Its far from an ideal situation, but if I wanna hear the amps in my system that is currently my only option. I'll probably do it simply because I do require hearing how an amp mates with my spkrs./room and suspect either the XA25 or 150.8 are the best ss options for my aural preferences.

Actually I would have already sent my DNA-1 to Steve McCormack for mods/upgrades and avoided this hassle but found out from Steve that they are so booked up that they couldn't work on my amp until January or February. I've been curious about how Pass amps compare with my DNA-1 anyway and I'm hoping I like it even more than the McCormack.

 

DNA-1, posted on September 30, 2020 at 10:58:29
jaynemo
Audiophile

Posts: 1881
Location: Connecticut
Joined: February 7, 2003
 Did you like the DNA-1? If so, why dont you send it back to Steve for a complete rebuild/upgrade? Probably about half the cost of a used 150.8.

 

RE: DNA-1, posted on September 30, 2020 at 13:31:29
Rick W
 I definitely liked my DNA-1 Deluxe. As I mentioned below I thought I was gonna send it to Steve for the max upgrades, but I spoke with him a few days ago and they're so booked up they wouldn't get to my amp - one channel is now dead - until late Jan. or February. The full upgrades ain't cheap - considerably more than 1/2 of both the used XA25 or 150.8 I'm pondering.

 

RE: Room is about 20 x 11. Wide variety of music, kinda moderate loudness., posted on September 30, 2020 at 13:50:37
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 I'm repeating myself, but if you want similar characteristics from that small speaker that you achieved with the McCormack, then you would choose the more powerful Pass amp.

 

I keep vacillating but you may well be right. Gonna discuss it with a dealer Pass rec'd. Thanks. nt, posted on September 30, 2020 at 14:03:08
Rick W
 nt

 

RE: DNA-1, posted on September 30, 2020 at 14:21:53
jaynemo
Audiophile

Posts: 1881
Location: Connecticut
Joined: February 7, 2003
 I hear ya, I love my DNA-1, I had sent it to Steve about 2 years ago for the full monty. I was looking for a high current SS amp that could drive a pair of German Physiks Borderland MK1's and the match is good. The DNA is driven by a fully restored Mark Levinson ML-26. The synergy is quite good. Round it off with some CAL 18 bit digital/tube gear and its a fun system for background fill the room with uniform sound as long as no one touches the damn DD drivers!

I almost sprung for the 150.8, but decided on a Wells Inammorata instead for the other system. I would like to hear a 150.8 for sure. Plenty of power for my Legacy Focus SE's. I listen to enough loud rock running PA systems so home is "mellow down easy" as that Little 'Ol Band from Texas once sang.

 

RE: Room is about 20 x 11. Wide variety of music, kinda moderate loudness., posted on September 30, 2020 at 14:23:59
jaynemo
Audiophile

Posts: 1881
Location: Connecticut
Joined: February 7, 2003
 For plenty of headroom of course!

 

RE: I keep vacillating but you may well be right. Gonna discuss it with a dealer Pass rec'd. Thanks. nt, posted on September 30, 2020 at 15:32:07
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 You're welcome. Yep, the only way to get a smaller speaker to satisfy your parameters in a decent size room is power/headroom. Your DNA-1 proved that.

 

RE: Yeah, I was kinda surprised at what the Pass rep said. But I assume...., posted on September 30, 2020 at 18:18:38
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 The one thing I would say is that if you feel low powered amps sound better, as I do, it makes more sense to buy speakers from designers who can actually hear the difference and know that lower powered class A amps sound better.

Thus, I would not shoehorn a class A amplifier with speakers really not designed by people who don't know or can't hear the difference. Buy Higher efficiency speakers; then, you can buy almost any amplifier.

 

So how's the Wells? nt, posted on September 30, 2020 at 20:27:48
Rick W
 nt

 

Maybe, but then I'd have to buy both spkrs. and amp., posted on September 30, 2020 at 20:36:21
Rick W
 I don't find high eff. spkrs. as a breed to be inherently superior, and in fact prefer what I have to some I've heard. I WOULD like to become familiar with SET amps and appropriate spkrs. but that ain't easy nowadays.

 

RE: Maybe, but then I'd have to buy both spkrs. and amp., posted on October 1, 2020 at 02:48:53
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Absolutely right - and that was before Covid! It is very difficult to go and audition something - love it - and then buy all the components.

Most of us have to do this in stages. So the best suggestion is try to audition and hear a total system you really like and then strive to get that system in stages. If that happens to be a SET and HE speaker then you sort of choose to do whichever one you can afford.

So a 20 ish watt class A will drive most speakers - and IF you plan to buy an HE speaker at some point then you can live with the amp for awhile because you have a plan to get more out of the amp later.

If you are absolutely tied to a speaker than is more suited to a 100 watt amplifier then that's great too - you just have to work on finding the amplification. So perhaps purchasing a more powerful amplifier with prein and later adding a tube preamp.

If you are willing to go to tubes - you can actually spend around what the PASS is going for - but get class A at higher power. But you then have to be willing to deal with tube amps. You could consider the Pureaudio One - it is class A and 100 watts per channel. And it can be used as a power amp. Engineers from Plinius left to form this company. But the amp is $10,000 US list which might be getting up there. Also, because it is not well known it will be harder to sell than Pass Labs.

 

RE: So how's the Wells? nt, posted on October 1, 2020 at 06:24:02
jaynemo
Audiophile

Posts: 1881
Location: Connecticut
Joined: February 7, 2003
 Its a very good sounding amp with solid construction. I did not opt for the extra By-Bee stuff. Its on the "warm" side but very detailed thru the mid and upper bands with very good bass control. I found it to be a good value. We A/B'd it with an older 3 channel Pass amp (forgot the model number and ran it in 2 channel), and surprisingly it was a close match. The Pass was slightly more detailed in the upper bands but the Wells edged out Pass in the bass. I was driving both amps during the A/B with a DeHavilland UV3. The UV3 and the Wells are very compatible. However, the UV3 smooths just about anything out with a very low noise floor to boot. The high sensitivity Legacy Focus SE's are always a good test on how quiet your upstream is. Jeff is also very nice to deal with.

 

Just curious , posted on October 1, 2020 at 06:47:25
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 If you get a Pass, what will you do with the DNA-1?

Will you hold onto it until you can have it restored?

I CLEARLY have no idea on how this system would match up, but I'd go for the Pass with more wattage.

 

RE: Yeah, I was kinda surprised at what the Pass rep said. But I assume...., posted on October 1, 2020 at 18:07:09
GEO
Audiophile

Posts: 4749
Joined: April 7, 2000
Contributor
  Since: September 9, 2000
 I used to own a McCormack DNA-1. It was a nice amp. I went with a PP Class A tube amp and never looked back. Eventually went single ended maybe 17 years ago.

 

Right now I'm not sure what I'll do with the DNA-1., posted on October 2, 2020 at 07:21:00
Rick W
 For one thing I need to hear some other amp(s) with my spkrs. If I don't find an amp that I like better than the DNA-1 I might end up buying a cheap amp to use for a few months and send the McCormack to Steve. I'd guess someone would be interested in buying it for a modest amount of money to send for upgrades themselves. Definitely won't make a decision for a while.

 

Is McCormack of VA still doing DNA upgrades? , posted on October 4, 2020 at 11:39:27
kff
Audiophile

Posts: 1034
Location: SE PA
Joined: October 19, 2006
 Good option for those on in the eastern US.

 

Upgrades are by Steve McCormack in California. nt, posted on October 4, 2020 at 13:07:03
Rick W
 nt

 

Yes, I know, but McCormack was bought by Conrad Johnson, posted on October 5, 2020 at 09:33:08
kff
Audiophile

Posts: 1034
Location: SE PA
Joined: October 19, 2006
 and they (CJ as McCormack of VA) does (did) similar upgrades.

OK if you have to have sMc upgrades then it has to go to CA. But to get a unit fixed, there is a way to spend half as much on shipping.

 

RE: Guys, the fact is in my area there is only one Pass dealer and....., posted on October 6, 2020 at 17:39:06
Joe Backer
Audiophile

Posts: 1033
Joined: July 10, 2011
 It's a necessary evil, spending the money for a trial. You should really do it. I've wished I've done it this way so many times. Much easier than taking the loss from an Audiogon resale.

 

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