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Stacking

106.203.121.72
Posted on May 17, 2020 at 06:31:33
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8386
Joined: June 3, 2006
 I have placed a speaker on top of my main speaker with the tweeter below the woofer to get that Dr Joseph (I forget the last name)effect. I like how it sounds. But I wonder what kind of isolation pad or little legs I should have between the speakers. Will it make any improvement to the sound? Long time back I had stacked Advents with nothing between the speakers.

Bill

 

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D'Appolito (NT), posted on May 17, 2020 at 07:34:52
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12436
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002

 

RE: Stacking, posted on May 17, 2020 at 08:32:59
PAR
Audiophile

Posts: 1732
Location: South London, UK
Joined: June 4, 2019
 " But I wonder what kind of isolation pad or little legs I should have between the speakers. Will it make any improvement to the sound? "

Yes it will make a difference and hopefully a positive one. The interface between stand and speaker is always an important consideration and in this case the lower speaker is acting as a stand for the upper one.

The best things that I have come across are isoacoustics pucks. I would suggest going for the ones that they make for professional audio to save money over the home user types (Gaia or Orea). The pro ones have a simple black finish but otherwise are I think identical. The size and number that you need will depend upon the weight of the loudspeaker.

"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams

 

RE: Stacking, posted on May 17, 2020 at 09:32:09
Don Reid
Audiophile

Posts: 890
Location: Rural NW Georgia
Joined: February 2, 2001
Contributor
  Since: April 1, 2010
 Bill the K, I think you might referring to Doctor Joseph d'Appolito, a brilliant and friendly professor and speaker designer. Note that a d'Appolito array requires not only a vertically symmetrical driver arrangment but also odd order crossover slopes.
I dream of an America where a chicken can cross the road without having it's motives questioned.

 

How about Blu Tak. It holds the speaker still and prevents vibrations between the speakers. nt, posted on May 17, 2020 at 11:11:59
alaskahiatt
Audiophile

Posts: 7508
Joined: December 9, 2000
Contributor
  Since: November 1, 2005
 nt

 

Blu-Tack sounds good! I'll bet Sorbothane should work, too..., posted on May 17, 2020 at 14:13:24
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Of course, Blu-Tack is probably a lot cheaper. ;-)

 

RE: Blu-Tack sounds good! I'll bet Sorbothane should work, too..., posted on May 17, 2020 at 14:40:10
rivervalley817
 has Sorbothane improved? used it years ago and found that it 'sweat' and messed up finishes .. wasn't cheap back then either

 

It sounds strange but it works, posted on May 17, 2020 at 16:59:27
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 Go to the foot care isle in any drug store and look for PPT, sorbothane or Gel inserts. Cut them up and THERE ya go.

 

RE: Blu-Tack sounds good! I'll bet Sorbothane should work, too..., posted on May 17, 2020 at 17:03:16
chocolate_lover9999@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1628
Location: South Central Coast, California
Joined: October 12, 2003
 Nope..sorbothane will always do that unfortunately. Putting a piece of saran wrap or the like between the finish and the sorbothane will help prevent it.

 

Joseph D'Appolito , posted on May 17, 2020 at 18:38:27
hifitommy
Audiophile

Posts: 15388
Location: canyon country califiornia, orig from buffalo ny
Joined: June 9, 2000
 see link below
...regards...tr

 

mnemonic..., posted on May 17, 2020 at 19:05:21
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8386
Joined: June 3, 2006
 problem I have with Dr Joseph's name. Joseph is connected to Joseph Audio. Now I have the D to take care of. Perhaps I will use Doris Day. Every time I hear Que sera sera will think of the good old Doctor.

Bill

 

RE: Stacking, posted on May 17, 2020 at 20:09:58
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4310
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 Two things. Even order works. D'Appolito assumed ONE(not two) tweeters sandwiched between to larger drivers. Two tweeters doesn't work properly.

 

Double Advents(& other speakers) Don't Work Correctly, posted on May 17, 2020 at 20:32:54
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4310
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 Harry Pearson, who 1st wrote about double Advents(tweeters together with the top speaker upside down) was wrong. Double Advents don't work properly and are inferior to single Advents.

I had a friend decades ago thinking of buying double Advents I took my IMF Studio II speakers for a comparison. Everyone agreed the IMFs were superior. Then I suggested going to single Advents. They were better.

Double Advents fuzzy the definition at tweeter frequencies due to comb filtering(sort of Bose 901s at tweeter frequencies. Detail is less precise and imaging is less defined. Individual instruments are harder to precisely balance. Octave to octave balance changes. It's more bass heavy because bass frequencies add but higher frequencies don't.

All the above is true for any speakers used like double Advents. The question of what to put or not put between the boxes is way less important. You may like what double Advents do. I suspect many would call them more musical but the are less accurate; they change the signal more than single versions.

Gersham speakers has a speaker that looks like a double. It has two speakers tweeter to tweeter. And it sounds good. But they don't just stack the speakers. They alter the crossover to the tweeters to compensate so the two tweeter only work up to a certain frequency and then switch to a single tweeter for the top frequencies.

 

RE: Blu-Tack sounds good! I'll bet Sorbothane should work, too..., posted on May 17, 2020 at 23:03:08
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 > Putting a piece of saran wrap or the like between the finish and the sorbothane will help prevent it.

That's exactly what I do!

 

RE: Double Advents(& other speakers) Don't Work Correctly, posted on May 17, 2020 at 23:06:49
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8386
Joined: June 3, 2006
 I remember enjoying the double Advents better than single. I thought then that there was improvement in the high frequencies. It was the seventies and I had just bought Rogers LS3/5A and I thought Rogers was better. Perhaps psychological effect of having the Rogers brought from London.Did not think of stacking the Rogers!!

Bill

 

RE: Stacking, posted on May 17, 2020 at 23:11:13
2chblast
Audiophile

Posts: 196
Location: Calgary
Joined: February 7, 2004



How about this stack --- 4 tweeters head to head

 

RE: Stacking, posted on May 17, 2020 at 23:17:31
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8386
Joined: June 3, 2006
 I once placed a speaker upside down 0n top of a speaker I had made with a full range driver. It sounded strange. The music was coming from off axis giving the impression of a skewed sculpture.

Bill

 

RE: Double Advents(& other speakers) Don't Work Correctly, posted on May 17, 2020 at 23:28:07
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4310
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 Ken Kessler, perhaps the biggest LS3/5a advocate is a big fan of stacked LS3/5a's.

I understand liking stacked 2 ways. They sound warmer and smoother and more musical with a fuller less differentiated sound stage. They definitely lose transparency and precise imaging and clarity. I recall John Crabbe, a great editor of Hi Fi News describing the Acoustic Research LST, a speaker with multiple drivers covering the mids and highs as a sonic wodge of sound. That's a good description of double Advents.

 

RE: Double Advents(& other speakers) Don't Work Correctly, posted on May 18, 2020 at 05:43:06
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8386
Joined: June 3, 2006
 I suddenly got a nostalgia kick. The 1980s and HFNews with Crabbe as editor and JA and KK around. I loved the magazine those days.KK even had a nickname for JA!!

Bill

 

I ran doubles for years in the garage, posted on May 18, 2020 at 06:26:31
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 It is a compromise, but improves image size and output capability. I used mine at neighbor's house for their daughter's Halloween parties for several years running. :)

 

Tekton didn't get that memo, posted on May 18, 2020 at 06:30:31
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002

 

RE: Tekton didn't get that memo, posted on May 18, 2020 at 07:23:36
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4310
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 First, Tektons work differently. Only one tweeter goes all the way to top frequencies. Second I didn't like them at the DC show last year but I know I really needed much more time to really hear what's going on.

 

RE: Stacking, posted on May 18, 2020 at 08:35:19
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10459
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I had NO problem stacking Visonik David's back in college powered by a Fisher 400 tube rig in a small room. Tweeter to tweeter of course.



 

RE: Double Advents(& other speakers) Don't Work Correctly, posted on May 18, 2020 at 10:52:43
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4310
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 Totally agree with you about Hi Fi News then. I began subscribing in the 70s based on Gordon Holt's recommendation. Credit cards didn't work then so I needed a bank transfer which cost more than the subscription. But it was worth it.

 

Line array!, posted on May 18, 2020 at 11:00:51
Brian H P
Audiophile

Posts: 1291
Location: Oregon
Joined: December 18, 2012
 At least with the tweeters. Might call the whole stack a WWWMMTTTTMMWWW configuration.

 

RE: Stacking, posted on May 19, 2020 at 21:20:39
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8386
Joined: June 3, 2006
 From the deep recesses of my storage room I dished out small black pucks. But they are hard. Wonder if they isolate vibrations. I have placed four of them on top of the bottom speaker. I am presently unable to tell if the sound has improved. There is a nagging feeling that the sound has hardened a bit. That could be a psychological reaction to the hardness of the puck.I have asked the wife to pick up some sponges that she buys for kitchen use. I also want to try the pads that airtime has suggested. This lockdown has to end for the shopping to start. I am at the vulnerable age.Sorry for the rambling.

Best Regards
Bill

 

I used stacked Advents for a while. , posted on May 20, 2020 at 03:43:51
ghost of olddude55
Audiophile

Posts: 32591
Joined: July 14, 2017
 put shelf liner material between the speakers. Didn't sound any different but it kept the speakers from sliding around when the cats jumped on them.



The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.

 

RE: Double Advents(& other speakers) Don't Work Correctly, posted on May 20, 2020 at 04:22:46
JonM
Audiophile

Posts: 292
Joined: December 29, 2000
 If I remember correctly, the original Harry Pearson review of the "Double Advent Loudspeaker" never mentioned stacking. In fact, he did mention hearing "Triple Advents" (3 per channel, in a shop in Atlanta), but not stacking.

If the speakers were placed side by side, since the woofers would be closer, I imagine the bass coupling of the woofers would be even better, and since the tweeters would be farther apart, the comb filtering would be less. So side-by-side Double Advents might sound better than stacked. Harry might have been onto something.

I ran stacked larger Advents for many years. They were less focused than single Advents, but to me they were simply more pleasant to listen to. I never experimented with double Advents, side by side. Not sure why...

 

RE: Line array!, posted on May 21, 2020 at 06:52:28
2chblast
Audiophile

Posts: 196
Location: Calgary
Joined: February 7, 2004
 just need high ceilings and a big room
and a strong back...those are big and heavy

 

RE: Unsurprising, but better yet, EAR SD-40, posted on May 21, 2020 at 12:39:40
B. Scarpia
 Used in aerospace and marine damping applications for electronics. Michael Percy sells small sheets.

It's under all my transformers and between the brackets and shelf of my wall mount turntable. Used it for years.

This thread and the one above with sand bags under speakers...how does one get a flat surface so as not to change the wavefront of the speaker?

 

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