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merlin TSM

140.226.99.216

Posted on March 15, 1999 at 09:46:28
Keith F


 
Hello,

I'm currently searching for a new pair of speakers, and th TSM seems appealing. I have not heard them as no one sells them near me. The dealer that used to sell them addmitted that they are a great speaker, however he said that he kept having to pre pay for the speakers in order to get them etc.. and this presented problems. I would consider the vsm but they are a little to expensive right now. Other monitors I have heard are totem 1, dunlavy1. Neither of these really moved me. I have a medium room(18x13x8),I don't usually listen over 100db. I currently have a ss amp but would like to eventually get a tube amp maybe a 20 w set. I recently heard my first set (cary 300 se integrated) I liked it and am definately going to investigate these creatures further. If anyone on this board has heard these , any info would be great to hear.
Thanks

 

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Re: merlin TSM, posted on March 15, 1999 at 13:52:28
Bryan F.


 
~~~I have not auditioned the TSM. Though I have only heard good things about them. I do own the VSM SE though. My speakers arrived about 2 1/2 weeks ago and I am in love to say the least. It took me a year to find a new speaker. It was a long year to say the least.
~~~Bobby at Merlin is a perfectionist and I am sure that the TSM is every bit as good as the VSM SE. I could go on and on but I won't. However if you call Galen Carol he will probaly send you a pair to audition. He is a great guy. Oh, and the VSM SE loves tubes to say the least and are perfectly at home powered by a 25 watt SET. I have yet to clip my Welborne Labs Apollo's. I hope this helps

 

Re: merlin TSM, posted on March 15, 1999 at 18:31:23
Dave Derrick


 

I owned a pair of TSMs, before trading them towards a CES show pair of VSM-SEs last year.

I auditioned A LOT of minimonitors before settling on the TSMs, and to my ears, they were the best (overall...other worthy speakers bested them in one way or another) I heard anywhere near the price. Again though, this is 'my ears' and my tastes. You may well prefer something else altogether. While I prefer the VSM-SEs, dollar for dollar and pound for pound, the TSMs may be more speaker for the money.

TSM-SEs exist now, but I have not had a chance to hear them.

If you have trouble arranging to hear a pair, call Bobby Palkovic at Merlin directly. He is a pleasure to talk with, and may be able to help you out.

 

Your thoughts on the speaker history., posted on March 16, 1999 at 11:46:43
Edp


 
Merlin is kinda a difficult company for a DIY'er to like. (And I had that impression long before any run ins I had with either the company or owners over some listening sessions questions I had)

I like how they sound in general.

One of the first things that I think of with Merlin, is what appears the rapid price growth that the basic line has had. I seem to recall that units that were $1500/$4000 just a couple of years ago are now $2500/$6500 for the same basic unit with some SE thrown on the end.

Second, except for the Scan Speak 8545 custom coating, they use darn near off shelf units (good ones with tight specs though). Clearly the xovers are extremely well done, but the basic presentation is defined as much by the driver selection, than what they have done with them.

But although it may seem I don't like them or resent them, I actually like companies like Merlin. The inspire a new generation of DIY'ers to be motivated since they have nearly the same basic materials at their disposal. Of course theres that xover experience issue that keeps them from really attaining the same level of performance. But that hefty price increase still lingers.

I guess I'm just reliving why I started this hobby "all those years ago"

End rant.

 

Re: merlin TSM, posted on March 16, 1999 at 12:26:37
Jack G


 
If your planning on going the SET route, do your homework. don't follow thw hype. Merlin has lots of competion(most don't use equalizers)-check them out too.Plan ahead.
Jack

 

Re: merlin TSM, posted on March 16, 1999 at 14:06:30
Bryan F.


 
~~~Why are you so against Merlins products may I ask? Did you have a bad experiance as I didn't buy the hype. I spent a year auditioning and couldn't find anything better than the VSM SE. It was that good to my ear. I understand why you are leary of an eq but the BAM is no typical eq and not just another JPS Magic Flute.

Just wondering!

 

Re: merlin TSM, posted on March 17, 1999 at 04:36:07
Jack G


 
I never said I was against Merlins, just that there is alot of competition out there-especially if one is going to use SETs, where the rules are different.All I said was check out lots of speakers. I am aware the BAM isn't your typical magic flute, its got better parts in it. Just out of curiousity, what other speakers did you audition?
Jack

 

Re: merlin TSM, posted on March 17, 1999 at 09:10:38
keith f


 
As far as I know the TSM does not use an equalizer only the vsm and anyway what difference does it make if one likes the way it presents the music?
kf

 

Re: merlin TSM, posted on March 17, 1999 at 09:25:22
Jack G


 
If you like adding extra parts,connections, cables etc. in the signal path thats your right. It does kind of defeat the purpose of SETs tho, IMO-others will disagree.
Jack

 

Jack G., posted on March 17, 1999 at 12:56:41
Bryan F.


 
.....it may take some time to collect my thoughts on this question. As it covers almost a year of auditioning.

First of all this time around I decided to shop for speakers and then find proper amplification for them. True I did want to go single ended but what I really wanted was one hell of a pair of speakers. I wanted a pair that not only could do visual displays but more importantly be able to convey music properly. Having a tonal balance from top to bottem. Well, at least I did want to be in the mid 30's. Most speakers do NOT do this. Most offer awesome imaging and a week midrange. Soundstaging that is immense but treble that is edtched. Speakers that cost 5 digits and yet use metal domes. I could go on and on.

The speaker industry is a very crappy industry. With a lot of well reviewed speakers being flawed. I can name a few and so can many. Now at the speaker level I demand that a speaker be able to at least produce the frequencies and in between in which it is rated at. Many speakers have dips and peaks that are far from this. Now I don't mind coloration as all transducers offer a different color. However they do need to be able to reproduce the mid-bass and midrange and offer smooth treble. Integraing bass into the scheme of things. Very very few companies offer this.

So I went out and decided that I would find the best pair of speakers that I could afford and offered a decent sensitivity so they could be powered by low powered amplifiers. Though I did listen to some of the less effecient speakers. However I did notice that the lower the impedance and the lower the sensitivity the more forced the sound was. Also the more sensitive the less forced the sound the less accurat for the most part. Trade-offs......well actually I can name a few speakers that offer little tradeoffs. Though this is not the industry standard.

Also Jack I believe that I might have been the one that told you about the Avantguarde Buckinghams. As I remember telling you about them on AR and also telling you that they were not going to use the Altec 604 due to the fact that production of the 604 ceased. Then I remember that you commented that they could probaly be had for a good price. Yep, there were a few pairs floating around for $3600-3900. Hey, wait a minute a week or two later you bought a pair if memory serves me right.....heeheehee...

So lets talk speakers.....let's make a list. Though it will be from memory so I am sure that I will leave a lot out. Heres the ones I can remember. Also these are brief descriptions and are all my opinions for those who may be ofended.

Proac 2.5....box is tuned low which gives you a good low end and is a good marketing ploy for the US but the lower midrange suffers. Treble also isn't as smooth or clean sounding as other speakers in it's price range.

Proac 3.8.....gets more right than that of the 2.5. As the upgraded tweeter proves to be smoother and more resolved. The midrange more precise due to the implementation of a second 18W/8545 woofer.

Audio Physic Virgo....smooth ass treble, dissappears.....big deal as the midrange is veiled and wrong to my ear. A B it with any of the Praoc's above and it is very easy to hear this. Listen to it alone and it may fool you. Also these guys are extremly picky with what kind of gear is used with them. Is it because they are accurate or is it because they are flawed...this question is up for grabs.

Von Schweikert VR4, 4.5, and 6's.......all good in a big room and excel in macrodynamics however they offer little to no finesse and I wish Von Schweikert would use soft domes. The VR6's do look good.

Ares I and II.....the II is a sleeper. Made for those who love tubes and low powered ones at that. As they are easy to set up and are very giving and HIGHLY MUSICAL.......they are 90db effecient and have one of the flattest impedance curves i have seen. As I have been told that they are no more than 1/10 of an ohm minimal as opposed to their nominal rating. Maybe this is why the Cary CAD-300SE signatures had no problem driving them. They are rated down to 30hz, however they do roll of rather fast below 40hz and probaly boast usable bass down to around the mid thirties

Wilson WATT/Puppy 5.1 and Witt II.....5.1 imaging junkies will love however they can be harsh, cold, are to bass heavy, and lack a true midrange. Just unplug the Puppies and listen........oh did I mention listener fatigue...even my 3.2's were hard to listen to for more than an hour. The 5.1 continues the tradition. Also I am told that the speaker measured down 5db from 200HZ and up....interesting lil' flaw for such an expensive beast. Also a speaker that will suck you in and after a week make you regret it. Just look at all those used pairs on the market.

Meadowlark Shearwater and Heron......I like the Shearwter way better than the Heron....the Shearwatter offer value and loves tubes

Thiel CS1.5, 2.3, 3.6....tinny bloated speakers that I really don't get as I can't get buy the sharp treble and bloated bass. Also they love power and hate tubes for the most part. So the brightness only gets worse!

Sonus Faber Electa Amator II's, Concertino, and Grand Piano.....all highly musical. Though I liked the Concerto and Amator over the Pianos.

Martin Logan Request, Aerius, SL3.....ummmm...transparent but lacking dynamics. Woofer also doesn't fully integrate with the panel on the Requests especially. As the panel is too accurate and fast for the coned woofer. Many will dissagree but listen to some fast hard transients over and over....

Odeon La Traviata and No.30......good hybrid. As the horn marries extremly well with the horn. Not the last word in accuracy however very open, spacious, and musical..they make you melt....

AvantGarde Uno......woofer doesn't integrate as well as the Odeons. As the treble and mids seem to flow free while the bass seems a tad forced. I like the Odeons much more.

Thats about all I feel about writing for now. As I realize that I may be here for days. Other sspeakers include the Shakespear, whachever model their black tiled speakers are, Aerial 10T and 7B, Tannoy unsure of model, Spendor SP9, Avalon Avatar and Eclipse, B&W 801's amonst others, Dynaudio Confidence 3, Dunlavy SCIII, and IV, PSB Stratus Gold, Proac 2S, Montana can't remember models off hand Avantguarde Buckinghams.....Ok, my mind is fried. As I am forgetting some. I am sure I will remember others as soon as I post.

IMHO the Merlins were the best. Well, unless I spet twice their price. They dissappear, are fast, offer finesse but not like that of a horn or a full range speaker, they are dynamic but lack when compaired to speakers that use bigger woofers. They offer much more than a wide deep soundstage as it is very layered..........Most importantly they are well balanced and natural sounding. As they go pretty low, not finding them bass shy at all. They also roll off gradually which is very welcome. Treble is smooth rightous. The midrange is perfect. As the most important thing that they do is reproduce the music part of music. Sure they offer all the visuals one could ask for like imaging and soundstaging. However thhey can actually produce the frequency spectrum in which they were intended to.

All this and they love tubes. 8 Ohms nominal and 6.5 minimal. Sure they are only 89 db effecient which is low from a SET standpoint however my 25 watts is serving my needs and actually is more than enough. I know of a few people that are uing single digit power and I know and half talked with someone who is using a FI 2A3 amplifier. Noting that volume is the only limitation and he listens at moderate levels so he is happy. Very interesting as I have always wanted to own a 2A3. Jack I could go on but it is pointless. The Merlins are that good and while they are hyped they are far from being all over the place and unheard of by a lot of people. I will agree that the TSM may not be a SET fan as it may like pp's better. The VSM on the other hand loves tubes. Even the finicky OTL love em.


 

I dissagree in this case..., posted on March 17, 1999 at 13:13:38
Bryan F.


 
....as I believe that less is better. That shorter signal paths equal better sound. I also have to admit that I use to believe more is better. As this is all I was taught. I believed until I started playing with less and less and less. However then I came across the VSM SE and I was skeptical. As I didn't want a BAM. I wanted less and less. Well, after toying around I will agree with Bobby. The BAM betters the performance by 30% and only trades off 3% or whatever the exact percentage would be. The increase I am talking about isn't bass either. Though that increases also. I would have to say that people are close minded in that they don't believe in eq's. Hell, I didn't. Then again the BAM is no normal eq. Jack G. call Bobby and let him explain the BAM. As it isn't a magic flute with better parts it is far more than that. Call him trust me on this. Also after living with the VSM SE I would have to say that anyone who thinks of it less because of an eq is biased as they haven't lived with it and don't even realize it's potential. Remember that it is possible to do what is thought to not be possible. As years ago you never thought that 7 watts could power a speaker and look what happened when you opened pandora's box. Below is the link. At the bottom of the page you will find the number. Ask for Bobby Palkovic as he can help with your questions and stereotypes. As Merlin should be placed far away from stereotypes. As he is setting a new standard for far less than one would think

 

Bryan F, posted on March 17, 1999 at 16:00:32
ZP


 
You obviously have done considerable auditioning and I wondered if you had auditioned the Beethovens from Vienna Acoustics? IF so what your comments are. Your reply will be greatly appreciated.

ZP

 

Re: I dissagree in this case..., posted on March 17, 1999 at 20:35:12
Rodney Gold


 
All crossovers are Eq's of some sort

 

Re: I dissagree in this case..., posted on March 17, 1999 at 22:06:27
Bryan F.


 
I don't follow. As yes a crossover is a kind of eq, however I am talking about the BAM or bass alignment module. It is connected between the pre and amp or preferably the source and pre. I realize that it to is an eq. My point is that people dismiss such things as they legnthen the signal path. Yes, they do however they can have a positive impact on the sound if designed correctly. Few eq's have been designed correctly. I believe this is one of them as I own the VSM SE and have toyed with the use of it and without the use of it. To dismiss without doing such a thing is being way too biased in my opinion. As the VSM SE measures and sounds incredible.

 

Re: Bryan F, posted on March 17, 1999 at 22:46:55
Bryan F.


 
Sorry but i have no experiance with Vienna Acoustics.....I wish I could hear everything but........

 

Jack I appologize if I sounded...., posted on March 17, 1999 at 23:05:47
Bryan F.


 
....evil in the post. I just re-read my posting and realized it may be taken the wrong way. It's just that I keep hearing less is better or that "all" eqs suck. However doesn't anyone consider that there may be an exception? Also the BAM primarely fixes the impedance which has a drastic effect as a speakers impedance and an amplifiers impedance aren't exactly close. I can't explain it as Bobby is best at describing how it exacly works and this is why I said to ask him.

 

No apology needed, posted on March 18, 1999 at 04:29:08
Jack G


 
I realized I touched a nerve critizing your new speakers-no offense was intended.
Jack

 

Very interesting, posted on March 18, 1999 at 04:45:00
Jack G


 
I totally agree with yourcomments on the speaker industry-I too think many of the highly rated ones sound like crap-but thats true with audio in general.:-( Yes, you did tell me the Gallantes were going on sale-I knew about them for years, even spoke to Gallante himself, but didn't want to shell out $7.5K(he doesn't take plastic). Nice overview on speakers. i'm surprised you auditioned some of theose speakers, since they aren't SET freindly. Where did you hear the odeons? They are a rare (and visually bizzarre) speaker. The avantegaurd Unos need a *big* room to integrate-oddly enough, the smaller their model, the bigger the room must be.
I was just curious because you never mentioned what you listened to in your speaker search.
enjoy,
Jack

 

Re: I dissagree in this case..., posted on March 18, 1999 at 08:46:13
Rodney Gold


 
Dont get me wrong , I use a Digital parametric EQ - I am a fan of EQ well done , my speakers too have DSP eq, room compensation etc , I fully agree with you there , the effects of correcting my bass response are astounding.

 

Re: Very interesting, posted on March 18, 1999 at 09:04:21
Bryan F.


 
When I was shopping for speakers I was getting fed up. So I pretty much listened to everything and anything. The goal was finding a speaker that could be powered by a low powered pp or preferably set. I didn't care I just wanted a speaker that could reproduce the frequencies that it was intended to reproduce. I found plenty of speakers that were bass heavy. To cover up the week midrange. Or midbass "rich" to cover up how thin they sounded. Both methods work well until you listen to certain material or bring a test CD with you. So basically I auditioned everything. Hell, even NHT's 2.9 and 3.3. Hey what the hell they were there so.......

95+ % of what I auditioned I either listend to on vacation or at local dealers. However in Chicago one is limited when it comes to tubes or exotic stuff locally. I swear I walked in one place and they bragged about how they hand pick all their equiptment because they listen to mic tests and the equiptment they have tests well to their ears. Interesting as this place only sold ss and BAT. I was confused to say the least. Another place pushed the hell out of Von Schweikert. I sat there for hours not understanding why I didn't like them. The Sonus Faber dealer in this town is a joke. His highest offering are Pass Labs, Revox, Thiel, and Rowland(two of my favorite flavors of ss). However the other 3/4 of his stores are filled with mass fi and used stuff. Also don't expect any good set-ups. Mention tubes and at all three of his stores I thought I had become transparent as their eyes seemed to stare through me. One kid set up the Concertos perfectly for me though. Ahhh......not all bad experiances. It's just that I hate high end stores that act as if they know everything but haven't a clue about tubes. Here there are few places that understand the mighty ones that glow.

Well, with that said and done my father introduced me to one of his clients who owns the Odeon La Traviata. So I auditioned them at his house. Using guess what? Wavelegnth Cardinal XS's and some version of the VPI TNT(no cd source at all). Which I know little about vinyl and nothing at that time. But the sound was impressive. However I must note that the room was about 30 X 30 with cathedral ceilings and it was dedicated to audio alone. With everythng set-up on a diagonal. This guy also introduced me to another guy who owned the No. 30's which were run by a pair of Audio Note Conquests using a CEC TL-1, Levinson 360 and Oracle IV turntable. Let's just say that the No. 30's are funky looking beautiful brother. They also require space and are some of the most relaxed free flowing speakers I have heard. Expensive though! Horns are very hard to describe. As they present such a different window. They are not accurate but it is hard to tell when listening as it is very hard to listen to them 100% analitically. Even then the music they throw tames the savage beast. The only other speaker that I auditioned at someones house was the Brentworth III....but thats an entirely different story!

 

Re: I dissagree in this case..., posted on March 18, 1999 at 09:11:33
Bryan F.


 
But it is more so than that. As true bass response is increased with more control and articulation. However imaging becomes more precise. Mid-bass becomes taughter, the speaker becomes more 3 dimensional and layered.....all because of a little black box. What are the tradeoffs? Well if you minus the black box resolution goes up a small amount. An amount you actully have to listen to a particular part of certain tracks over and over and even then I still wonder if I just want to percieve a difference because the BAM has to have some negative effect right? HEEHEEHEE....hell it makes music more enjoyable so.......

 

good story., posted on March 18, 1999 at 09:58:37
Jack G


 
The selection in my neck of the woods is pretty bad too. Little glass, but one store specializes in tubes, especially SETs(mostly cary). They had a demo, that i had to miss, of the Cary 2A3 amps with the odeon 30 speakers-I heard it was interesting. yes, at $30-40k, they aint cheap.:-( Interesting how newr horn designs use round horns.
Jack

 

2A3 or Vinyl....., posted on March 18, 1999 at 14:33:35
Bryan F.


 
....Jack....I am confused at this point. As I want a 2A3 but I am considering Vinyl also.....decisions decision......you have to see the No. 30's. They are visualy striking.

 

opps, posted on March 18, 1999 at 16:04:39
Keith F


 
Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for info about the Merlins. However, just last night I heard a great combo in a private owners house who is selling a pair of Tannoy monitors with 10" drivers. He had, to my delight, the welborne labs (I live in Denver)laurel 300B monoblocks driving them. This basically blew me away. I was really cool to hear the difference between the sound of the svetlana 300b and the kr 300 b. I will probably buy the tannoys, there are other speakers that I like but at the moment these are the ones I can afford. He may even give me a good deal on the Welborne's.\
Keith
very excited to dump the ss amp/thiels and dive head on into set land

 

Re: 2A3 or Vinyl....., posted on March 19, 1999 at 04:48:57
Jack G


 
You Just bough an amp. A 2A3 amp(even with KR tubes) wont drive your new speakers. If your happy with your speakers and amps(I thought you were), then go for the vinyl instead(assuming you actually ahve some vinyl).
I've seen pics of the #30, but not in person.Deja Vu sells them.
Jack

 

Believe it or Not..., posted on March 19, 1999 at 05:26:56
Bryan F.


 
....but I actually have talked to this guy via e-mail who is using a FI 2A3 with the Merlin VSM SE. He raves at how it drives them perfectly only that volume is limited. Hey in theory 3 watts into 89 db will return you 95 db so who knows. As I have been hearing of people using them with speakers in the low 90's as of late. Like I said believe it or not.

I am happy with my amplifiers. Actually I don't wish to change anything. I would like a new digital front end but with a new format slated for release in the near future I am....waiting. However I feel the urge to buy something new. As I have never been this happy with my system. However I just want and have wanted a 2A3 to toy with.......though I am debating buying a Basis 1400 or maybe stepping into a GyroDec MKIII or maybe just maybe an Oracle V.........basically I am just looking for pure fun at this point........

 

OK, posted on March 19, 1999 at 05:45:03
Jack G


 
I'm toying with the idea of 2A3s myself-curious as to how different they are from 300Bs. I've been told they are darker, and don't have the bass, but we'll see. Doesn't Fi make a 45 based amp too? hehehe.
Jack

 

lolololololol, posted on March 19, 1999 at 10:05:52
Jack G


 
Ah yes, my child-you too have seen the light.....
Jack

 

Re: OK, posted on March 19, 1999 at 11:02:18
Bryan F.


 
If it's low powered I'm sure FI build it!

 

Re: Believe it or Not..., posted on March 19, 1999 at 14:28:50
nataraj


 
>Hey in theory 3 watts into 89 db will return you 95 db so who knows.

Thats only if you sit 1 mtr from the speakers. 3db down every meter away. (though you could add 3 db because of two speakers). In theory. But I've never measured more than 1 volt at speaker terminals !

 

Re: Believe it or Not..., posted on March 19, 1999 at 15:08:03
Bryan F.


 
Sorry I didn't specify 1 watt @ 1 meter!

 

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