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what's your speaker?

171.69.185.212
Posted on March 3, 1999 at 19:00:11
ken m


 

This board is pretty dead. I'll take it to mean that everybody is so deleriously happy with their speakers, that there is no reason to post. So tell us what you have.

I have Joseph Audio RM7si Signatures on lead-filled MG Basik Stands and I'm deleriously happy.

Regards,

-ken

 

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Apogee Centaurus Ribbon Monitors, posted on March 3, 1999 at 19:52:57
Dave VH


 
Smooth, detailed and sweet. Po upgrades planned for speakers in the near future unless we move to a bigger place.

I don't think I've ever heard a bad word about the Joseph Audio line, but they can't be perfect. Good God, man, they have square corners and sharp edges. Doesn't the diffraction at sharp edges cause audible problems? Or the rounded edge speakers just hype?

(The grills on my Apogees are rounded - does that count??

Cheers,

Dave VH

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 3, 1999 at 20:01:57
Oakroot


 
Sonus Faber Electa Amators - great sound and gorgeous cabinetry (even my wife likes the looks of them)though the shape is a bit peculiar.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 3, 1999 at 20:05:50
Edb


 
I have polk RT-12's and I love(d) them, but It is getting close to upgrade-time. (If only I had money).

I got a question for anyone:

Sooner or later I am planning on building a pair of the NHT1259's. I already have an amp for them that is 200$ away from being ready to go. Then comes a crossover. Finally, after that, I will want to upgrade my mains.

I have (somewhat briefly) heard the Paradigm studio100's and I was impressed. What struck me quickly about them was their 'imaging' capabilities. At one point there was yelling in a recording (which i was only slightly farmiliar with) and I thought it was my dealer yelling at me from near the door--scared me actually. So I think paradigm will be a consideration. (although I will obviously expirement with others).

anyway, if I have a pair of subs, I will not need the bass of the 100's. It is going to be crossed over at 80Hz (i don't want to explain why but i have a good reason for this frequency), so I am trying to decide if it would be best to go with the 60's, 80's, or even the 20's. Does anyone have expierence with any of these three and sub(s)? My main concern with the 20's is that they won't be loud enough for my parties etc. They will have the Marantz PM-68 powering them, about 100 watts/8 ohms.

any input is appreciated...although this question is about a year in advance the way my income is going right now. I just thought I would ask to fill the emptiness.

thanks, and happy listening,
Edb

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 3, 1999 at 20:38:04
wheel


 
I feel for you there. A plus of the 80's is the increased sensitivity. Other than that, I think the 60's may be where you're best value is at. I have the same concerns about the 20's as you do. (I bought the monitor 3's instead of the minimonitors for the same reason -tho I was also worried about the minimonitor handeling the power output... regardless, I'm way overdue for an upgrade, but it'll be a long time before that happens.... too bad I was silly and bought a velodyne hgs-12, though the bass is terribly important to me, so...)


Wheel

 

Sonus faber Electa Amator II, posted on March 3, 1999 at 21:07:41
Hyperion


 
Rippling with the sheer power and muscle of a thoroughbred with the grace and balance of a ballerina. Simply, the best of both the Guarneri and the Extrema in one compact package.


 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 3, 1999 at 21:13:03
Smug Man, Mr. M


 
The original Quads, had them for 20 years with no desire to change, -there going great because my wife won't let me play them loud and abusive. I am using a Carver Sunfire True Subwoofer on them, -which is my complaint about my system, which maybe you speaker duds have some answers. Someone in the Vynle Section descibed the few records he had, one being M&K Realtime. I mentioned that M&K Realtime had 2 pipe organ records called "The Power and the Glory", which was used to show off their subwoofers. I have both records but my True Subwoofer can't handle them. The little cube would jump up and down and the cone would over-load, rattling against the baskit frame. Also, when the subwoofer is in the active state to inactive,(about 30 sec.) you could hear a pung-pung, which is annoying if the music goes from loud to soft.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 3, 1999 at 22:06:15
nataraj


 
Martin Logan Aerius. Just got a couple of weeks back. Still to setup properly. Amazing on vocals (and all the audiophile stuff like imaging, soundstage etc ). Already started researching about small powered SETs and efficient speakers ...

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 3, 1999 at 22:08:43
nataraj


 
If you are looking for imaging surely you can't overlook mmgs !?

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 04:40:52
MikeP


 
ProAc Response 2s. I also have a pair of Janis W1 subs which currently are not connected. I'm about convinced I like the sound of the 2s' better without the subs.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 05:31:51
Jack G


 
main system-Galante Buckinghams. reasonably smooth, very efficeint, extremely fast and dynamic-hyper detailed and revealing, and a perfect match for my Wavelegnth cardinals. 1 watt is all I need for *blasting* them.
Bedroom-Gallo solos
waiting in the wings-ESP Bodhrans-very smooth and detailed, but not as good as the galantes. No deep bass-needs a sub
sub-PSB 300i nice match for the ESPs at the moment, sitting in my spare bathroom.
Somewhere burried in storage-Time frame 700s
Jack

 

On a budget?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 06:10:34
Tom S.


 
Magneplanar MMGs. Inexpensive and decent. About as uncolored as you can get for $500. Although I think it was a bad move. I now want to upgrade to larger maggies but I can't allocate funds!

Tom S.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 06:46:47
Chris S.


 
Legacy Classics. IMHO, one of the best do-it-all speakers in it's price range. I've spent many months tweaking these in a medium size (14X16X8) room, and am quite pleased with the results.

OTOH, here in the not-too-distant future, I want to move my system into a smaller (10X13X8) room and will be trying the Joseph Audio RM22si's (I know the Classics won't work here). Then, with the flat 8'ish ohm impedance of the Josephs, and the smaller room dimenstions, I can earnestly explore the world of low-power tube amplification!

 

DIY Copies of Wilson Audio Watt/Puppies, posted on March 4, 1999 at 06:52:29
Thorsten


 

Hi,

Made mine for around 1000 Bucks monetary outlay (all included). Granite style laminate on sides makes them look great. They are the smallst "large sounding" reasonably efficient Speakers I know....

Efficient enough so I can get away (just) with an 300B SE Amplifier.

A bit trickey to set up, but once you have sorted them out - you forget about speakers....


 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 07:07:24
Chris B


 
You might want to check out the Meadowlark Shearwater. In the same price rance, and also tube friendly.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 07:19:08
JohnE


 
Daline 6.1's I still get a rush when I sit back to listen to them. Now, if I can only decide which amp to upgrade to, I'll be content.(for a while)

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 07:50:06
Mike K.


 
Main system - Magnepan 1.4s, which I hope to replace soon with
1.6s. Subsidiary system - Magnepan MMGs. You might say that I
like maggies. I have not found another speaker that provides
the soundstage, coherence, or natural sounding response of
Maggies. Listen to piano or guitar on Magnepans and you will
see what I mean.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 08:02:55
Rod M


 
Sound like you've got more gear that a few hi-end shops I've visited. When are you going to seel some of that stuff?

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 08:13:48
Rod M


 
Vandersteen 3As with a pair of 2w subs for a solid foundation. Not the last word in transparentcy and neutrality, but wonderful warm, musical speakers that I can listen to for hours on end. I really yet to hear their full potential, though I think I've found a new amp that might help me make yet another leap in getting there.

I'm very happy with them, but the upgrade to the new 3A Sig level is tempting me.


 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 08:31:02
Jack G


 
I'll eventually get around to it,why, you interested in something I have? I've considered trading some of it in, but there's nothing I wish to trade for right now. I am selling one of my CD players tho.
Jack

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 08:45:32
Chris S.


 
Thanks for the recommendation. I have considered those, but I have my doubts about how the 1st order crossover would work in the relatively near-field listening arrangement I would have in the small room. I understand that they typically require at least 8-9 feet before they totally integrate, wheras the RM22si's don't need as much distance (because of the infinite-slope crossover). Both seem to be good speakers, but I think that (at least on paper, anyway) the Joseph might be a safer bet for now.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 09:08:06
Big Matt


 
My speakers are CSW Towers although heavily modified. The crossovers now are mounted in outboard enclosures. An additional binding post was added to the speaker (they are three ways) and all the internal wiring was trashed and replaced with Belden 89259. Belden 89259 also connects the crossover to the speaker posts as well. The rewire made a definate improvement and not bad for under $200 in parts. I really want to get rid of these things, but I can't afford to get new speakers. Oh well hopefully my S.E.X. amps on the highs and mids will improve matters when I get them built (should be done by the end of next week!!).

Big Matt

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 09:25:18
Rod M


 
No, no, the wife would shoot me. She's not keen on the new amp idea much less anything else right now.

But which CD player are you going to sell?

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 09:33:37
Jack G


 
I'm selling the rotel RCD-990.
Jack

 

DIY Dynaudio's, posted on March 4, 1999 at 09:48:34
Clayton Oxendine


 
Two 17W75's, and D-260 Esotec tweeter, in a 4 cu.ft.,sealed, 90 lb., floor standing monster. Don't need sub with most music I listen to. Must have got the beaffle step right because I don't lose bass when they are pulled away from room bounderies. They suit my taste and need lots of juice. Am currently looking for a amp.

Clayton

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 09:50:41
Thomas


 
Meadowlark Audio Kestrel (Hot Rod modification). Have in storage Vandersteen 2Ce and Martin Logan Aerius. Looking to upgrade to Meadowlark Herons when funds are available.

 

Ima Magnaplanarlistener also, posted on March 4, 1999 at 09:51:27
Moses


 
.

 

Re: DIY Copies of Wilson Audio Watt/Puppies, posted on March 4, 1999 at 09:55:06
wheel


 
Where did you find the plans? They look great... I'd be interested in finding out more about this... Please email me.

Thanks,
Wheel

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 09:55:21
Gangsta'


 
Hello All!!

I hope that I am welcome here... it seems we have some sort of secret club going on or something.... I don't post much, but I thoroughly enjoy reading everyone's posts (except the endless flamefests over on AR)...

I currently don't have speakers in my main system... so why would I post here then??? Well as I write this, I am tracking the arrival of 2 Newform 30 inch ribbon tweets and 2 scanspeak 15w/8530 revelator midbasses via UPS... I am employing the services of clayton oxendine to help with crossover and some enclosure ideas I have... inexpensive audio nirvana (I hope!!)that should mesh well with my other hand-crafted, homemade electronics...

I do have energy c-2's on 100 pound concrete stands in the bedroom for late night falling asleep listening... certainly not high end, but not bad for $260....

shane

 

Dunlavy SC-III (nt), posted on March 4, 1999 at 10:01:29
Stephen


 
.

 

Welcome ..., posted on March 4, 1999 at 10:03:03
Stephen


 
... I'd be very interested in hearing about
the Newforms once you get them set up. Enjoy!

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 10:22:58
Steve


 
Living room system: Thiel CS3.6. Bedroom system: Vandersteen 2Ci.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 10:31:37
SFDude


 
Audes 75AC-105 mini-monitors on Lovan Affiniti stands, aquarium gravel filled. Very decent sound for a cheap pair of minimonitors.

Will be upgrading within the year, depending on the budget for a wedding I have planned for my fiancee and I. If we don't skimp, there may be some cash leftover for a pair of B&W's (800 Matrix series or Nautilus) or Dynaudio Contour series (the 1.8MKII should be priced just right as they may be introducing a replacement line for their Contour series).

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 10:59:58
Rod M


 
Does edp know? It's a pretty good player isn't it?

 

Sonus Faber, posted on March 4, 1999 at 11:21:43
Jim Kain


 
Sonus Faber Concertos: they are very very musical. Solid, well balanced sound, natural imaging, wide (but not too wide) soundstage. I'm continually amazed at just how sweet everything sounds with them. No deep bass, but the bass that is there is punchy, tight and timbrally on target. I supplement the bass with a passive sub: it doesn't match the sound quality but it fills in the bottom end without messing anything else up.

In another system I have Vandersteen 2c: laid back presentation, but airy and musical. Easy to listen to speakers. Better bass extension than the concertos, so the whole dynamic range is a little more coherent, but imaging is not as good (as in full bodied 3d type images).

I'm looking into some high efficiency speakers to work with the Decware Zen amp (5-10 wpc): can't afford anything like Jack g's Buckinghams, but I might try some Lowthers if I can get a listen somewhere.

enjoy

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 11:22:45
Jack G


 
Its already commited. I have a Levinson #39 he can have.:-)
Jack

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 11:23:19
Ears


 
NHT SuperOnes & Atlantic Tech 162 PBM sub. Sounds good in my room at the levels I listen at, but I'm starting to feel the lure of DIY.

 

Re: Dunlavy SC-Series, posted on March 4, 1999 at 11:25:34
Dave VH


 
Stephen - you may remember that I auditioned a pair of SC-1's that I liked very much except for a certain "harshness" that gave a real bite to reedy sounds, but was too raspy on voice. On the other hand, the SC-I's sounded much smoother when driven by an Arcam CD and C-J integrated in the dealers sound room, which had lots of other speakers and sound-absorbant carpets and panels. Is you listening room well padded? (If it is, it would be a perfect padded cell for the asylum!)

During my speaker auditions, I used my Marantz 67SE to feed the Jolida SJ202 that I had for a while. Both the B&W 601's and Apogee Ribbon Monitors sounded much smoother. It would be interesting to try them again, just for fun, with the Alpha/Delta combo feeding my Bryston B60R.

I have a feeling that the synergy aspect that we often discuss is a key here, and that room, speakers, amp, source, DAC do interact more than some give credit for. It's always an interesting dilemma deciding where to start when folks upgrade to better gear, but it seems that the first higher-quality component will dictate the direction other additions take.

Dave VH

 

Question, posted on March 4, 1999 at 11:26:43
Jim Kain


 
How do the EAs manage bass? Do they do it alone or do you use a sub?

By the way, I've got the SF concertos (walnut) and I agree that the spousal approval factor is high. Without it I might not have been able to justify the cost. (It could be more difficult though to get her to go for the upgrade to EA with their belly bulge--tough sell).

Enjoy,
Jim

 

perfect speakers, posted on March 4, 1999 at 11:33:33
ken m


 

Hi Dave,

No, they are not perfect. Since I didn't compare the Joseph's to non-box speakers, I can't tell you if there is a problem with the shape. The strengths of the RM7si's:

1. Not too picky about setup.
2. Don't have to sit in "sweet spot" to enjoy

Both of these were important as we have a combined sound room/living room and I can't tweak locations of speakers and furniture based only on the sound.

3. Small size gives large wife-approval factor
4. Nice, neutral sound within their limits
5. Great staging, imaging
6. Very fast and dynamic

Weaknesses:

1. Only goes down to 42HZ. Sounds like there must be usable bass below that but forget low notes from organ pedals, etc.

2. Don't play extremely loud (possibly the 25 watt amplifier has something to do with this). I listen mostly to Chamber music, jazz, classic rock and rarely am I disappointed in the loudness level. Usually my wife is asking me to turn it down anyway.

I probably didn't do enough comparison when I was shopping. I compared them against Aerial 5's, Totem (Model 1 I believe), Vandersteen 2CE's, some Snells, etc. Recently, at a new local dealer's, we compared them against the B+W $1.1K bookshelf speakers.

So far, I haven't regretted by choice at all. Nothing I've listened to sounds quite as musical and "real" to me as the Joseph's. I did listen to some Venture speakers ($28K) hooked up to $100K of equipment at a dealer about 60 miles from me. That setup sounded great but ...

I have an Anthem Int-1 integrated amp. It and the Joseph's seem to be made for each other.

Unfortunately, I've never heard Apogee's (and now probably never will unless I meet someone who has them). It sounds like they are great speakers. If you are interested in hearing Joseph Audio speakers, I got mine from the Analog Room in San Jose, which I believe is close to you. I'm in Santa Barbara.

Regards,

-ken

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 11:39:59
Rod M


 
Actually I was surprised you didn't mention that one as much as you seem to distain it. You mean you'll just let him take it off your hands for free to save you from the risk of hearing it?

 

Hehehe, posted on March 4, 1999 at 11:53:29
Jack G


 
Its in my bedroom, hooked up to my Jadis, that needs to be fixed-never sounded better.:-)
Jack

 

DIY and a whole bunch of parts, posted on March 4, 1999 at 12:00:06
Edp


 
Some junk I threw together, that despite my great efforts, perform beautifully.

I also have some garaged units, although many have found there way into friends setups in the last year. (4 set of 2 ways and 1 set of 3ways for FREE, what am I thinking)

 

Re: Dunlavy SC-Series, posted on March 4, 1999 at 12:29:38
Stephen


 
The room is not well-padded.
Curtains on windows and strategically placed plants and "art".
I am currently exploring a number of room treatments
from dots to lenses.

The tubed DAC and amplification in my
system are a good balance to the
"accuracy" of the Dunlavi. They were
real ear-bleeders with the Sunfire.

 

Dynaudio Contour 1.8MKII's nt., posted on March 4, 1999 at 12:50:12
GTF


 
.

 

B&W cdm7se's -mains-, posted on March 4, 1999 at 13:34:31
MiKe


 
And love them too:)

 

Merlin VSM SE..., posted on March 4, 1999 at 14:23:12
Bryan F.


 
...in optional Ice Black Blue finish. I am asking myself if I could ever wish for anything more but they are young and are still burning in so....

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 15:13:11
Michael Malits


 
Ensemble Reference minimonitors on Ensemble Landmark stands - exceptionally revealing, transparent, fast and musical with most
trustful midband i ever heard-i think the most nearest thing to electrostatics+serious dynamics(Reference Gold is even better).
Two REL Storm subs-awesome speed and extension and remarkably smooth
integration with monitors:worth every penny.
System put all sources and amplification under the audio microscope.

 

Re: Question, posted on March 4, 1999 at 16:43:49
Oakroot


 
I'm not sure how the new EA II's manage bass as I have yet to listen to them. The older versions (which I own) mange bass exceedingly well. they do not go to the fundemental tones of the organ pipe (nor would I wnat them to with only a 7" woofer)- but they do have useable in room extension down to about 40Hz. The bass is nicely delineated, has good taughtness and bloom, yet will break up if pusched over a particualr spl. This is not really a weakness as all other mini monitors do the same. They are great within their limits but once that limit is reached - the performance falls off rapidly. What's nice is the Electa Amators limit is lower than many other mini monitors. I do not use a subwoofer - though I have thought about a Muse or REL. The room is 13' x 21' so I'm not convinced a sub is needed for music.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 16:47:11
Joe S


 
Von Schweikert VR6s. I've been living with them for a little over a year now (a bought a pair from the 1st production run that was delivered in the US) and I can only say that they are amazing.

I was a long time planar / electrostat freak - Maggie MG1s, Acoustat 1+1s, Martin Logan CLS2s, 2As, 2Zs before I switched. I'd always been hung up on the transparency and openness of the stats, the Martin Logans in particular. Box speakers just never turned me on because they sounded, well, boxy. But after hearing the VR4s & 4.5s at my dealer and hearing the 4.5s at home I started to rethink what dynamics could do. When the 6s came out I took the leap and I'm still getting the full measure of them.

They are easily the least colored speakers I've ever heard, because every time I try to pin down their sound I swap cones or tubes and find the trait I was attributing to the speakers goes away. Given that I can say a few general traits:

First, these guys are TRANPARENT. Sorry about shouting, but I really have to say they make my old beloved CLS sound llike a muddled, veiled mess. This is what I find so surprising given that transparency was what I always regarded as the CLSs greatest strength.

Second, they throw a huge soundstage. This was what I always regarded as the domain of those huge wavefront planars & 'stats, but again the VR6s lay lie to that old bias. These things throw a soundstage the equal in height, greater in width and much deeper than any I ever obtained from my prior speakers. And that soundstage is filled with air - not the dry cardboard cut out analytic soundfield I hear from some dynamics, but one thats vibrant & real. Interestingly, while the speaker comes with a rear ambience driver (identical to the forward firing inverted dome unit) I find them completely unnecessary to achieve this soundstge size and sense of air, in fact I have them completely turned off (they are level adjustable).

Third, they are quite broad band in frequency response. The only issue can be getting these guys to couple with some rooms in the low end. My room has a suspended wooden floor & wood frame walls so it doesnt do the best job in the world containig bass notes, so positioning and EQing (with a Z Systems RDP1 overcame some big variations in LF response)was critical to get the best out of them. Interestingly the VR4.5s I had in the room before them were easier to integrate, but those speakers are also a bit fuller and less focused in the low end.

Problems - Well the bass modules can be tough for tubes to drive. Most surprising given an impedence in the 4 ohm & up range and a 95dB sensitivity. Result was a pair of LAMMs. I cant help but feel that some tubes must work with them, but they ate my VTL MB250s alive - not in terms of volume, but in terms of bloom, control and LF extension. And the downside of transparency? It dont hide the warts. Not an analytic balance, just a very revealing transducer that lets you hear every tube swap, power cord substitution, cone, seismic sink inflation pressure variation as a magical / worthless kind of event. Result, when it all locks in its magical, but when its just a little bit off,it might as well be a mile. Now, dont get me wrong, once its locked in it stays there, but the journey can be a challenge. Only tweakers dedicated to getting the most out of them need apply.


Well thats the analytic cut, what really makes these guys addictive is the ability to put performers, with the air and room largely intact right in your listening room with you with body & dimensionality (card board cut outs need not apply). I find a high degree of connection to the original event combined with a lot of information - but rather than focusing on details it results in a greater syuspension of disbelief. Lots of late nights lost in the music kind of thing, if you know what I mean. I spent alot of nights the same way with my old rig, but the quantum leap these guys represent is still hard for me to believe a year after I bought them...


Joe

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 18:34:13
mikem


 
Joe.. great post! I have the VR-4's and I think they are wonderful! I have upgraded my amp, pre-amp, front-end, cables... but I have not touched the speakers.. I have yet to hit the limits of what these speakers can do.
I have the BAT VK5i and a Llano 200-S amp. The Llano works great with the VR's.. Right now.. I don't want to change a thing.. I am finally setup to where I am just enjoying the music..
Have you thought about bi-amping your 6's with SS on the bass mod and tubes on the MT's ? Sounds like you have a great sounding setup!
mike

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 18:54:34
Dave B


 
Joe,

Thanks for the description of your VR6's. I haven't heard these yet and so , your post was valuable. I guess I won't mention I have a pair of those "messy" M-L reQUESTs ;-)

I've decided to build a second system this year, I'll leave the other system alone and do a tube amplification/dynamic speaker combination, probably with a vinyl frontend. I auditioned the Dunlavy SC-IVa's for this purpose but your post was great input.

I'm glad you're enjoying the rdp-1's usefulness.

Dave


 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 20:12:10
Chrisp


 
I have the Von Schweikert VR4s which have great sound and were a great buy at the time the Gen IIs came out. One problem with the speaker is I get alot of flak the realestate it absorbs in the living room.

 

Re: Merlin VSM SE..., posted on March 4, 1999 at 20:17:19
Chrisp


 
I auditioned these recently because I was thinking about a smaller footprint speaker (tired of hearing complaints about the size and look of the VS VR4s). I was extremely impressed with these speakers, the speed, transparancy and the smoothest treble I've heard. I wonder why you don't hear much about these speakers outside of SoundStage?

 

Re: Merlin VSM SE..., posted on March 4, 1999 at 22:22:13
Bryan F.


 
~~~Actually they have recieved good prees outside of Soundstage. With something like eight out of ten reviewers(or something like that/website isn't up to date) actually purchasing the speakers. Merlin sells about 80% of his speakers outside the US. One needs to realize that they are much more expensive overseas. I think that speaks for itself.
~~~As far as a small footprint....well yes they need to be no more than 7 ft. apart however they throw a soundstage that extends past the outside of the speaker. It is also extremly deep and layered to the max. Also I won't even make the comparison to the Von Schweikerts. As I have spent many hours with the VR4, VR4.5, and VR6. They present music visually but I have reached a point where visual isn't enough for me. IMHO they are both totally different speakers for totally different people.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 4, 1999 at 23:14:26
Audiophilander


 
Gallo Nucleus Solos with a Velodyne ULD-18B chaser (shaken not stirred) ;-)

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 5, 1999 at 00:02:50
Jim Willis


 
biro L/1s on 60 cm marble stands.

A pair of magnepan Tympani I(u)s in the attic.

 

want to sell the 2CEs', posted on March 5, 1999 at 07:28:10
ML


 
where do yo live?

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 5, 1999 at 07:34:02
Dave Derrick


 

Merlin VSM-SEs. Currently used without the BAM.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 5, 1999 at 08:21:15
Bryan F.


 
Why without the BAM? I find that they sound a lot better with the BAM. Not because of the lower bass. But because of a more defined, deeper, more layered soundstage, and tighter midbass. However the BAM does need to be used in the right spot. Preferably between the source and preamp. I knew of two other people not using the BAM and with a little experimentation they finallly did go back to the BAM.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 5, 1999 at 09:09:05
Dave Derrick


 
It's a matter of "systems clutter." I go DAC direct to amp, and have an SCE HRS, a Camelot Dragon, and a number of sets of Tritium Electronics Triphazers at different sites in the chain. While the BAM improves things noticably when it is the only addition to the system, it actually detracts in some ways when everything else is in place (and a number of the items do some of the things that the BAM by itself does).

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 5, 1999 at 09:21:09
Bryan F.


 
~~~I thought there had to be another reason. Happy Listening!

 

Jim....., posted on March 5, 1999 at 09:23:50
Clayton Oxendine


 
Do you happen to know who makes the tweeter amd mid-woofer in these? Just curious. I bet it sounds pretty good, huh? Do you notice any port noise sinse the port is located on he front. Sorry for all the questions, but I would think this speaker has potential. What I am curious if the tweeter is made by Hi-Vi Research. Thanks.

Clayton

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 5, 1999 at 09:52:58
Ted Z


 
"Gallo Nucleus Solos with a Velodyne ULD-18B chaser (shaken not stirred) ;-)"

You mean "mis-matched not intergrated"

 

Re: Dunno......., posted on March 5, 1999 at 10:20:57
Jim Willis


 
I've talked to Mithat a couple of times, and he is just not inclined to talk about who OEMs the stuff, other than to say it's Danish and Norwegian. The tweeter is a 25 mm alu dome and the mid/woofer is 170 mm mineral-loaded polymer. I think Seas and ScanSpeak, but which ones exactly??? If I were more industrious it would be easy enough to open them up.

What is pretty clear is that he's done a nice job of matching parts and XO, and really done well in damping the enclosure. I cannot hear the transition from mid/woof to tweeter. It's really seamless. And the enclosure is dead quiet. I can rap it pretty hard with my knuckles and just barely hear it. The finish is real wood, but probably in the "good enough" category. Not exactly beautiful speakers.

I cannot hear the port at all.

Bass is tight and clean down to about (but not quite) 40. Highs are very smooth. Pretty detailed, but not annoyingly so. Mid is very engaging. A bit warm overall. They image really really well (better than my old maggies for certain). As I have them in a small room, I can't quite tell about the size of the soundstage - at least not fairly. Very musical.

It was sort of funny - I was looking for something small, light and cheap that I could have sent to me here in France until I return to the US and can fix my maggies. I'm in the sticks outside Geneva and there's no audiophilia to speak of. Plus there's a bloody 20.6% tax, so what I could find locally was worse thak Best Buy quality at emporium prices. The biros fit the bill, and I found that I like them A LOT more than magnepans.

I file this under "Even a blind pig finds a truffle now and again."


 

Glad you like them. (nt), posted on March 5, 1999 at 10:36:24
Clayton Oxendine


 
...

 

Re: want to sell the 2CEs', posted on March 5, 1999 at 11:16:15
Thomas


 
My brother has them in Dallas now but they're not being used. I'm in San Diego. I'll check with him to see if he wants to sell them.

Thomas

 

VMPS Tower II SE Great for the $$$, posted on March 5, 1999 at 13:11:47
Mark


 

,

 

Also Angstrom Omega 28, posted on March 5, 1999 at 13:13:14
Mark


 
New company, great speaker for $800

 

my mess..., posted on March 5, 1999 at 13:44:07
Dave B


 
I have:

Martin-Logan reQUESTs running full range with a Velodyne FSR-15 actively crossed at 35Hz and below on the music system.

NHT 2.5i's, NHT AC-1 for the center and Dynaudio mini monitors for rears on the HT system in a separate room.

Looking for another pair for a tube based system.

 

Re: Dunno......., posted on March 5, 1999 at 13:57:56
Edp


 
The L/2 is strictly Vifa, both tweeter and midbass.

The L/1 woofer appears to be the infamous Vifa P17WJ. The tweeter appears to be a SEAS special design. When at WCES, SEAS had a large number of custom drivers to show how well/varied they can supply to manufacturers. Could have sworn that one was the biro unit, but hey I've only seen pictures so could be very wrong!

 

Don't hold back, tell us about the Ultra Hi-Fi, posted on March 5, 1999 at 14:06:22
Edp


 
Why so modest, you know the ones:

Pure signal integrity due to no xover components in the signal path. Time coherent, time aligned, phase coherency and single point source wavefront.
Fully active, with dedicated amplification that was customised to mate as a whole, and not mearly the sum of parts. Copolimer enclosures that do not have the sonic signiture of most speakers which are made from wood or "wood byproducts". Ergonmically designed to not only integrate into the living environment but optimised for the drive units specifically designed and manufactured enclosures. With several fine finishes available that should help integrate the units into ones living space.

 

About joseph 7si, posted on March 5, 1999 at 14:59:52
nataraj


 
I and another audiophile friend (the guy you bought bryston from, I think) here auditioned joseph 7si in my place and his. In his place it was paired with an ss amp (I think acurus), and in my place with golden tube se-40. All the pieces were okay individually, great detail, good imaging, texture etc etc ... but somehow the whole didn't sound like music (too dry, too much detail ?). We were dissappointed ... esp. after hearing many comments that they can pull you away from 'stats. We had to conclude in my setup, nht 1.5 + sw2 sub was better. He was trying them because his room was too small for aerius, which he had for sometime.

 

Re: Merlin VSM SE..., posted on March 5, 1999 at 16:35:06
Dave Derrick


 

Something you might want to try once the speakers break-in...You might try combinations of which terminals you do or do not use the RC networks on. I've ended up using RCs on the upper terminals but not the lower (this may be in part due to the fact that I run Triphazers by jumpers to the lower terminals, but is may still prove worthwhile to experiment with...Martin DeWulf was doing something similar at one time, and he may or may not have heard it from Bobby).

 

Re: CLS IIZs, posted on March 5, 1999 at 16:44:01
Todd A.


 
But I'm still waiting on those subs.......

Be well,
Todd

 

Re: Question, posted on March 5, 1999 at 19:23:40
Hyperion


 
The EA 2 easily betters even the Extrema in the bass, especially in terms of speed, articulation, resolution, dynamic contrasts and integration to the mid/high. And with a freq extension down to 35Hz, it goes almost as deep if not as loud as the big mojo. That is why the Extrema had to be discontinued, among other things. :-)


 

Maggie MMG :~) (nt), posted on March 5, 1999 at 19:44:09
Jake


 
Maggie MMG :~)

 

Au contraire. They "Bond" quite nicely. ;-) [nt], posted on March 5, 1999 at 20:20:55
Audiophilander


 
(nt)

 

Re: Question, posted on March 5, 1999 at 21:40:41
Oakroot


 
The bass is the only part of the extrema that I did not find appealing at the price range - it really went no lower than the Amator with any kind of authority. One of these days I'm going to have to find some EA II's and take a good long listen. I have my doubts that inferior drivers of the new version could outperform the world class drivers in the older version - especially since I hear the crossover is a conventional passive unit. But it is also true that great ingrediants don't equal great food - its the chef that makes or breaks the cusine. Fortunately we both have the same Chef! :-)

 

Re: Dunno......., posted on March 6, 1999 at 00:44:54
Jim Willis


 
Edp - It could well be the Vifa mid/bass, looks the same externally w/butyl surround. You say "infamous" - why so?

Given the huge variety of alu tweeters from Seas, I couldn't begin to guess which it could be. But since it is externally mounted a la B&W, it could easily be a custom mfg.

Anyhow, I don't tend to neurose about which exact parts manufacturers use. As long as the aggregate sounds good (which it does in this case). Speaker design seems to be a bit more than just selecting drivers. But you would know this better than I. I only built my own speakers once - 3 way using 3/4" plywood, cheap drivers and a Radio Shack XO. They sounded pretty bad, so I decided to leave the speaker construction business to those with better talent for it.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 6, 1999 at 07:53:59
Todd A.


 
As the owner of what you used to have (CLS IIZ) I am of course intrigued by your comments. Still, as the VR-6s are three times the price they're well beyond my means. To what do you attribute the ability of the VR-6s to produce that marvelous depth of soundstage ? It would seem illogical to credit the drivers themselves, high quality though they undoubtedly are, so that would seem to indicate some kind of wizardry in the crossover. How about an update on the technology that you credit for the ability of these speakers to produce the holy grail of both transparency and dynamics, two characteristics that were seemingly mutually exclusive up until now ?

Be well,

Todd

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 6, 1999 at 08:20:34
J.P.


 
I still have my original Quads in my "Serious Listening Room" -this time with Carver's Sunfire True Subwoofer. I have Spendor SP-100's in my third floor studio/ballroom.

 

Re: Question, posted on March 6, 1999 at 09:59:53
Hyperion


 
I used to love the Dynaudio Esotar tweeter but its time is clearly over. Although still impressive (the best implementation so far is a toss-up between the Dynaudio Confidence 5 and the Guarneri I think), it is becoming clear that state of the art tweeter of the new millenia doesnt need sonically deleterious ferrofluid damping.

I dont find the woofer of the EA or Extrema (especially that KEF driver!) any special aside from the impressively huge magnets and voice coils. And as far as woofers are concerned, I am more convinced that the diaphragm material is more important than the magnets or voice coils. (otherwise I would adore Dynaudio speakers whose drivers probably have the most massive magnets and ultra heavy duty voice coils) And paper and doped paper is a much better (simply because its lighter) material than plastic or metal.


 

Re: Question, posted on March 6, 1999 at 11:19:53
Oakroot


 
Completely disagree - ferrofluid can have deletrious effects, but it is in the design of the tweeter where these are found - and therefore can be removed by better design - hence the Esotar. The Esotar's day is not even close to over from a sonic perspective - but its cost makes it relatively unusable for manufacturers who want to keep prices down. I think this has more to do with why tweeter design is changing for the new millinea than any sonic qualities of the newer tweeters. As we both know - quality costs money. There are a few ribbon tweeters that I like better, and a ceramic concave dome or two that I think are quite good, but I do not like metal domes due to the ringing hashy sound they have, and most soft domes (with a few notable exceptions such as the little silk unit in Sonus Fabers current lineup) do not have the extended frequency response I think is required to hit the harmonic overtomes that we sense more than hear.

I think you may be in error on the brand of woofer in the EA - it is not a Dynaudio (though it was patented by the same engineer who designed the Dynaudio lines). Skannig (sp?)is to Dynaudio what Ferarri is to Volkswagon. I believe the Guanari uses the same woofer as the EA, though I may be wrong. Remember many manufacturers went to other cone material compounds because of the poor stiffness and hence breakups associated with doped paper, but again they can be very very sucessful when properly utilized.

The KEF B-139 is a good bass auxillary driver, but was not utilized properly (crossed over too high in most speakers). Other than that I agree that it had many shortcomings. Oddly enough it did work well in a TL type enclosure - go figure.

I'm just glad we both have a great chef. :-)

 

Have you considered the Eminent Technology LFT-VIIIA's, posted on March 6, 1999 at 22:48:41
David Spear


 
I have owned two pairs of Maggies, the MG-2A's [?] about 20 years ago and the SMGa's up to a year ago. I considered myself a Maggie fan for life, but then ended up absolutely falling in love with the Eminent Technology LFT-VIIIA's. Same amazingly coherent and transparent sound as the Maggies, but deep, solid bass to 25 Hz (dynamic woofer, but with a seamless transition to the panels), better dynamics and "snap" (push-pull magnet array), and more air (although I haven't heard the later Maggies with the quasi-ribbon or ribbon tweeters, which I'm sure are a major improvement over the old planar-magnetic tweeters). You might want to check them out. Nowhere near as austerely beautiful as the Maggies, though, and even less efficient.

 

Re: Question, posted on March 6, 1999 at 23:32:47
Hyperion


 
The problem with Esotar is that it is an extremely quirky tweeter, that needs heavy handed impedance equalization (meaning complex crossovers, and not to mention, OCOS-centric characteristics) before it sounds right - like in the case of the Confidence 5 and the Guarneri. Otherwise, the result is hifi treble.

The EA and Extrema woofer is indeed made by Skaanig, and its not Dynaudio (Skaanig, the person used to work for, and was one of the founders of Dynaudio though) but the magnet and voicecoil structures are uncanningly similar (er huge ...) and there is a big likelyhood that it is Dynaudio who manufactures the drivers on OEM basis for Skaanig ...

The Guarneri uses SEAS polypropylene woofer - but it is much thinner (and milled so that it will be even lighter), lightly damped and smaller (and much much lighter) than the the heavily damped PP cones of the Skaanig drivers.

If you have noticed, there is a big philosophy change in Sonus faber just before the Guarneri. The order of the day, at the time of the Extrema and EA was to make ultra heavy duty drivers for use with welding class solid state amplification. It was after all, the heyday of macho Krell, Spectral (the Sf reference at that time) and Levinson amplifiers. All that huge motor structures and heavy duty diaphragm materials are all designed so that the speakers can take loads of current without burning up. Certainly, audiophiles with Krell amplifiers obviously feel safer to buy speakers that will not be torched by their amplifiers. The price to pay was of course, early Sonus fabers are extremely choosy when it comes to amplifiers. Hence was born the myth that all Sonus fabers are hard to drive.

The newer Sonus fabers, like the Amati Homage for instance (a pair is btw in the shores but still held up in the customs) are made with different purpose in mind. The drivers and crossovers are designed not for maximum abuse anymore, nor for best fit with the biggest amplifiers, but for best fit with a much wider range of electronics. An extremely wise decision if you ask me. Who the hell really listens at home at 110 dB SPL anyway? And just how many audiophiles really own, or wanna own 300Wpc ss AC sucking dreadnoughts? And what better way to expand the Sonus faber fan coverage, than to invite the growing population of tubeheads? ... :-)

Also, Franco Serblin probably picked up a few important tricks along the way like ...

Bass control is best designed inherently into the speaker, i.e. the speaker should not look for a solid state dreadnought bass-grip to sound properly. (this was probably the slight oversight with the Extrema, EA, Electa, etc w/c were designed with Spectral electronics in-house. Naturally, the basses came out slightly underdamped probably because it resulted into the best bass balance with the lean sounding Spectrals! :-)) The overdamped bass alignment of the Concertino, Concerto, Concerto GP, EA II, Signum, and Amati Homage is undoubtedly the result of use of wider range of design reference electronics, especially the modestly powered Sonus faber Musica.


 

Re: Sonus faber Electa Amator II, posted on March 6, 1999 at 23:40:31
Vijay


 
What amp, cables interconnects etc are you using ? I am building up a new system and currently running in my EA II with an Onkyo 939. Last week I tried a tube amp, Antique Sound Lab A1003. I wanted to experience the tube sound and a dealer loaned this amp to me for a week. I quite like the sound. I am now trying out a VTL 120watts amp. Since I do not have a preamp I connected my Onkyo 7911 cdp directly to the amp. It has a bloated sound. Admittedly it should sound better if connected to a good preamp. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks

 

Re: Question, posted on March 7, 1999 at 01:05:59
Oakroot


 
We'll have to agree to disagree about the tweeter and high end performance of the Esotar.

I did notice the philosophical change in Sonus Faber - what I find hard to fathom is why such a large difference in character of teh speakers Concertino and Grande piano are sonic cousins but the Concerto is clearly of another heritage. Of course this was true of his older line as well - now that I think back to their sonic character.

I think you've pegged the bass absoluetly right on these spekaers - old and new. Spectral always had good control of the bottom (though lean they were) - while tube gear often gives up some of that control. It makes sense what SF has done - if they intended their market for tubeheads - but if not I guress thats why the made the Concerto (that sounds reasonbly good with about any competent amplification design).

Some day I may mono out my Classe' DR-9 and have 400 wpc dreadnoughts - I think your right in that my EA's do better on a solid state diet - if I were to go tube it would have to be an awful beefy amp to do them justice.
As we both know - they are fussy.

 

DIY, posted on March 7, 1999 at 03:03:23
DonK


 
Audax HM210GO woofer with a Morel MDT33 tweeter in a slanted ("phase coherent") cabinet and a 1st order crossover. Also, a Sunfire true sub.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 7, 1999 at 08:10:18
Allan


 
MB Quart 350S. Purchased in '92 ($1100.00/pr) in the days when Quart made 'real' speakers. Phenomenal imaging and the only thing that keeps the soundstage from being any larger is the size of my living/sound room. Ability to play subtle detail at low volume is among the best I've ever heard. They're a real sweetheart! One really interesting aspect is that image and soundstage doesn't change in the vertical axis - standing, sitting - it's all the same. Supplemented bass with NHT SW2Pi sub woofer. I'm looking at some Maggie 1.6's but I'm afraid they may not work in my relatively small room. No problem...I'm very happy with the Quarts.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 7, 1999 at 08:30:58
Rich


 

Genesis Vs, Apogee Divas, Martin Logan reQuests, Dunlavy SC-IVs, and NHT Super Zeros.

Have owned Apogee Calipers, Acoustat 1100s, Alison, Advent and even Bose as a teenager.

 

Re: Sonus faber Electa Amator II, posted on March 7, 1999 at 09:04:46
Hyperion


 
I use a conrad-johnson Premier 11a power amp, and a passive line stage attenuator as preamp, the FT Audio LW-1. Interconnects are Audio Note AN-Vz, and speaker cables are AN-SPz.

I would recommend a pair of CJ Premier 12 monoblocks and CJ Premier 16LS line stage preamp for use with the EA 2.

 

Re: Sonus faber Electa Amator II, posted on March 7, 1999 at 09:06:31
Hyperion


 
I use a conrad-johnson Premier 11a power amp, and a passive line stage attenuator as preamp, the FT Audio LW-1. Interconnects are Audio Note AN-Vz, and speaker cables are AN-SPz.

I would recommend a pair of CJ Premier 12 monoblocks and CJ Premier 16LS line stage preamp for use with the EA 2.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 7, 1999 at 10:45:19
Bryan F.


 
~~~It's the whole design that makes a speaker work. VR6's while not my favorite do excel in an "everwhere" soundstage. Which in my estimation is due to not only the crossovers, but the arrangement of the drivers and rear ambiant tweeters(this has a lot to do with depth of the soundstage). Along with the time alignment of the drivers(on the front of the baffle) and the design of each enclosure to cut down on diffraction and isolate from resonances. So in my estimation it is the sum that equals the whole.

 

Re: what's your speaker?, posted on March 7, 1999 at 11:16:48
Joe S


 
I really have no idea. I think Bryans comments are probably as close to the truth as any EXCEPT regarding the depth attributable to the rear firing tweeter. I keep mine turned off completely and get a huge air filled soundstage.

JOe

 

Interesting!, posted on March 7, 1999 at 11:59:55
Bryan F.


 
~~~Interesting because I spent many hours with the VR6 and found that the rear firing tweeter did add to the depth of the soundstage and especially in how layered it was. However it only added to the depth when approx. 6-10ft. away from the back wall. However(yes another however) the rear tweeter did add to a more layered soundstage when 2-3 ft. from the back wall but there also was some time delay and reflection problems due to the closeness of the back wall and room. Thus it did sound better off when confined and space was limited.

 

Re: Merlin VSM SE..., posted on March 7, 1999 at 13:40:46
Oakroot


 
I have heard these on a couple of occasions and have been very impressed by them. The high end had some familiar qualities to it - don't they use the Esotar tweeter? If so - I know why I liked them! I like my SF Electa Amators (originals), the Audio Physic Virgo, and your Merlins - all of which I could easily live with. Cheers!

 

Yep!, posted on March 7, 1999 at 14:20:52
Bryan F.


 
~~~They use the Esotar and implement it extremly well. As do the Electa Amators(original ones that is). Unlike the Eggleston's as I mentioned above(in Amati thread) that prove how even one of the best tweeters can be made to sound horrible. Offering little of it's known qualities. As the Eggleston's are not only bright like metal domes but also have a sheen about them and lack any kind of smoothness. Where as the Esotar, when implemented correctly should be very smooth, detailed, resolved, not have any sheen, and brightness (unless material calls for brightness). This is my favorite Dome. I like it even better than the Scanspeak Revelator when used properly.

 

Yep, posted on March 7, 1999 at 17:09:41
ken m


 

This is why auditioning means listening in your home, with your system, with your ears and with your brain. Both system synergy and personal taste play huge roll in what sounds musical.

Regards,

-ken

 

Re: Question, posted on March 7, 1999 at 20:21:07
Hyperion


 
Well yes, the Concertino and Concerto GP sound more alike than the Concerto, but the Concerto is still unmistakably a Sonus faber speaker, and still sound closer to the two Concert series speakers than any other Sonus fabers. In fact, all three have the same soft lush n rich midband, except that the Concerto has more of the upper midrange warmth (and the EA II has this as well) that makes it superior to the two siblings when it comes to female vocals. Plus its softer and flatter treble makes it more laidback and delicate sounding than the two livelier and more forward sounding siblings. But then the Concerto is still quite a lively speaker in absolute terms. I even know some folks who complained how it sounds too fast and too frenetic, or how the highs sound too crisp n brash. I wonder how they would have reacted to the Concertino hehehe ...

So the variations are there but is not as a big as say, the difference between the Electa and the Electa Amator - which are really about worlds apart aside from the dark hued rich tonal balance.


 

DIY is in the works, posted on March 7, 1999 at 23:03:45
Paul Willie


 
The old MBQuart bookshelf units are sounding worse every day.

Currently working on a vented two way. $30 Rat Shack Linaeum tweeters and Peerless 832592 woofers. Waiting for XO paarts right now.

PW

 

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