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Head room...

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Posted on June 6, 2021 at 15:04:25
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001



And then some.

Working hard to re-build my 300B mono-blocks. Got one done and should have parts arriving Monday so I can finish the second.

8 watts should drive my 106dB Edgar Titans leaving quite a bit of headroom even with a 400 Sq Ft listening room.

106 dB - 8 W
103 dB - 16 W
100 dB- 32 W
97 dB - 64 W
94 dB - 128 W
91 dB - 256 W
88 dB - 512 W
85 dB - 1024 W

So it would seem, if the above is to be believed, that 8W per channel into 106dB speakers is about equivalent to 1,000W per channel worth of sand amps driving my 85dB Joseph Audio 'Pulsars' in the family room (which ain't gonna happen).

Should have plenty of 'head room' when I finally get the second mono-block rebuilt.



First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

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RE: Head room..., posted on June 7, 2021 at 09:04:38
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18285
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 And you are Bi-amping as well, correct?

For myself, once I got rid of 'Bass Duties' for my SET amps, Head Room was something I never had to worry about. Even with my 1.8 Watt 45 Amps.



 

Was..., posted on June 7, 2021 at 10:14:50
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 But I was using one Bottlehead 'S.E.X' stereo 'spud' amp per side and an active x-over giving me 4 watts total per side.

That was just and experiment to see what an active x-over could do, crossing the Edgar salad bowel horns at 500Hz.

But I'm just bi-amping one side with a Bottlehead 'spud' amp and the other side with the one completed re-build of the 300B 'Billie' which, with all film caps, a Tent Labs filament supply and a different driver circuit, is really a 'Billie' no more.






First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Would you ............, posted on June 7, 2021 at 10:26:23
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18285
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 Ever try Bi-Amping with the 300B?



 

Depends...., posted on June 7, 2021 at 10:45:18
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 As I am not likely to have TWO pairs of decent 300B mono-blocks much less likely two pairs of WE 300B, maybe not.

I'll have to see how much better one 300B monoblock per side is compared to bi-amping the 'spud' amps with an active x-over.

It may well be that the rebuild of the 'Billies' fixes enough problems that bi-amping with an active x-over becomes moot.

Hoping so.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

I had not realized that you ................., posted on June 7, 2021 at 11:03:25
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18285
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 were Bi-amping with the 300Bs --- I wrongly assumed that you were using a Solid State Amp on the Bass Bins (Which I am doing)....

There is a lot to be gained by using Solid State on the Bass. Not that expensive either... I bought my Hypex Amps for $800 for the Pair (New), which included the built in Active Crossover. (500 watts per channel, as they are Bridged)



 

I was bi-amping with the Bottlehead S.E.X 'spud' amps..., posted on June 7, 2021 at 11:26:05
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001



Built two of them, used one per side.

With horns that cross at 500Hz to a folded mid-bass horn, way too much decent musical information is coming out of the mid-bass horn for a SS implementation.

And the only go from 500Hz to maybe 3dB down at 70Hz and 6dB at 60Hz then nothing.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Head room..., posted on June 7, 2021 at 11:36:03
Rocket_Powered
Audiophile

Posts: 439
Location: East Coast
Joined: May 15, 2020
 Congrats Ivan, that rebuild (from the pics you've posted) looks great and am pretty sure those WE300B's will sound spectacular. I've gone through my share of 300B tube rolling. One of my 90's WE300B that I'm currently using have a loose base and no amount of superglue will keep it together...oh well but as long it's still working.

Are those 106db Edgars silent at system idle?

 

The right side is with the re-built 300B monoblock..., posted on June 7, 2021 at 11:43:04
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 and yes, after a few micophonic 'sprongs' at turn on, as the tubes warm up, say a couple minutes, then NOTHING.

Stick my head in the Edgar 'salad bowel' and maybe some tube rush but that could be coming from the 6SN7 tubed pre.

It's as quiet as the other side which is using indirectly heated tubes in the Bottlehead S.E.X 'spud' amp.

Gonna give Guido Tent of Tent Labs credit for some of that as his filament supply is clearly doing its job.








First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: The right side is with the re-built 300B monoblock..., posted on June 7, 2021 at 12:13:24
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18285
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 "maybe some tube rush but that could be coming from the 6SN7 tubed pre."

That's what I would guess as well.

I know with my 115db Horns, I have to go through quite a few 6SN7s to find the Ultra Quiet Ones for my Pre-amp, or I will hear the 'Rush'.




 

RE: The right side is with the re-built 300B monoblock..., posted on June 8, 2021 at 08:52:45
Rocket_Powered
Audiophile

Posts: 439
Location: East Coast
Joined: May 15, 2020
 Wow, that is quite impressive with such high efficiency horns. I'm chasing down some buzz in my, a lot less efficient speakers which I think is also from the 6SN7 pre - perhaps those red base 5692's, will do some more checking tonight.

 

RE: Keep in mind that you really don't want to push the amp past about 20% of full power, posted on June 8, 2021 at 09:25:17
Ralph
Manufacturer

Posts: 4769
Location: Minnesota
Joined: April 24, 2002
 -or perhaps 25%.

Above those power levels the higher ordered harmonics start to show up, which is the source of the 'amazingly dynamic for such a low powered amp' thing you read about so often in comments about SETs.

The higher orders are used by the ear/brain system to sense sound pressure. Its the transients where the power is needed most of the time; when the higher orders show up on the transients you get 'dynamic'.

IME, in about 90% of all audiophile conversation you can safely use the word 'distortion' to replace 'dynamics' without changing the meaning of the conversation.

But with 106dB you'll be in the ballpark :)

 

RE: The right side is with the re-built 300B monoblock..., posted on June 12, 2021 at 17:17:01
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 Careful with the 5692. The heater draws more current.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

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