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It sure seems...

71.146.61.219
Posted on August 20, 2020 at 14:39:49
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1989
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
 It sure seems like there should be more ingenuity in the department of accommodating subs into low watt systems. For example, you rarely see refined tube pre-amps with two outputs or elegant high pass networks baked in. I have yet to see a high efficiency speaker with a natural roll off at 80Hz. Just think the possibilities that would open up.
Low watt analog on top and high watt amps w digital processing on the bottom octave where the room integration is needed most, seems like a no brainer. But someone needs to tell the manufacturers.

 

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RE: It sure seems... , posted on August 20, 2020 at 15:07:47
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18286
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 "For example, you rarely see refined tube pre-amps with two outputs or elegant high pass networks baked in."

My Don Sachs Tube Pre-amp has 2 Outputs. My Hypex Digital Amps that I use on my Bass Bins have quite an elegant Crossover 'baked in'.

My Tube Amps feed my Oris Horns on Top and the Hypex Feed my Khorn Bass Bins.

You're just looking at the Wrong Manufacturers.



 

RE: It sure seems... , posted on August 20, 2020 at 16:27:05
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1989
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
 The Sachs preamp is duly noted.

How do you high pass and where is the xover point for the bass bins.

I'm guessing here, but... your set up is different than trying to integrate a "true" sub. You're basically biamping a two way.

 

RE: It sure seems... , posted on August 20, 2020 at 18:13:51
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18286
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 Yes, I am Bi-amping, but it actually a 3-way. My Horn has a Compression Driver with a Concentric Tweeter. -- The 45 amps feed the Horn through a Passive Crossover, Crossed over at 7500 hz. The Bass Bins are Driven by Hypex Amps that have an Active Electronic Crossover that is currently set at 270 Hz.

So Tweeter > 7,500 Hz.
Midrange > 270 Hz < 7,500 Hz.
Bass Bins < 270 Hz






 

RE: It sure seems... , posted on August 20, 2020 at 18:20:58
Rod M
Web Geek

Posts: 16244
Location: So. California
Joined: March 1, 1999
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 Both of my preamps, Aryea and BAT, have two outputs.

My Edgarhorns have an 80hz bass horn that drops like a rock at 80hz, so I have two 15" subs fed by the second preamp outputs. The subs have a microphone with automatic EQ. It works great.

-Rod

 

Manley & VTL, posted on August 21, 2020 at 13:06:56
Bill Way
Audiophile

Posts: 1884
Location: Toms River NJ
Joined: May 28, 2012
Contributor
  Since: December 14, 2012
 The Manley Shrimp has 2 output pairs. The old VTL Deluxe preamp had the best: a high-impedance out for connection to tube amps, and a low-impedance out for s/s (or tube) amps. If you added a series cap in front of the high-impedance out, it functioned as a high-pass 6 dB/octave filter at your choice of frequency.

WW
"Put on your high heeled sneakers. Baby, we''re goin'' out tonight.

 

RE: It sure seems... , posted on August 21, 2020 at 13:49:40
Blackdog
Manufacturer

Posts: 1505
Location: Ontario
Joined: March 20, 2006
 All my preamps come with two sets of outputs. Crossover is generally handled by the sub, but it is easy to accomodate a high pass into any of my designs.


Dan Santoni

 

RE: It sure seems... , posted on August 22, 2020 at 14:22:44
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1989
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
 "it is easy to accommodate a high pass into any of my designs."

Care to elaborate?

 

RE: Manley & VTL, posted on August 22, 2020 at 14:25:14
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1989
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
 Now that's what Im talking about... but those old VTL kit don't have the best rep for long no-maintenance use.

 

RE: It sure seems... , posted on August 24, 2020 at 13:18:22
Blackdog
Manufacturer

Posts: 1505
Location: Ontario
Joined: March 20, 2006
 All that is needed is to seperate the two sets of outputs. One set then gets a small cap in series, while the other set goes full range. If i know the input impedance of the amp, a 6db/octave high pass filter can be made.
A 12db/octave could also be done the same way, but requires more parts and more math.


Dan Santoni

 

RE: It sure seems... , posted on August 24, 2020 at 13:54:31
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1989
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
 One could do something similar with the inputs of the amp... right?

What would be your preference?

 

RE: It sure seems... , posted on August 24, 2020 at 15:44:34
Blackdog
Manufacturer

Posts: 1505
Location: Ontario
Joined: March 20, 2006
 Absolutely. I've done it a few times.
Vandersteen subs require a 100hz high pass and they make one that goes between amp and preamp or in a tape loop. Instead of doing that, I've modified the amp for a few of my customers.
The only downside is the amp better be a keeper or needs to be changed back.



Dan Santoni

 

Vaughn, posted on September 3, 2020 at 11:13:21
Gordon Rankin
Manufacturer

Posts: 2928
Joined: June 9, 2000
 Lokie,

Vaughn Loudspeakers has been doing that for years. I actually was doing that back in the day and got too busy with amps so I let Jim make the speakers.

Augmented full range, were you let the midrange go from 80->10K, I wrote a paper in college about the idea. Came to this conclusion when I tried to make a 3way speaker system with electronic xover with 3 different amps. It sounded terrible no matter what I did. Later determined that if your going to do this you need to xover below 80Hz (Low E on a guitar) and above 10K. Built an array of 8 jordan speakers with a sub and a super tweeter. Think that was my first Wavelength named product. Senior year in 1981.

Thanks,
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin

 

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