SET Asylum

Single Ended Triodes (SETs), the ultimate tube lovers dream.

Return to SET Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

Thoughts on current 300B's?

74.215.97.12
Posted on June 29, 2020 at 08:46:19
Gordon Rankin
Manufacturer

Posts: 2928
Joined: June 9, 2000
 All,

So in talking to WE last week the factory of course closed for the virus and they are restarting again.

Been pretty dissatisfied with the PSvane and Full Music 300B's. Don't really care for the ELrog or what I would call the hybrid 300B based on Alesa Vaic designs (i.e. KR, Emissions Labs).

The JJ are good for general usage stuff and they last and sound pretty good. But I am looking for something a bit better. I have a bunch of silver output transformers and some free time so looking for something really good.

Thinking of taking a chance on the Takatsuki as the next best idea. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: Thoughts on current 300B's?, posted on June 29, 2020 at 09:46:43
calloway
Audiophile

Posts: 729
Joined: February 12, 2000
 Having tried the Elrog 300B..the Sophia 'Royal Princess', the Psvane WE 300B and the Psvane ACME 300Bs I think..in my system, that the Psvane ACME are the best. A friend of mine tried all also and just ordered a pair of the Psvane ACME 300Bs..

 

Take your time building the amps and wait for Charlie's 'new' WE300B?, posted on June 29, 2020 at 14:45:41
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 You're a young guy, Gordon.

Me? I don't have the time to wait that long, but maybe you do. :-)




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Thoughts on current 300B's?, posted on June 29, 2020 at 21:55:15
OldNuke
Audiophile

Posts: 141
Location: Silicon Valley
Joined: November 18, 2014
 Well,
My limited experience is with the more reasonable priced 300B's :). I have tried Psvane's and Full Music's, EH's, EH Gold, JJ's and Genalex Gold Lions. Out of them all the Genalex sounded best in my system but I must've gotten a bad lot because they would die off on me. Currently I'm satisfied with some JJ's in a Preamp and EH Gold's in my power amp. See no reason to change for what I think would be a minimal improvement if any.
Let us know how your journey ends.
What silver outputs are you thinking of using?
Alonzo

 

+1 Genalex Gold Lion..., posted on June 30, 2020 at 06:19:45
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1346
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 I've had no reliability issues so far.
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

AN(UK) 4300E , posted on July 2, 2020 at 08:07:15
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 I have heard it in an all Audio Note system. It's a tube worth listening to.

 

RE: AN(UK) 4300E , posted on July 2, 2020 at 09:51:20
calloway
Audiophile

Posts: 729
Joined: February 12, 2000
 yea..thought about getting a pair and trying them..

 

RE: Thoughts on current 300B's?, posted on July 2, 2020 at 13:08:28
Gerry E.
Audiophile

Posts: 2192
Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
Joined: February 19, 2000
 Hi Gordon:

Definitely give the Takatsuki TA-300Bs a try! I wasted over a year listening to the JJ 300Bs while waiting for the WE 300Bs to come out. I got tired of waiting for the Westerns and purchased the Takatsuki. If the JJ vs. Takatsuki were a boxing match, it would be over in the first round. Of course, given the price differential, that's the way it should be.

When I finally did get that first (and only?) 2020 consumer pair of WE 300Bs, after a bit of break in, they were the equal of the Takatsuki. However, I couldn't justify keeping both, so I sold the Westerns because they have more value on the used market.

As for the Audio Note 4300E, while they may sound good, unlike the other two 300Bs, we don't know if they pass the reliability/longevity test.

Gerry

 

Who makes that tube?, posted on July 7, 2020 at 10:58:59
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10282
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 It's gotta be a rebranded something or other.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: Who makes that tube?, posted on July 7, 2020 at 11:15:11
dth31
Audiophile

Posts: 298
Location: San Diego
Joined: September 3, 2002
 Made by PSvane. https://www.dagogo.com/audio-note-uk-4300e-output-tube/

 

PSVANE here is, posted on July 7, 2020 at 18:56:40
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Peter Qvortrup describing the work with PSVANE - 31:30

 

RE: Who makes that tube?, posted on July 8, 2020 at 05:32:19
dave slagle
Manufacturer

Posts: 5430
Location: NYC
Joined: April 27, 2001



The first picture in that article immediately actually struck my interest since the top mica support does not come in contact with the envelope. further down in the article there is a seemingly identical picture of a different tube where the top mica is in direct contact with the glass.





speculation below.... would love to see citations for or against the concept.

When early tube manufacture moved away from globe to ST shaped tubes the top mica showed up in place of a glass arbor (talking globe 50 here) This mica also was a "press fit" into the inside of the top of the tube to assure everything was visually straight. Now globe and ST 50's sound very different and the big thing you notice is when you tap the tube, the ST sounds like hitting a trash can and the globe has an almost gong like sound. When the new production globe tubes came out over a decade+ ago, the top support mica remained and tethered the top of the plate structure to the envelope. I didn't notice a major difference between globe and ST tubes of the same manufacturer. There were small differences but nothing like that of a globe vs. a ST 50. This is what made me start thinking it was not the shape of the envelope but the mechanical resonant behavior that caused the difference in sound between globe and ST tubes.

Back to the AN tube. The first picture has a screened logo and may have been a first prototype and could have used a ST mica. The second picture has what appears to be an engraved badge with serial # inside the tube and it will be interesting to see which way the final production went wrt top mica.

dave

 

RE: Who makes that tube?, posted on July 8, 2020 at 15:23:32
dth31
Audiophile

Posts: 298
Location: San Diego
Joined: September 3, 2002

Used pair for sale now on eBay, with picture.

 

RE: Who makes that tube?, posted on July 8, 2020 at 15:28:03
JayD
Audiophile

Posts: 335
Joined: June 21, 2000
 The tubes pictured in the Audio Note shop and Parts Connection don't look like that. They look like the one that Dave Slagle put up in his message.

 

RE: Who makes that tube?, posted on July 8, 2020 at 16:56:54
dave slagle
Manufacturer

Posts: 5430
Location: NYC
Joined: April 27, 2001






Interesting... the ebay ones show the tube to have an round top mica support with another "Trimmed on the side" round support above it extending beyond to the tube glass. This looks identical to the one in the dagogo picture of the tube with the serial number inside the glass. The top picture in the Dagogo article with the screen printed label is rotated 90

 

I have a very early version of the 2.5V TJ Mesh Plate (perferations, not real mesh)..., posted on July 9, 2020 at 04:53:31
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 made in China, of course, in which the top mica does not touch the glass to secure the inards of the tube.

Good sounding tubes but microphonic as all get out.

Later, Full Music/TJ claims to have fixed this with a larger mica that held the workings in place and claimed less microphonics than the first version.

Who knows?




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: I have a very early version of the 2.5V TJ Mesh Plate (perferations, not real mesh)..., posted on July 10, 2020 at 17:33:22
dave slagle
Manufacturer

Posts: 5430
Location: NYC
Joined: April 27, 2001
 I find it hard to believe that firmly fixing the structure to the top of the envelope as well as the bottom helps isolate it from outside vibration. If anything, I would expect it to push the resonant frequency of the vibrating bits up which i would expect to be much more objectionable.

My gut feel is that the top support showed up in conjunction with the ST tube to make assembly easy and repeatable... nobody wants a tube with a plate leaning to one side or the other... all of the electrons will most certainly fall out.

dave

 

RE: "all of the electrons will most certainly fall out.", posted on July 11, 2020 at 08:46:03
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 My thoughts exactly!

Whatever they did, and maybe they did other things as well, they claim to have fixed the microphonics in later TJ/Full Music globe tubes. I never tried them so I have to take their word for it.

Have a pair of early KR 300B (ST with very thin glass) that are also mircrophonic. Later KR had thicker glass and were supposed to be less microphonic.

Who knows. Best 300B I've had in my system is the Charlie's Kansas made WE300B which I've had for about 15 years? No getter left but they still play.

Doubt I'll live to see another WE300B from Charlie. :-(




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: I have a very early version of the 2.5V TJ Mesh Plate (perferations, not real mesh)..., posted on July 13, 2020 at 04:39:22
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12364
Joined: May 14, 2002
 Well, the ST build fixes the top to the glass with some mica. The design of this mica varied a fair bit, usually little nubs, the Tung-Sol mouse ears, and the 5881/6098-style additional pads...

The folks I talked to all said this was assembly for assembly alignment. As with all the internal features that often seem taken as hallmarks of THe Right Tube, I do have my doubts as to their intentional addition for anything else other than improving and shortening the ramp up to full specification production when it came time to execute a type run.

There have been plenty of leaner tubes through my hands, though this has mostly been base to glass. Sift a big pile of 6SN7's and see...:)
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

Waiting for Godot, posted on July 14, 2020 at 13:17:14
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2651
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012
 Website is " 1997-2016 Western Electric Export Corporation."
Me thinks it is truly all done.

However, if you Venmo me a downpayment today of only $600 I can guarantee delivery of a perfect pair of WE300b tubes within the next 6 months. Venmo to RogerStone@gmail.com

 

RE: Thoughts How much does Plate Structure effect sound on current 300B's?, posted on July 16, 2020 at 15:49:43
drummerwill
Audiophile

Posts: 965
Location: St Louis Mo.
Joined: January 7, 2003
 Flat plates, formed (bent), coatings, not to mention Mesh or
perforated, all can effect the sound.

Having never heard a true WE 300B. How do you Gauge the quantity of
value each 300B tube brings ?

I have listen to Sovteks, Valve Arts ( Nickle plates) and TJ early
mesh (perfs). Certainly not your top tier 300Bs.

But I have heard the difference in sound between a Slyvania VT-52 and a WE VT-52 , it's not subtle .

just Curious
Willie

 

RE: Thoughts How much does Plate Structure effect sound on current 300B's?, posted on July 27, 2020 at 11:18:32
Gordon Rankin
Manufacturer

Posts: 2928
Joined: June 9, 2000
 Willie,

Each company working with 300B's is a bit different. It's not just the plate but also the filament and Grid.

A couple years back Electro Harmonix was having some issues with their 300B. I worked with their engineers over there and they made some changes that made the tube better.

The main reason the different in the VT52 Sylvania and Hytron/WE tube is the filament supply. The Sylvania are 6.3V filament and the Hytron/WE are 7v. It makes a big difference as you can starve the Hyrton/WE if your design uses 6.3V as the reference.

Thanks,
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin

 

Thanks for the great reply ....nt ., posted on July 27, 2020 at 12:20:56
drummerwill
Audiophile

Posts: 965
Location: St Louis Mo.
Joined: January 7, 2003

 

RE: Thoughts on current 300B's?, posted on August 2, 2020 at 04:54:31
slemin@bigpond.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Location: Qld
Joined: March 11, 2014
 I have the Takatsuki along with a bunch of various 300b pairs . The Takatsuki is the closest to old school WE available in my system. Lots of other variations that people rave about but they are the closest I've found to the original.

 

RE: Thoughts on current 300B's?, posted on August 5, 2020 at 11:03:16
kobasa@xs4all.nl
 Is there any new tube that has a really modern getter system? I am talking about a vacuum better then in space. Cern has proven that it is not a problem nowadays so why tube today have an old getter system?

 

RE: Thoughts on current 300B's?, posted on November 13, 2020 at 07:34:52
antigrunge
Audiophile

Posts: 80
Location: London
Joined: June 20, 2007
 I have compared TJ Full Music mesh plates, Takatsukis and EAT300bs in my Wavac EC300b.
TJ: very upfront, somewhat harsh treble, wooly bass. Fun but loose
Takatsuki: very transparent, deep soundstage, extended but warm
EAT: very punchy, extended, most tranny but musical
For Jazz and Classical Takatsuki, for Rock and Pop: EAT
obviously YMMV depending on amp and rectifier tubes, I use Svetlana winged C after trying JAN Philips 7581a (too aggressive) and Tung-Sol KT66 (very musical but slow)
I hope this is useful

 

Page processed in 0.040 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]