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Would these monoblocs be really that good?

24.114.72.235
Posted on February 13, 2017 at 11:07:31
audiophilewannabe
Audiophile

Posts: 640
Location: toronto
Joined: July 19, 2004
 http://m.ebay.com/itm/281922889706?_mwBanner=1

Saw them on eBay last night . What's the experts opinion on these craziness. I actually emailed the guy and ask him about the output tubes. Apparently KR makes them for $3,000/pair.. LOL... I really wonder how it sounds.

 

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RE: Would these monoblocs be really that good?, posted on February 13, 2017 at 11:59:00
megasat16
Audiophile

Posts: 207
Location: SoCal
Joined: April 15, 2015
 Only 19K + 6K for shipping to find out.

All transformers seems to be some of the best available but 4212 can only produce about additional 10W (may be 15) from the 845. I don't see much the point in power.

If you are a Big Triode fan, there are bigga triode out there to DIY.


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.Thou shall not stand where I type for I carry a bottle of Certified Audiophile Air and a Pure Silver Whip.

 

RE: Would these monoblocs be really that good?, posted on February 13, 2017 at 13:29:06
h00hbt
Audiophile

Posts: 495
Location: Sweet spot
Joined: July 8, 2007



Hi

They look absolutely fantastic! BTW the tubes KR makes are in fact KR1610, the biggest tube in production today. They are not the same as the 4212 tubes.

 

$19,000 for the pair, posted on February 13, 2017 at 13:44:04
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 Who knows, but with these power tubes, I'd worry.

 

RE: $19,000 for the pair, posted on February 13, 2017 at 13:59:55
audiophilewannabe
Audiophile

Posts: 640
Location: toronto
Joined: July 19, 2004
 Don't forget the $3,000 shipping cost!

 

RE: $19,000 for the pair, posted on February 13, 2017 at 14:20:11
megasat16
Audiophile

Posts: 207
Location: SoCal
Joined: April 15, 2015
 Yep, that's for EACH. So, the shipping is 6K for the pair in my previous post.
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.
.Thou shall not stand where I type for I carry a bottle of Certified Audiophile Air and a Pure Silver Whip.

 

RE: $19,000 for the pair, posted on February 13, 2017 at 14:46:46
audiophilewannabe
Audiophile

Posts: 640
Location: toronto
Joined: July 19, 2004
 Wait... a round trip ticket to Japan is around $1,300. Most airlines allow you 50lbs/luggage your allowed 2, I think.. hmmm...

 

RE: Would these monoblocs be really that good?, posted on February 13, 2017 at 17:46:45
lakerfan
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Joined: April 9, 2002
 18K is a lot of money, unless you are "rich", but the "best" amplifier I personally have ever heard had that same Tango iron through out. The sound was unreal. So that being said........ no

 

I see nothing in the ad saying tubes are included..., posted on February 13, 2017 at 17:55:40
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 or that the tubes shown actually work.

Where you gonna get a supply of STC 4212 tubes if they are included and do work but one goes bad?




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: I see nothing in the ad saying tubes are included..., posted on February 13, 2017 at 19:34:46
BenM
 From ad:

"SHIPPING: I include all tubes that you see in pictures but due to age I dont give any guarantee for tube, consider it as gift and not a part of the deal."

 

those look like some mighty fine chinese switch mode filament supplies under there, posted on February 13, 2017 at 19:53:48
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2652
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012
 But hey, I will bet the amps put out 15 watts each at 10% distortion

 

RE: Would these monoblocs be really that good?, posted on February 14, 2017 at 05:46:51
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10048
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 The pricing is too high without a non-DOA warranty on the tubes. Lack of specifications is another issue. The seller doesn't even rate the output power or frequency response. Then there's the fact these can't be used in the U.S. without a step-down transformer or variac. How do they sound? That's anyone's guess. It would be smart to fly there for an audition before signing the check.

 

RE: Would these monoblocs be really that good?, posted on February 14, 2017 at 06:35:17
rogerh113
Audiophile

Posts: 508
Location: San Francisco South Bay
Joined: October 20, 2014
 I agree with you about the Hirata Tango 'sound', particularly with an interstage transformer - truly remarkable. They do seem impossible to find, anywhere outside of Japan. As a result, few have been able to hear, or even see, an example.

Wavac has their high end, Shishido base product, but they use(d) later Iso Tango transformers, and I have heard comments on less than ideal component choices (commercial product). Not sure they can compare with a carefully put together, custom built product.

Certainly true about the tubes and power choices. Unfortunately I think much of the special order Tango transformers created for amps were for the Japanese market, so finding anything other than 100v could be quite challenging. ottoman_vintage frequently has offerings like this, many times with more 'standard' tubes (but with less power). See http://www.ebay.com/itm/351937792130?rmvSB=true

I guess just the positives and negatives with possibly the best tube amp you will every hear or own. Hard to gauge if you have not heard one.

regards -- Roger

 

So tubes are "not part of the deal"?, posted on February 14, 2017 at 09:51:05
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 OK, but they are included and may not even work?

Could be the case.

More red flags in this ebay offering than I have seen in quite some time.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: So tubes are "not part of the deal"?, posted on February 14, 2017 at 10:27:43
megasat16
Audiophile

Posts: 207
Location: SoCal
Joined: April 15, 2015
 STC 4212 Tubes are included and they works fine.

The problem is shipping from Japan to U.S and these tubes usually have fragile filament after being put into use.

By the way, guys. The 4212 tubes are the same as the 212 tubes by WE and Amperex. Price may be abrud by they are available once in a while on the auction site.

And the new production is being made by Chinese Psvane factory. The modern day 212 version of WE amp is also made by Line Magnetics (may be the better Chinese version).
.
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.Thou shall not stand where I type for I carry a bottle of Certified Audiophile Air and a Pure Silver Whip.

 

RE: So tubes are "not part of the deal"?, posted on February 14, 2017 at 11:22:24
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 You should be able to use the KR T-1620 in those amps. Or the W.E. 308b if you can find any.


Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Would these monoblocs be really that good?, posted on February 14, 2017 at 13:12:16
audiophilewannabe
Audiophile

Posts: 640
Location: toronto
Joined: July 19, 2004
 Ya , I don't know where this seller get his stuff, but he seems to have real good amps all the time. Well, they do look good from his description . I was considering at one time on getting one of his 2A3 amps (more affordable) but just couldn't click on "Buy it Now" ... I might still consider a 300B from him one day. I got the Paraglows for now for the 2A3. I'm dying to hear a really well made SET on my Edgarhorns Titan from this guy. Maybe one day I'll click on that "Buy it Now" when my wife is not looking.

 

RE: Would these monoblocs be really that good?, posted on February 14, 2017 at 13:58:29
rogerh113
Audiophile

Posts: 508
Location: San Francisco South Bay
Joined: October 20, 2014
 I have been following his site for about 3 years. Saw some really stunning stuff in there which motivated me to want to try SET, and particularly Shishido SET (Tango with interstage) - Fine Arts brand has a lovely look to my eye (all business). Strange opportunity cropped up on US Audio Mart right then - guy selling a full, special order Tango transformer set for a Shishido build (120V power xformer) for a song. Jumped on that, built the amp up, and have never looked back. Just a pleasure to listen to every day, and I am still often caught-off guard by the musicality and clarity of the sound.

I realize that music sounds different to everyone, and thus the different offerings for amps and styles. The Shishido, to me, is pure music. A couple of reviews of the WAVAC 805 on the web - take a look at what they think. Not to plant the seed too deep....

regards -- Roger

 

RE: Would these monoblocs be really that good?, posted on February 14, 2017 at 16:29:30
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 I would not buy it unless I heard it first because you just never know. Further you have to make sure that just because something says Tango or black gate or whatever premium part - that it is in fact said premium part. A lot of fakes out there.

 

RE: I see nothing in the ad saying tubes are included..., posted on February 17, 2017 at 10:19:59
Ed Sawyer
Audiophile

Posts: 2595
Joined: November 3, 2000
 Chances are the source in Aus. still has a stash of 212s. Or Dan, I bet.

 

RE: So tubes are "not part of the deal"?, posted on February 17, 2017 at 10:21:24
Ed Sawyer
Audiophile

Posts: 2595
Joined: November 3, 2000
 308 is rarer than 212 by a large sight, and not the same tube either. KRs - doubtful, at least not without changes.

 

RE: Would these monoblocs be really that good?, posted on February 17, 2017 at 10:25:33
Ed Sawyer
Audiophile

Posts: 2595
Joined: November 3, 2000
 At least on paper you should be able to easily get 50w in single-ended A1 out of a 212, maybe more.

 

RE: So tubes are "not part of the deal"?, posted on February 17, 2017 at 10:45:05
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 The T 1610 was created to replace the WE 308b in the Cary amp.

I sold my WE 308bs to this guy who said he would use them in his 212 amp.

I can't imagine is would take too much adjusting of the circuit.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Been there. Don't do it., posted on February 19, 2017 at 10:32:49
Todd A.
 My son worked for the airlines, so being able to fly for free, both of us flew out to Las Vegas to pick up a pair of VAC monos. Yes, you can check them as baggage, but they're not insured for over $100 or so. One of them landed with a bent faceplate.

 

212 Komuru build, posted on February 20, 2017 at 05:18:29
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1989
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
 A link to a Nori Komuro 212 build.

 

RE: 212 Komuru build, posted on February 20, 2017 at 09:43:53
megasat16
Audiophile

Posts: 207
Location: SoCal
Joined: April 15, 2015
 Yep, seen them before. Kumuro rocks but for 45K a pair, he could have put all BG caps in them. BG heart of muse were cheap and abundant at the time he built them.

While I liked the 845/211 sound, I thought such as the 212E is the way to go. But really, there are BIGGA Triodes out there at more reasonable price and easier to obtain than the 212. I really like the Japanese 4212SE amp though. But the gold coins is something less than time I have so I'll just built me some Bigga SET. Parts are here. Time is scarce but coins more so.
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.Thou shall not stand where I type for I carry a bottle of Certified Audiophile Air and a Pure Silver Whip.

 

The price is for one mono block., posted on February 24, 2017 at 02:01:32
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 These are beautiful amps and they could power a pair of electrostatic speakers with ease. You are looking at 23k when all said and done.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Would these monoblocs be really that good?, posted on February 26, 2017 at 18:36:13
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001

Frankly for not that much more money that you are prepared to spend you could buy these power amps. 212 kgs each and according to the editor of enjoythemusic.com sound great.

scroll to bottom.



 

RE: So tubes are "not part of the deal"?, posted on February 27, 2017 at 09:19:28
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12365
Joined: May 14, 2002
 Given I have seen an amp capable of running 845 and 211, the 308 and 212 could run in that same sort of amp. There is the same 2:1 plate resistance and mu difference.
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

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