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"Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years."

72.133.34.30
Posted on June 4, 2017 at 17:54:44
4everyoung
 That comment was made by an engineer friend of mine (John Curl) while discussing my recent purchase of a vintage Yamaha amp from the 1970s. While I hate to disagree with someone who's been around since turntables had wind-up cranks, that old Yamaha sounds better than most of the modern solid state I've heard. Thoughts?

 

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RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on June 6, 2017 at 09:23:44
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4391
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 There have been a few 'big' changes since the first circuits appeared in tube manuals, IEEE proceedings and electronics magazines, and most of them have been the result of an individual designer who has 'found'/developed/refined a circuit that is more ___:efficient, has wider band-with, more linear power curve, etc.

That being said, what you have found in the Yamaha versus a newer SS unit is the difference of design goals - then versus now...
Happy Listening

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on June 7, 2017 at 20:34:12
Tweaker456
 I must say that I'm a bit shocked at the comment since you assumedly get to hear lots of amps. If you are listening to amps with much newer and better caps, resistors, connectors... they "should" in general blow away some 30 year old a Yamaha. I am talking about amps made with some thought about quality parts. I'm sure plenty of amps uses mediocre stuff but I feel it is a big disservice to customers if they do if they are catering to audio people. The Yamaha probably has 3 cent resistors in them. There is likely not one high end part in it. It also has the disadvantage of having so many controls. T456

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on June 8, 2017 at 07:18:17
geoffkait
 The Yamaha Natural Sound receivers sound quite good. But like a lot of things it's difficult to say why. It's not that easy to say with certainty exactly why one amp sounds better than another. That's what makes this hobby so interesting. It depends on who's doing the comparison, how careful the test is, the system is which the test is performed, the consciousness the person doing the test has of all the various variables involved in what constitutes good sound, and so forth.

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on June 8, 2017 at 08:26:08
Tweaker456
 Yo Geoff, Am I to surmise that you are coming to the defense of a damsel in distress??

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on June 8, 2017 at 09:27:15
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 That has to be the most cogent post you've ever made (or at lease that I have every read from you).

So is your other persona a put on?


Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on June 8, 2017 at 10:01:29
geoffkait
 All of my posts are cogent. It's just that some minds are orthogonal to reality.

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on June 8, 2017 at 11:15:41
Tweaker456
 +1

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on June 8, 2017 at 11:20:17
Tweaker456
 Orthogonal to reality? Like, you mean like using 54 AWG wire for loudspeakers?

 

Check out this comparison of old vs new Yamaha, posted on June 8, 2017 at 13:47:36
4everyoung





View YouTube Video

 

RE: Check out this comparison of old vs new Yamaha, posted on June 8, 2017 at 21:39:02
Tweaker456
 The older Yam. is described near the beginning as being single ended push pull. Am I missing something??? Also the newer amp did sound better according to the reviewer. One reason you like your amp is , according to what I read,is that it is fully direct coupled. This , in my humblest of opinions is The only way to design a solid state amp. 100% sure of this! 30 watts pure Class A??? With the heat sinks covered? Could be, I guess. Looks like you got a good deal on a well built nice sounding amp. The main thing is that you like it a lot (because it's direct coupled). Have you brought home a Halo 2.1 yet??? T456

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on June 11, 2017 at 13:49:30
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Take SAME sheet of paper design.
Do 2 or 3 different layouts without being nutty.
Take 2 sets of parts for EACH amp. Budget / Cheap and Cost-No-Object.

You'll end up with enough audible differences to make you scratch your head.


Too much is never enough

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on June 11, 2017 at 18:34:55
Tweaker456
 The reason I myself would scratch my head is that I don't understand why just about everyone who makes audio with any pretense to quality sound doesn't put a couple of fairly high end parts in a couple of critical spots. Like maybe 50 cent resistors on the input instead of 5 cent ones. I'm not talking Vishay metal foil here. Charge $3.00 more for it. IMHO it's a rather cynical industry. Enid seems awfully quiet?? Where's she at? Tweaker

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on June 11, 2017 at 22:18:25
4everyoung
 Enid? I haven't been able to reboot my computer since early Friday morning. Some kind of power surge took out everything. More storms headed this way tonight. I can't wait :-(

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on July 4, 2017 at 15:25:16
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I've used both an M-4 and an M-60 in my system to very good effect. They won't drive crazy loads, but they sound very good to my ears. I think the Yamaha is very under-appreciated in the US. In Japan, some of the amps and preamps go for big bucks.

Dave

 

RE: "Amp designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years.", posted on July 4, 2017 at 15:27:25
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 My M-4 has no electrolytics in the signal path.

Dave.

 

Does your Yamaha use EI transformers? NT, posted on December 9, 2017 at 16:05:42
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 NT

 

Actually they do not, posted on April 20, 2018 at 19:50:04
Stale
Audiophile

Posts: 3263
Location: So. California
Joined: August 3, 2001
 At least to my ears. Slow, syrupy, no sense of space or rhythm, as musical as dead donkey, sound-stage depth of a soup plate and width of strand of hair.
OK, I am exaggerating, but there is no doubt that there are loads of competent and excellent today, for very reasonable price.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."

 

Yes, that's true. Everyone's still copying the original McIntosh circuit. Nt, posted on April 21, 2018 at 04:58:24
geoffkait
 Nt

 

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