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Qobuz and Volumio?

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Posted on April 3, 2023 at 09:57:43

gusser
Audiophile

Posts: 3649
Location: So. California
Joined: September 6, 2006

I have a setup using a Raspberry Pi as my music server feeding a DAC via USB. Based on internet advice, I use Qobuz through Volumio. Works fine.

(Note I am in the broadcast TV industry so I understand streaming on a technical level, hence this question:)

What is the purpose of Volumio? Qobuz will stream directly. I know Volumio supplies native bit depth and sample rate but how is that done on their end? If the file is in MP3 coming from Qobuz, how does Volumio get it back to native uncompressed audio? Does Volumio have a private link to Qobuz to get the native file where as Qobuz compresses the same data to MP3 on the fly for direct Qobuz streaming? I know that is technically possible.

Is Volumio needed because I am using a Raspberry Pi as the streamer? I have a dedicated Windows PC to run Volumio in a browser so I can control it. But that PC of course has USB ports. Why not just connect the DAC to the PC and just run the Qobuz app which is superior to the WEB Volumio UI? Is the Raspberry Pi just redundant hardware in my setup?

Note that I am a bits are bits guy. I don't believe the Raspberry Pi feeding the DAC via USB is any better sound quality than a Windows PC would be. But I am open to opinions here.

I hope I am not paying the additional cost for Volumio where they take an MP3 file from Qobuz and just un-compress it to provide native bit depth and sample rate?

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E-Stat

05:37:41 04/04/23

gusser

08:54:49 04/04/23

mlsstl

11:23:14 04/04/23

...

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E-Stat

05:37:41 04/04/23

gusser

08:54:49 04/04/23

mlsstl

11:23:14 04/04/23

zacster

13:51:07 04/05/23

gusser

12:06:42 04/04/23

OK so Volumio = RPI?

gusser

10:00:59 04/05/23

RE: OK so Volumio = RPI?

Dawnrazor

11:30:47 04/17/23

RE: OK so Volumio = RPI?

Cut-Throat

11:18:15 04/05/23

AbeCollins

08:44:47 04/05/23

Lots of choices

E-Stat

13:30:13 04/04/23

mlsstl

12:40:16 04/04/23

You don't need Volumio .............

Cut-Throat

12:24:52 04/04/23

RE: Qobuz and Volumio?

Cut-Throat

11:51:57 04/03/23

RE: Qobuz and Volumio?, posted on April 3, 2023 at 11:51:57

Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18285
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
Since: May 16, 2021

A few of your questions answered here:

I use a Raspberry Pi (In fact I have 10 of them in my House)... They all Run PiCorePlayer (PcP), which allows a lot of Control over your Raspberry Pi. Pages full of Custom Pluggins that do nice things. This software is free.

I don't use Volumio, because when I tried it; It was buggy as hell. Also Volumio charged for their Qobuz interface. And it was very limited in Features compared to PcP.

I don't like using a PC for my Music Streamer for a lot of reasons: It is not built solely for Music Streaming like PcP and is also lacking in features compared to PcP. The Hardware itself is also lacking in streaming features compared to a Rasberry Pi in terms of Music Streaming. It has no Optical, Coax, I2S, BNC Output Ports which you can add to the RPi.

But yes, you can use your PC, if you want.... But I much Prefer a Dedicated Raspberry Pi. I have suspicions that a PC is much noisier than a Raspberry Pi as there is much more 'going on' with a PC, especially if it has a spinning hard drive and other moving parts. The Rpi has no moving parts. (I cannot prove that a PC is noisier However).

Question, posted on April 4, 2023 at 05:37:41
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37606 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	here they take an MP3 file from Qobuz Why would you be listening to lossy content where high resolution 24 bit content is available? I'm an IT guy but prefer tiny devices using stripped down versions of Linux dedicated to that single task. And avoid using cheap switch mode power supplies that add false brightness to the music.

RE: Question, posted on April 4, 2023 at 08:54:49

gusser
Audiophile

Posts: 3649
Location: So. California
Joined: September 6, 2006

No, I don't want MP3. I want full bit depth and the native sample rate.

My question is how does Volumio get native bit depth and sample rate from Qobuz? Volumio is not a content provider but rather a service that ports Qobuz and Tidal at full bit depth and sample rate for more demanding customers. I have also learned Volumio is what makes streaming from a Raspberry Pi possible as Qobuz does not support Linux directly.

Hopefully Volumio is getting private access to the native files at Qobuz where as the Qobuz app can be played directly but only in MP3.

So is Volumio getting native files from Qobuz?

Or is Volumio just decoding the MP3 files to native, which would be pointless as far as getting true native files?

If I can get native files high rez files directly from Qoboz, then I can play directly from a PC with the Qobuz app and don't need the buggy Volumio. That means no more Raspberry Pi but the PC I use to access the Volumio WEB interface has a high end Lynx sound card with AES outputs. I can then feed the AES into my DAC.

As for noise the Lynx card also has balanced analog outputs. But I won't use those due to the PC internal RFI/EMI issues. The AES feed gets around that problem which would as good as the Raspberry USB setup.

RE: Question, posted on April 4, 2023 at 11:23:14

mlsstl
Audiophile

Posts: 1079
Location: Midwest
Joined: September 1, 2015

>> "...where as the Qobuz app can be played directly but only in MP3."

Not sure what you are talking about. Below is a screenshot from the Qobuz app on my phone. It clearly shows you can set the streaming bit rate from 320 kbps MP3 up to 24 bit/192 kHz hirez FLAC. The choice is yours. (People streaming over their phone via a cell connection instead of wi-fi often use the MP3 option to minimize data use charges.)

And, if you go to the Qobuz web browser page (play.qobuz.com), you also have the ability to use the same streaming rate options.

I have several players in my home set up. Two are RPIs running PCP and have no problem streaming Qobuz at the highest hirez option -- 24/192 kHz. I also have a RPi3 player running HiFiBerry OS and it does hirez. Two other players for my headphone stations use Inovato Quadras running Debian Bullseye (Linux) and Squeezelite, and they also do hirez. (All of the players are fed by a RPI running LMS.)

Note that if you choose an incoming stream at the 320K MP3 rate, there is nothing that can be done to truly convert it back to hirez -- that data has already been thrown away during the conversion down to MP3.

RE: Question, posted on April 4, 2023 at 12:06:42
gusser Audiophile Posts: 3649 Location: So. California Joined: September 6, 2006	OK, so why do I need Volumio if I can stream high rez directly to a RPIfrom Qobuz? What is the purpose or advantage to going thorough Volumio?

You don't need Volumio ............., posted on April 4, 2023 at 12:24:52

Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18285
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
Since: May 16, 2021

"OK, so why do I need Volumio if I can stream high rez directly to a RPIfrom Qobuz?"

But you need some operating system for your RPI.... You don't stream 'To an Rpi' (Unless you are using LMS via PcP or Roon in which you set up another RPi or a NAS to run as the server and then use an RPi as just a player), you stream from it. Currently you use Volumio, I use PcP.

RE: Question, posted on April 4, 2023 at 12:40:16

mlsstl
Audiophile

Posts: 1079
Location: Midwest
Joined: September 1, 2015

It doesn't matter if you are using your phone, a Windows PC, a Mac, a Linux PC or a Raspberry Pi, a tablet or some other type of computer -- you still need a program of some type to pick up and manage the incoming data from the internet.

On my phone, I use the Qobuz app. On my PC, I can use an internet browser that can connect to the http://play.qobuz.com web site. (In this case, a phone app is simply a web browser program that is dedicated to this one function.)

As noted, for my players, I use a RPI running Raspbian with the Logitech Media Server installed. LMS manages both my local collection and also connects with Qobuz. LMS then feeds the music stream to my players. And, as previously mentioned, I've got a variety of players running different OS programs that can pick up the data stream from LMS and play the music.

Volumio is just another program dedicated to music playback. They have OS versions for the Raspberry Pi, X86 PCs, and ASUS Tinkerboards. Volumio is just one of many different options you can use to set up music streaming. Which one you use depends on your personal taste for program interface and functions. Volumio has its dedicated following while others prefer PCP/LMS, or LMS by itself (which has options for RPI, PCs & Macs) and still others prefer MOode, Roon, and so on.

Lots of choices, posted on April 4, 2023 at 13:30:13

E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37606
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
Since: April 5, 2002

You can use your phone with Qobuz app with camera adapter for USB output or - what many do and use piCorePlayer running under LMS that allows for a single UI to play both their content and from your own digital library as though they were one.

LMS has a plug-in that requires your login for access. Favorite albums/tracks appear just like they live on your server and have a little "Q" in the corner.

RE: Question, posted on April 5, 2023 at 08:44:47

AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
Since: February 2, 2002

You don't NEED Volumio but you do need some sort of user interface for managing and controlling your music library and playback. That can be the Qobuz App, Web Interface, Volumio, etc.

I use Roon to navigate my albums that I ripped from CD's and downloads. It additionally manages playback from Qobuz and Tidal streaming services - all visible from a 'single pane of glass' interface w/o switching between multiple Apps.

When I'm on the road I use Roon ARC on my iPhone which allows me to stream my ripped albums that reside on my home system along with selections I've made at home from Qobuz and Tidal. The playlists that I have on my home setup also appear in my Roon ARC App - no need to recreate a mobile playlist to match what I have at home.

You can see details of my setup from my Asylum profile linked below:

My Audio Setup including Roon and Roon ARC

OK so Volumio = RPI?, posted on April 5, 2023 at 10:00:59
gusser Audiophile Posts: 3649 Location: So. California Joined: September 6, 2006	I can stream Qobuz directly from the Win PC I am using as a browser for Volumio? And I can get native bit depth and sample rate from QoBuz. As I said above I do have a good Lynx sound card in this PC so I'll try AES to my DAC and retire the RPI streamer. The only draw back is the old PCI Lynx card can only go to 96K. (that's how I got it free, was obsolete for pro use) :)

RE: OK so Volumio = RPI?, posted on April 5, 2023 at 11:18:15
Cut-Throat Audiophile Posts: 18285 Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area Joined: September 2, 2000 Contributor Since: May 16, 2021	Well, why don't you download PcP and run it for Free. It has a ton more features and Pluggins than Volumio.... I have been using it for over 10 years.... You won't have any limitations on resolution either. I wouldn't think of using a PC for my Music. It's a bit more complicated to set up than Volumio, but I can help you if you get in a jam... There are a couple good install videos as well.

RE: Question, posted on April 5, 2023 at 13:51:07

zacster
Audiophile

Posts: 2179
Location: NYC
Joined: November 22, 2003

What you are finding out is that there are countless ways to skin this cat.

Qobuz publishes an API to allow other developers to access their content, in pretty much the same fashion as their native app. Volumio uses this API to gain access and provides the UI through a browser on a phone, tablet or computer. On a Linux computer such as a Raspberry Pi you need some sort of interface or you may be able to use the Linux browser to access it the same way you would on an Intel PC or Mac. On my Mac I use Audirvana, which implemented its own version through the API. Roon uses it as well wherever it is running.

You could plug your PC/Laptop into your DAC with a USB cable, and you'd likely be happy with that too. The limitation there is the wire and this depends on where you sit relative to your system. Another alternative is to use the Qobuz app on your PC/Laptop and use UPnP to Volumio on the RPi, just creating a wifi bridge. Volumio in this case is just acting as a receiver and you never really need to use the Volumio UI through a browser as it is set and forget.

If you go on your phone and go to the audio output selector (varies by phone) you will see Volumio as an option. If you have an iPhone it is seeing it as an Airplay device. If you have an Android phone it is seeing it as UPnP.

There is other software that will run on the RPi, such as PcP, but I started with Volumio and everything else I tried was more complicated. From the time I received my first RPi, something I'd never used before nor Linux, to the time I played the first music through it was about half an hour and that included the unboxing. And it just worked.

The one catch is that power supplies do make a difference with RPi and DACs. I use battery on mine. A switching supply always makes more noise and you'll hear that through a muddier sound.

And yes, bits are bits. While I've played with digital cables, they don't make a difference to my ears.

RE: OK so Volumio = RPI?, posted on April 17, 2023 at 11:30:47

Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004

Nice score on the Lynx. I might not have read everything, but some of those lynx cards are limited on the AES output. So it might output less than it is rated...

Also, I found the lynx to benefit from anything that was done to the power situation in the computer, like underclocking and undervolting. I know that makes no sense but try some stuff. Cics had a whole thing of tweaks that could be done. And I found my Lynx 2 to benefit from some RF shielding as well. And if you toast it Lynx will fix it for reasonable prices, assuming they can if its that old.

Cut to razor sounding violins

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