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NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi

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Posted on October 23, 2021 at 06:00:38
Crebert
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Posts: 40
Location: NSW - Australia
Joined: February 11, 2002
I currently store my .flac files on a drive d: on my windows PC. the
LMS on PicorePlayer+Rpi finds it using the usual methods the directory path etc. I am thinking about getting a NAS, and want to know what brand/type of NAS would be most suited to this setup. I've seen others in AA mention this topic. So, I'd appreciate some helpful suggestions for this. Some of you have mentioned installing LMS on the NAS, I'll probably need to get advice on doing that, but I can get some help. anyhow, I'll just use it (The NAS) as an IP address from LMS and that should do it. but what NAS should I get people?
thanks, in advance. Ed. (From Oz)

 

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RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 23, 2021 at 07:19:40
Daveslater
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If you are running LMS on your Picoreplayer you don't even need a NAS A router with a USB connection to which you connect a USB hard drive would suffice.

 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 23, 2021 at 14:01:16
Cut-Throat
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NAS units are not that expensive for a 2 Bay System... This will give you RAID protection, if one of them fails....

I like Synology NAS units, as their Software is easy to use and reliable.



 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 23, 2021 at 21:33:23
AbeCollins
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Synology and QNAP NAS are popular. I know that you're asking about LMS but if you ever plan to run Roon Core on a NAS it has to be on an Intel or AMD processor.... so skip any models that use a lower-end processor.

That being said, I thought LMS had some issues with being installed on NAS as the software wasn't being updated, or something like that. I don't have the details but inmate Cut-Throat should know more.

My Synology DS-718+ running Roon Core:

There's a newer model now called the DS-720+





 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 24, 2021 at 06:17:11
E-Stat
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Like C-T and Abe, I use Synology (718+) to drive LMS.

Which works fine with the final version of their 6x operating system. The gotcha is they moved to a different version of PERL which no longer supports LMS. Mine works fine with the operable version. There is a solution by moving to a different container, but I haven't bothered to change over. Both of the other guys moved to DSM7, but find no benefit and one prefers the older UI.

 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 25, 2021 at 09:31:01
soundchekk
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Posts: 2426
Joined: July 11, 2007
You IMO don't need a NAS...

...if you stay well below 2TB

...and you gonna use it for audio only


I run a 2TB SSD attached to an RPI4 myself and couldn't be happier.

If you really look for a NAS like solution , there are even solutions out there of how to run an RPI4 as NAS.


Don't waste your time and money on traditional NAS. There are a lot of downsides to it.

Those who recommend NAS over here, usually store all kind of data on it and run data and collections far greater than 2TB.

If ultimate sound-quality is your goal, you should go for local data anyhow.

Don't source them over local network services. That's not the case for web audio streaming services btw.


Good luck.





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blog latest >> The Audio Streaming Series - tuning kit pCP

 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 25, 2021 at 10:00:48
AbeCollins
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As soundchekk says, you don't need a NAS but if you want a NAS go for it! There are several ways to configure a system to sound fantastic along with convenience.

I use a NAS dedicated to audio for a few reasons:

- All of my music is stored in one central location with a redundant mirrored disk in the RAID should one disk go bad. The NAS is also backed up to an external USB disk automatically on a nightly basis in case the entire NAS goes down. All of this is automated w/o needing any user interaction.

- The NAS is located AWAY from my listening room not taking up any audio rack space or creating any noise. In fact, the NAS is in the basement utility room.

- With music files centralized on NAS I can stream over my home network Ethernet or WiFi to a multitude of streaming devices in different locations in our home w/o having to maintain multiple file copies on each device for each location. And of course, I can select what music is being played to each location (same tune in perfect sync, or different tunes) using a portable iPad as remote control.

- My CD rips that I do on my Mac are automatically transferred over the network to the central NAS. No need to copy or move files around manually. All of my latest CD rips are immediately available to play to any streaming device in various parts of our home.

And yes, the whole setup sounds fantastic.... AND it is convenient and reliable.




 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 25, 2021 at 11:42:53
Cut-Throat
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Agree.. Getting a NAS was one of the best things I've done, as far as organizing files, backup etc... We have about 4 computers around the house for a few people.. Storing Pictures and and other documents was made far simpler. And the benefit of RAID protection is very nice to have. The Music is secondary by a long shot...

We take a lot of pictures on our phones and soon as we take them (anywhere in the World), they are immediately downloaded to my NAS (I don't want them on someone else's cloud)



 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 25, 2021 at 15:24:59
Crebert
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Posts: 40
Location: NSW - Australia
Joined: February 11, 2002
I just had One Seagate Mechanical Drive D:\\ (2TB) die on me, it had my e mails (20 yrs) and movies on it. Lucky I backed up my .flac archive onto a external drive. Now I got a mate trying to do data recovery using Linux (Debian) tools. Hope he can do something. the seagate was 7 years old. So now, the NAS idea is just to back up all that data. & maybe, I'll hook the LMS to the nas so that I might have music without the PC being turned on. Maybe next also, could be to connect the Rpi to a USB storage drive as Dave Slater mentions. (using CIFS)I now have 2 Rpi's in the house, (3 and 4) One has a Khadas toneboard and the 3 has a Piano 2.1. hat.

Thanks for all the responses much appreciated. Edward.(from Oz)

 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 25, 2021 at 15:31:01
Cut-Throat
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I no longer run LMS on my NAS... I could, but I don't want to... I do what the PiCorePlayer Developers do... They run it on an Rpi.... I find it faster and it has no software dependencies like the NAS. So, it sits next to my router in the back room and I don't think about it....



 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 26, 2021 at 00:48:23
fmak
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Good advice

 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 26, 2021 at 05:36:01
zacster
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Location: NYC
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I let Qobuz be my NAS, ever expanding and in otherwise unavailable hi-res in many cases...

 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 26, 2021 at 06:02:10
Cut-Throat
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Pretty much the same as me.... I've got over 5,000 albums on my NAS, which hardly ever get visited.

With that Said, my NAS is one of the most important devices in my home (Just not for Music however).



 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 26, 2021 at 09:56:14
Yep.

It's pretty straightforward/cheap to configure an RPi4 with SSD and use OpenMediaVault (or similar) as an NAS.

My setup is an RPi4 and 1Tb M.2 stick with a Geekworm shield.

Dave.

 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 26, 2021 at 14:01:38
Cut-Throat
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One of the reasons I enjoy my Synology NAS so much is the software. I am guessing that not much is available with this 'Pi Solution' ??????

The Backup Software and Auto Phone Photo Downloads and Raid Protection are what make the Synology NAS invaluable to myself. The ability to access files is a given. Can you access files inside Windows applications with the Rpi NAS? (Map files into Windows Explorer)




 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 27, 2021 at 01:59:07
soundchekk
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Your use-case is a complete different one.

Keep in mind. Most people over here look for an audio solution. Not a phone-photo & totally nonsense raid solution.

And beside that, especially the SW on these NAS devices, I consider the awful part of it.


You're much more flexible with a PI based solution.


Your stuff is a total overkill for those who just want to keep some tracks on a SSD.

And again. IMO performance and soundwise I would not recommend a NAS solution.

Beside that. If I'd have multiple terrabytes of typically vastly chaotic audio-collections (wildly merged with crappy tagging and cover art), I'd for sure suggest to better sign up for Qobuz or alike.

The efforts to setup and maintain a huge collection incl backup media IMO is not worth the effort, compared to the price you pay for a streaming service.


Enjoy.






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blog latest >> The Audio Streaming Series - tuning kit pCP

 

Why are you so, posted on October 27, 2021 at 06:33:02
AbeCollins
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Why are you so opposed to ANY solution that YOU did not recommend? Is YOUR solution the ONLY right solution?





 

Even worse! --- I am using a NAS for exactly what it was intended for! .......nt, posted on October 27, 2021 at 08:33:57
Cut-Throat
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nt



 

Backups shouldn't be a matter of luck, posted on October 27, 2021 at 09:44:06
Feanor
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Not saying that it was actually "luck" in your case.

What I've told people for decades is, "All hard drives eventually fail".



Dmitri Shostakovich

 

I thoroughly enjoy Qobuz but..., posted on October 27, 2021 at 10:09:12
E-Stat
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my local library contains lots of titles not in their catalog.

 

You must be joking!! You didn't audiophile tweak it ?, posted on October 27, 2021 at 10:10:45
AbeCollins
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.

 

RE: Why are you so, posted on October 27, 2021 at 10:50:01
soundchekk
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"Why are you so opposed to ANY solution that YOU did not recommend? Is YOUR solution the ONLY right solution?"


First of all. You're just talking about yourself here. And ANY of YOUR solutions!!!

"ANY" would imply that I read all your stuff. I don't.

"SOLUTION". You're not offering solutions - btw. I haven't seen one. None of us does.
We're all giving hints or little advise about this or that. And that's about it.
That means there's nothing to "OPPOSE" on the solution side.


You need to understand and accept though that there are people out there approaching things differently than you.
You need to understand and accept that there are people out there with a different experience and skill
level than yours.


And all this implies that this forum can offer a huge variety of options for people seeking advice.

Which is a great thing. And which keeps such a forum running.


So. Instead of getting personal, you better try to understand that. You can let your handkerchief dry now.


All the best.


PS: I'd be more than happy if the hints or advise I'm giving get challenged. Because that's how
progress is made.



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blog latest >> The Audio Streaming Series - tuning kit pCP

 

Each of us has our own approach, posted on October 27, 2021 at 10:52:24
E-Stat
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My key objectives are isolation (both RFI/AC) and fault tolerance. Using the simplest architecture to support a family of end points.

I would really rather not have storage strapped to the player like Soundchek's approach! And since LMS feeds eight different music/video players, the last thing I want is duplicated local storage for each. ;)

My NAS lives on a different floor of the house than the primary system connected to a different main breaker load panel. Modem and router powered by linear power supplies. CAT6 to player terminated with Tripp-Lite ethernet network isolator. ultraRendu powered by galvanically isolated LPS 1.2 ultracapacitors.

And I do store all my data on the mirrored NAS including video content which is also streamed via LMS to many parts of the manse. C-T talks about speed(?), but I find the J3455 processor (which benches almost twice as fast as his previously used 916's N3710) takes merely 19 seconds to scan new content. Add another computer and cable to *potentially* save a couple seconds?

 

RE: Why are you so, posted on October 27, 2021 at 13:21:58
AbeCollins
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"You need to understand and accept though that there are people out there approaching things differently than you."

Look in the mirror soundchekk !!

The O.P. asked SPECIFICALLY about NAS solutions and a few of us answered his question. Only YOU told him he doesn't need one and shouldn't use one.

So who's not understanding and accepting approaches different than yours? It's always the same thing with you.... your way is the only right way. Look in the mirror dude! SMH



 

RE: I thoroughly enjoy Qobuz but..., posted on October 27, 2021 at 19:31:11
zacster
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Posts: 2179
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and Qobuz contains LOTS of titles not in my local library.

But then I'd also ask is there any need for anything more than what they don't have? I've found no need to rip anything on the top 1000 classic rock songs of all time list, or any of the albums that contain them. They are all there except for one, Bob Seger. This isn't the only list that counts of course but it represents what I mostly find, it is all there except for the obscure.

 

RE: I thoroughly enjoy Qobuz but..., posted on October 28, 2021 at 05:22:15
E-Stat
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But then I'd also ask is there any need for anything more than what they don't have?

Not from my perspective. Missing content alone is the big problem for those whose musical tastes are not fully served. They already deliver high enough resolution.

 

RE: I thoroughly enjoy Qobuz but..., posted on October 28, 2021 at 07:20:28
AbeCollins
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I subscribe to Qobuz and Tidal and between them, I think they have 99.9% of what is already in my library. But unless one of these services has the album in hi-res, I'll play from my local library if its already there.... or they might have a remaster or another version that I'll add side by side with what I already have.

That being said, Roon gives me a "single pane of glass" view into my library combined with what's in Tidal and Qobuz. And I can search both services and my own library at the same time using Roon.

So I did a search for Bob Seger from within Roon. It appears that Tidal has a handful of his albums but just one showed up in Qobuz. See the streaming service logo embedded in each album cover thumb nail image. I also have one of his albums already in my library in lossless ALAC format.

Roon searches Tidal & Qobuz for "Bob Seger". Results:



 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 28, 2021 at 07:23:02
double28
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I will stir up a tempest in a tea pot...

Back in the Dark Ages when I had a Macbook, NAS, JRiver, and all sorts of other stuff, I spent hundreds of hours ripping CDs to hard drives. It seemed like as much time was spent reconfiguring/searching/relabeling/rebooting trying to keep the NAS/Mac combo in sequence and running as time was spent listing to music. During one frightful Saturday afternoon, while trying to get the Mac to SEE the NAS my son walks in and asks why go through all the headaches when everything I want to listen to (accurately 99.7865354656236367476%) is already on Qobuz and Tidal. Thirty seconds later I concluded that my son is smarter than I am and shit canned the whole mess and began streaming and haven't looked back for a millisecond. Some of us really enjoy messing with computers and speak the language (including messing with Pi's) and others do not want the hassle or lack the skills. I am in the latter half.

 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 28, 2021 at 07:38:57
AbeCollins
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You make a very valid point with streaming services. I agree, with a twist.

I like the convenience of having both of my streaming services and all of my own album rips accessible and searchable in a "single pane of glass" view on my iPad or Mac. To do this, I have all my album rips on a NAS and I subscribe to Tidal and Qobuz. I use Roon to manage it all in a single view. No need to exit Roon, launch the Qobuz app, or exit Qobuz and launch the Tidal app. It's all there in one view within Roon.

So I do all three: local music library, Qobuz music, and Tidal music wrapped up in Roon for management and control.


 

It's all on LMS as well, Tidal, Qobuz, Personal Library, Tunein Radio etc. etc. etc.....nt, posted on October 28, 2021 at 08:39:30
Cut-Throat
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nt



 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 28, 2021 at 08:50:10
Gary
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I have only one problem with this approach: Just because a track is currently available on a streaming service doesn't mean that will always be the case.

 

Is it in one screen w/o switching? , posted on October 28, 2021 at 08:53:45
AbeCollins
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Can you view all your album covers from Tidal, Qobuz, and Local library in one screen w/o switching any apps?

Do you have a screen shot image to post ?



 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 28, 2021 at 08:57:20
AbeCollins
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" I have only one problem with this approach: Just because a track is currently available on a streaming service doesn't mean that will always be the case."

Good point, especially if it's an obscure artist / track but I would bet that 99% of the time (or more), this is a non-issue. And if your one or two favorite tracks disappear from your streaming service, try a competing service ;-)

I would bet that any of these streaming services has more albums and tracks to our taste than anyone of us will amass in our personal collection in a lifetime.




 

RE: Is it in one screen w/o switching? , posted on October 28, 2021 at 09:13:28
Cut-Throat
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As you had indicated in your previous post... With LMS, do not have to Go to the Tidal App, Qobuz App etc... It's all on the LMS Screen, No switching Apps.

It is NOT like Roon, which I am glad. The search commands are all entered from ONE Screen.... But I prefer the LMS Organization over Roon. I do not want them Scrambled together. I can certainly select and mix tracks in the Play Queue from Many different Streaming Sources or My Music Library.







 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 28, 2021 at 09:15:00
double28
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I get that 100% and E-Stat brings this up as well further below.

My point is: I did the full blown rip of CD's and select albums and have them stored on at least 4 hard drives and a NAS. However, when the occasional "glitch" does pop up, I don't want to deal with it and have a hand wringing time fiddling with hardware and software issues just to have some esoteric (to me) tunes that Tidal or Qobuz do not offer. At my stage in life I can happily live without the songs and heartburn thus spending time pursuing endeavors which do bring pleasure to my heart.

In a nutshell, any unavailable tunes on Tidal or Qobuz that I cannot live without, then the CD player or turntable will have to come out of hiding.

 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 28, 2021 at 09:19:34
Gary
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Hi Abe,

You're right that this doesn't happen very often. Still, here's an example: There's a track on Neil Finn's "Try Whistling This" album that I like. The track is "Twisty Bass". I think I first heard it on Radio Paradise. That album was available on Qobuz and Spotify at the time. I don't know about Tidal as I don't subscribe. One day it was just gone on both Qobuz and Spotify. Both the album and the track had been removed.

I listen to a lot of stuff on Qobuz that might be considered by some to be obscure. I can't really afford to buy all of it. I do try to acquire the stuff I really don't want to disappear. But yes, there's enough on Qobuz alone to keep me listening for the remainder of my life.

 

RE: Is it in one screen w/o switching? , posted on October 28, 2021 at 11:11:42
AbeCollins
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Ah OK. It's definitely different than the Roon view. I search from a single search field and Roon searches my streaming services and my local library... all in one (but there is the option to search each individually). I also display all the albums in a single aggregate view (single pane of glass) that includes my local albums as well as the albums selected from my streaming services.

It appears that you have to "browse on Qobuz", "browse on Tidal", etc. almost like using separate apps. I can do that within Roon but I prefer not to. Personal preference I suppose but I like the tighter integration in Roon with ability to search all in one and display and browse all in one view.

Local, Tidal, and Qobuz albums all in one view and scrollable with swipe-up or swipe-down on iPad.

And each album cover has the streaming service logo embedded so you know if it's your local album or from a service.


 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 28, 2021 at 11:37:48
AbeCollins
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I do prefer a hybrid approach of having ones own albums ripped to a computer or NAS -along with- a streaming service or two. But I'm finding that most of what I have ripped is also available on the streaming services. What if there's an internet outage? At least with one's own rips we don't care if the internet goes down ;-)



 

Searching Music is a very small part of PiCorePlayer for myself ............, posted on October 28, 2021 at 11:49:24
Cut-Throat
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It's the myriad of other capabilities that I prefer. I've tried Roon a couple times.



 

RE: NAS to use with PiCorePlayer /Rpi, posted on October 28, 2021 at 18:47:19
zacster
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There are a lot of scenarios that may interrupt your listening but they are so rare that I just can't be bothered worrying about them. The power could go out too and then nothing will work except the battery powered sources and those will run out too.

When my internet goes down (which it doesn't) I'll pull out the LPs. Tubes and turntables, the only REAL way to listen.

 

RE: I thoroughly enjoy Qobuz but..., posted on October 29, 2021 at 04:23:39
zacster
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Here's another big plus for Qobuz. Today is Friday and every Friday is "New Music Friday". So I just went in and found that last Friday (I've been very busy this week) they listed new hi-res versions of Pink Floyd. They were one of the few classic rock bands that weren't available in hi-res, and well, now they are! "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" in 24/192 is playing right now. (Softly, it is only 7am)

And don't get me wrong, I listen to all kinds of music and every Friday is like walking into Tower Records and buying every new LP on the racks. But back in that day when I did go to Tower Records I always hated buying something unheard and then being disappointed. Now at least all you've done is click.

 

RE: Searching Music is a very small part of PiCorePlayer for myself ............, posted on October 29, 2021 at 05:47:44
AbeCollins
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Everyone has their preferences and I'm just accustomed to Roon. I could never find a good control app on iOS for the others. I think the main PcP attraction for me might be in a compact portable setup like you have for travel.



 

RE: I thoroughly enjoy Qobuz but..., posted on October 29, 2021 at 12:25:02
AbeCollins
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I should pay closer attention to those "New Music Friday" announcements! I didn't know about the new hi-res Pink Floyd releases until I read an email ad from HDTracks inviting me to download. Each album ranged from $23 - $30 depending on resolution. No thank you, I'll search Qobuz instead ;-)



 

RE: I thoroughly enjoy Qobuz but..., posted on October 29, 2021 at 14:40:16
zacster
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It isn't an official announcement, that was my name for it. But every Friday one of the first things I do is scan through the new listings by genre. Sometimes there are lots and some days not that many. It'll take all week to go through them when there are a lot and then a new batch will drop. This is one reason why I don't get wanting a NAS. There is so much out there that I don't get back to old favorites very often.

 

Wanting a NAS has very little to do with Audio ................, posted on October 29, 2021 at 16:08:32
Cut-Throat
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" This is one reason why I don't get wanting a NAS."

Although, I have my Music Library stored on it, I rarely listen to it.... The NAS is used for Disk Storage and Backup and Sharing of Documents. Whether they be Photos, Spreadsheets, Letters, Medical Documents, Insurance Documents, Receipts, and yes Music Albums..... etc. etc. etc. ---

So, as I said before... I do most all of my Listening with Qobuz, but that hardly negates the Value of my NAS....

Do you 'Get it' Now ??




 

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