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Music files with Roon

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Posted on April 16, 2021 at 04:33:23
dbphd
Audiophile

Posts: 1674
Location: Montecito, CA
Joined: September 6, 2006
 Are items in my library from Qobuz or Tidal streamed in over the internet as I play them or stored on my computer? Roon integrates them with items I've ripped from CDs leading me to imagine they might be downloaded when added to my library. Music in the library seems to play immediately after being selected. But I suspect they're streamed so the provider retains control.

db

 

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RE: Music files with Roon, posted on April 16, 2021 at 06:27:06
RhythmDevil
Audiophile

Posts: 229
Joined: November 23, 2014
 A little bit of knowledge in my case might be dangerous, but my impression is that while the music tracks themselves remain at the streaming service (and are streamed on demand), when you add tracks/albums to your library, Roon downloads meta-data into its own local database on your machine. At least, at times when my connection to Tidal is down, my genre searches and Roon suggestions return items added to my library that will not play due to the missing connection.

With that said, some services do permit members to download and store tracks locally for use on portable devices; this generally requires more effort than just "add to my library".


Cerebrate!

 

+1 Good explanation , posted on April 16, 2021 at 16:38:47
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I have Roon Core on my NAS and control playback with Roon Remote on my iPad.

I subscribe to Tidal and Qobuz which integrate with Roon but only my own CD rips and hi-res downloads ever reside on the NAS. Using Roon and Roon Remote allow me to view all of my local albums on NAS as well as albums that I selected from Quobuz and Tidal.... all in a nicely integrated "single pane of glass" view on the iPad screen, along with the deep meta data the Roon is famous for.

I rarely ever use the Tidal app or Qobuz app because Roon does a much better job with the user interface IMHO. However, Roon does not have an "offline mode" as do the Tidal and Qobuz apps. Offline mode allows you to download actual album tracks (files) to your smartphone or tablet so when you travel you don't have to consume your cellular data plan to stream. Even if you have an unlimited data plan, downloading the music locally can be advantageous for those times that you might not be within range of a cellular tower.

Oh, and about those files that get downloaded to the smartphone in offline mode, you have to login to the streaming service and authenticate at least periodically like every 30-days or whatnot. If you don't, none of the music files for offline listening will be playable. So no, you can't download thousands of albums and steal them ;-)

I use offline mode in Tidal and Qobuz on my iPhone for road trips. The iPhone is connected to the car's infotainment system digitally (over an Apple Lightning to USB cable) so the DAC in the infotainment system is used rather than the DAC and analog out from the iPhone. In this setup the music is controlled from the infotainment system touch screen and steering wheel buttons.




 

RE: +1 Good explanation , posted on April 17, 2021 at 07:10:22
zacster
Audiophile

Posts: 2179
Location: NYC
Joined: November 22, 2003
 In your car, is the music being read as files or is the service being controlled on the phone from your touchscreen? My new car does NOT allow a USB audio stream to be fed through its USB input. In USB terminology the entertainment system is a host, not a device, and the phone is also a host and the two don't communicate that way. The phone expects an audio device when streaming, usually a DAC. The car is a Tesla and there are no good options that I've found to stream hi-res music into it as Tesla's system is completely closed for safety reasons since the same unit controls the car.

I'm going to look for a lightning to USB-C cable to try things. I've got one somewhere.

 

Apple CarPlay / Android Auto on the car Navigation screen, posted on April 17, 2021 at 10:43:41
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I can control music playback from my phone or on the navigation screen.

My car has Apple CarPlay and Android Auto capabilities. It also has several USB ports but one port is dedicated for interfacing with smartphones and tablets.

When I plug-in my iPhone (or iPad) and launch CarPlay, most of the infotainment display is taken over with App icons from my iPhone. I place my most used Apps on the first page and swipe the display to get to more Apps. Some of the Apps I have set up in the infotainment display include, Apple Maps, Google Maps, Waze, iMessages, Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, Amazon Music, etc.

If I launch a music App like Tidal on the nav screen, I can play anything that I have locally on the iPhone that I downloaded for "offline" playback, or I can stream the entire Tidal library over the cellular network. This includes playlists that I have setup in Tidal. Same for Qobuz. Interfacing with the music is done through the App on the infotainment/nav screen and/or steering wheel mounted controls.

However, once music is playing via the App, the App doesn't have to remain on the screen. It can be background by another App. I can have Google Maps up while music is playing. If I want to skip a song I just use a steering wheel control. If I have a route set in Google Maps and a turn is coming up, Google Maps will speak over the music and then the music will resume. Similarly, if I get a text message, I'll get a brief alert and can choose to have that text read to me over the music or I can ignore it.

I suppose I can try plugging a USB thumb drive into that dedicated USB port meant for smartphones and see what happens. I'm not sure if the infotainment system will see it as folders full of music files. I've never tried it because I enjoy having the actual music Apps available as mentioned above.


 

RE: Apple CarPlay / Android Auto on the car Navigation screen, posted on April 18, 2021 at 09:26:22
zacster
Audiophile

Posts: 2179
Location: NYC
Joined: November 22, 2003
 The problem is that Elon Musk was not going to allow anyone else to control his baby, especially not Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook or Microsoft. They have made it especially difficult to add things on. Carplay and Android auto are not implemented on Teslas. There are some aftermarket products that you can use for CarPlay but ultimately they are just front ends for the same Bluetooth connection I can use from my phone directly. I use hi-res Qobuz on my phone but BT ultimately compresses it in some way. It doesn't sound bad, just not the same hi-res I would get from a real DAC.

I tried using a cable from my phone, through a camera adapter, into the USB-C port. It didn't work.

 

RE: Apple CarPlay / Android Auto on the car Navigation screen, posted on April 18, 2021 at 16:43:35
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Does the Tesla have an AUX 3.5mm audio jack for the car stereo system? If so, you can use a Lightning to 3.5mm Adapter cable for iPhone. For other phones a simple audio cable with 3.5mm plugs at each end should do.



 

RE: Apple CarPlay / Android Auto on the car Navigation screen, posted on April 18, 2021 at 16:57:28
zacster
Audiophile

Posts: 2179
Location: NYC
Joined: November 22, 2003
 That's a big NO. It was one of the things that Musk didn't want in the car. I used a camera adapter and a Dragonfly Black in my old car into an aux in. That sounded great with Qobuz in hi-res on my phone. My daughter liked it so much that way she took it from me as soon as I sold the old car and now she is using it. It also allowed for simultaneous charging and music play with the adapter. In fact, this is exactly what I wanted to do in the Tesla. The DF Black sounds so much better than the built in DAC in either the phone or the car.

I've thought about trying to configure a Raspberry Pi to act as an intermediary between the phone and the USB in but the problem with that is the car only will read a mass storage USB device. I'd have to intercept the audio stream and write it to storage while the car is reading the storage in real-time, and can somehow understand the file structure in flux. I saw how a Pi Zero W can be made to continuously write to a 2gb file and present it as a USB mass storage device while reading the file over the wifi, that would still leave the task of reading the audio stream over the wifi. It could be done but it is over my head. I'm sure the guys at Volumio could do it. I thought that maybe Audacity could do it.

 

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