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Buy a new dac or stay with my older ac

74.72.189.253
Posted on May 9, 2017 at 05:28:35
digepix
 I'm starting to investigate a new dac for my stereo. I currently use a Scott Nixon tube dac and I'm happy for the most part. Of course you wonder if you're missing out since the Nixon dac is 10 years old. First, I know asynchronous data transfer is all the rage to reduce jitter bt some say it truncates the word length and so it is no longer bit perfect. Does that matter? Do I want DSD along with PCM capability, I have a Sony SACD player but very few discs and I don't feel like I'm missing much. I'm not one of those people who has to keep up with the latest. In fact most of my stereo is over 20 years old and with periodic maintenance it may outlive me.

The question is do I live with my Nixon dac or do I need to spend money to get something I may not need?

 

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RE: Buy a new dac or stay with my older ac, posted on May 9, 2017 at 06:20:12
Roseval
Audiophile

Posts: 1846
Joined: March 31, 2008
 "I know asynchronous data transfer is all the rage to reduce jitter bt some say it truncates the word length and so it is no longer bit perfect."

USB has 3 synchronization modes, async is the best of them.
This has nothing to do with word length.

Older models might be limited to 24 bit / 96 kHz
Very old models and today's very cheap ones might support 16 bit /44/48 only.
A modern USB interface support PCM up to 768 kHz 32-bit and up to DSD512


The Well Tempered Computer

 

The Best Way is, posted on May 9, 2017 at 07:52:38
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37644
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 to borrow a newer or presumably "better" unit and spend some quality time with it in your system and your familiar content. Some dealers will provide short term loans or perhaps find one with a good return policy.

I'm convinced that the analog output stage is as important as the digital conversion stuff itself in the audible results. I see the Nixon unit uses a single dual triode for output purposes.

 

+1 Exactly right, posted on May 9, 2017 at 08:24:45
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46291
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Too many audiophiles get hung up on having the latest DAC chip with overly optimistic specs on it's datasheet. These specs are rarely achievable in the finished DAC product.

Even with a great DAC chip the finished DAC can sound pretty bad if it's not well implemented, and the analog stage is oh so important. I would take a DAC with an outdated DAC chip any day over one with a whizbang new chip of the week that is poorly done.

I have a few examples with personal experience that I won't go into here but you're absolutely right!



 

RE: +1 Exactly right, posted on May 9, 2017 at 09:16:50
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001

"I would take a DAC with an outdated DAC chip any day over one with a whizbang new chip of the week that is poorly done."

Yep.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

I went from a Scott Nixon to, posted on May 9, 2017 at 11:24:10
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 8487
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
Contributor
  Since: May 23, 2023
 USB UFO DAC to a Schiit Bifrost Multibit. Schiit also focuses on great analog output stages. I really liked my Nixon DAC, but the Bifrost is better and you get a 15 day return option to try it in your own system with not too much $$ risk.
Gsquared

 

RE: +1 Exactly right, posted on May 9, 2017 at 11:32:00
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 That is the great Audio-GD Master 7 with its old old old 1704 multibit chips. Great dac
Alan

 

RE: I went from a Scott Nixon to, posted on May 9, 2017 at 12:35:04
digepix
 Yeah, I was looking at the BiFrost as a replacement. It's in my price range and I like the 15 day return policy.

 

Wow!, posted on May 9, 2017 at 13:09:54
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37644
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Lots o' Wimas, FETs and a gaggle of R-cores. :)

 

borrow a newer or presumably "better" unit, posted on May 9, 2017 at 13:29:00
Dynobot
 Your DAC is probably newer and better....

.....

 

Sure is a great dac, posted on May 9, 2017 at 13:31:20
Dynobot
 Its a keeper for sure....even decades into the future I can't see getting rid of it.

Although some lucky person did get my Ref 7, the Master 7 little brother for a great bargain.



 

RE: Buy a new dac or stay with my older ac, posted on May 9, 2017 at 13:33:08
Dynobot
 If you like the sound of your SN Dac, do not sell it.

If the itch forces you to get another dac sure but don't get rid of your SN Dac.

No matter what your brain says, your ears will always love it...


 

RE: Buy a new dac or stay with my older ac, posted on May 9, 2017 at 14:30:45
digepix
 I know you're right. I have no complaints, my birthday is coming up and thought I needed to spend $. Maybe not.

 

RE: Buy a new dac or stay with my older ac, posted on May 9, 2017 at 14:47:59
Dynobot
 Get a music subscription to Spotify, Tidal etc.

But a Raspberry Pi and fiddle with different music programs like Volumio, Rune, MoOde etc.

Getting on the Dac marry-go-round is more costly than any of the above


 

RE: Buy a new dac or stay with my older ac, posted on May 9, 2017 at 15:39:18
Dynobot
 Just another bit of history.

I've owned a lot of Dacs over the years, of all different types and price points. The Audiogd dacs as mentioned below...been there done that. In fact I have been buying Audiogd product years before they were even on these peoples radar. I've owed over a dozen different Audiogd products and multiples of every type of Dac they make....except for the current R2R offering.

Tubed, non-tubed, old chips like BB to Wolfson to Sabre...been there done that...even modded a few.

Sure some sound better than others, some are more resolving but at the end of the day good music sounds good on everything. And just because a Dac is more resolving does not mean its more musical or engaging.

 

Not a lot of chip amps in the audio path..., posted on May 9, 2017 at 16:06:21
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 But I got 8 ea. Burr Brown/TI PCM1704U-K multi-bit ladder DAC chips.

Think I can find room to hide a Raspberry Pi in there somewhere and connect directly to the I2S input?

Might try. Guessing they can spare a clean 5V at 1A or so without missing it.










First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Master 7 stays in the main system with USB input but..., posted on May 9, 2017 at 16:17:47
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 The Master 11 lives next to my easy chair in the living room where it mostly is hooked up the the S/PDIF connection of the Pi/HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro.

It's the Master 11 that I would like to figure out how to plant the Raspberry Pi into. Back 40 years ago when I was working 'at the bench' 8 hours a day, it would have been a cake-walk to incorporate the Pi into the Master 11 chassis.

Can you imagine how sweet it would be to plug ethernet in the existing RJ45 jack that currently serves as the RJ45 I2S input, find 5V somewhere inside to power it with, and take the I2S right off the Rasperry Pi main board and solder the lines wherever they are supposed to go inside the DAC and be able to switch to the I2S input port and have it play?

Would be sweet!





First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Buy a new dac or stay with my older ac, posted on May 10, 2017 at 15:32:31
triodesteve
Audiophile

Posts: 803
Location: Walla Walla Washington
Joined: September 4, 2001
 I sill have a dac thats probably even older...maybe the first to sport a usb input? Asynch was not even a thought in Gordon's brain yet.
A few years back I started using a usb to spdif convertor ( A JKenny) and it was indeed a better sounding way to get a signal into the dac.

So on the usb front things have improved.....but the dac still sounds great. Looks like for you its usb or bust?

 

RE: Buy a new dac or stay with my older ac, posted on May 10, 2017 at 15:54:49
digepix
 I have another input on my Muse dac that I like very much. The thought has crossed my mind to get a usb to spdif converter and put the Muse into service. I also have PS Audio Ultralink dac and I have a Monarchy DIP to reduce jitter if that helps.

 

RE: Buy a new dac or stay with my older ac, posted on May 10, 2017 at 16:01:00
triodesteve
Audiophile

Posts: 803
Location: Walla Walla Washington
Joined: September 4, 2001
 Wow...memory lane! There are lots of cheaper usb convertors...the M2tech is a good one...in fact my JKenny is a modded version.

 

RE: Buy a new dac or stay with my older ac, posted on May 13, 2017 at 02:12:57
awesterner
Audiophile

Posts: 23
Location: Seattle
Joined: May 7, 2017
 I have the Bifrost. Bought it on sale for 300 bucks. Then I got TWO ODACs (short for Objective DAC). Look up (as in research) the ODAC. It was double-blind tested against a 2400-dollar "reference" DAC, the Zonar sound card, and the RealTek chipset (found in most PC motherboards). The ODAC was indistinguishable from the 2400-dollar reference DAC. I found it to be superior to the Bifrost, and at 1/3 the cost. Do your research, your own due diligence, and make an informed choice.

 

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