OTL Asylum

OTL, Output Transformerless Amplifier User Group.

Return to OTL Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

6moons describes Atma-Sphere legal situation...

24.116.190.59
Posted on October 18, 2004 at 10:38:19
Wellfed
 It's really too bad this situation panned out this way. Glacier would do well to make amends quickly for their ruthless behavior IME. Whether it is their legal right, or not, shafting Ralph Karsten is a foolish mistake.

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
Re: 6moons describes Atma-Sphere legal situation..., posted on October 18, 2004 at 12:48:34
cmathes
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Location: New Orleans
Joined: December 12, 2002
 This is just another example of why I like 6moons...

 

Shafting???, posted on October 18, 2004 at 13:12:50
RKPhillips
Audiophile

Posts: 89
Joined: July 15, 2002
 If you sell your company you've built with own hands and don't have a lawyer review it for something as basic as a non-compete you haven't been shafted - you're just foolish.

I'm sure there is more to this story than the basic report but to claim that something was buried in legalese mumbo jumbo is naive and reckless, particularly when dollar amounts mentioned in the article are at stake.

 

MP3's, iPod, iTunes etc. may eventually lead to further casualties beyond Atma-Sphere, posted on October 18, 2004 at 13:32:03
Thom Y
Audiophile

Posts: 75
Location: Canada
Joined: June 25, 2004
 Perhaps, a generalization, but I think changing demographics are a real concern. I see the music industry is heading increasingly towards portability and downloading, etc., with iTunes and iPod being the prefered legal method of buying and listening to contemporary music for many music lovers younger than me ... in fact, I remember reading a recent article by John Mayer suggesting that recording producers and engineers are increasingly mixing/engineering new music specifically for the iPod world, often on laptops etc ... (the hell with how it will sound on an OTL with SOTA speakers etc.)

... therefore, I suspect we may see more small boutique or cottage industries that are producing tube amps go the way of Atma-sphere, as they will find it difficult to survive without the deep pockets of a larger investor as the number of critical audio listeners falls. Even, the HK/ML situation suggests that deep pockets is no guarantee in this audio environment.

Bottom line, for people like me about to invest in high-end tube equipment, we are at some risk in deciding which small company to invest 10 - 20K for a new amplifier. One has no guarantee the company or designer will be around to honor the warranty over the next number of years. caveat emptor ... at least I always have my iPod if my new tube amp dies and the company goes the way of the dodo.

 

Re: MP3's, iPod, iTunes etc. may eventually lead to further casualties beyond Atma-Sphere, posted on October 18, 2004 at 13:54:18
ABhagan


 
You have a point, however amps like these are for people with refined listening skills, people that buy iPods would never buy a high-end amp, even if they were no iPods and in fact, it may inadvertently help the industry.

 

Re: MP3's, iPod, iTunes etc. may eventually lead to further casualties beyond Atma-Sphere, posted on October 18, 2004 at 14:00:14
Thom Y
Audiophile

Posts: 75
Location: Canada
Joined: June 25, 2004
 well, I am the exception ... I have two iPods ... I listen to primarily alternative rock, indie rock, rock, alt.country with some classical/jazz as well. Yet, I am now finding myself buying a high-end tube amp to get more out of this music than my iPod and Shure in-ear monitors will allow.

 

Re: MP3's, iPod, iTunes etc. may eventually lead to further casualties beyond Atma-Sphere, posted on October 18, 2004 at 14:10:52
ABhagan


 
You're not really the exception, this is what I would have expected.
You ever hear the saying, no matter how much things change, it always remains the same, an iPod is today's transistor radio of the 50's and 60's, boom box of the 70's and 80's and portable CD players of the 90's.

Human nature to want more, the best you can afford.

 

And a good thing it would be, posted on October 18, 2004 at 14:15:51
Jake-LA


 
Fact is, people with heavy, expensive, hot OTL amps like having heavy, expensive, hot OTL amps more than they like music.

A year or so ago I got fed up with all this "high end" bullshit, sold my M60s and my turntable with its stupid $1000 cartridge and now stream all my music from my computer hard drive into a $300 digital amp. I can't say that the sound is better, but I can say it's not noticeably worse.

It's a shame what happened to Mr. Karsten, though. I had several occasions to call him with questions and he was always very helpful.

It's a double shame that a company with such beautiful products -- and some of the AS amps are works of art -- is now run by repulsive creeps who pose third-rate tool company calendar girls next to their butt-ugly speakers.

 

Re: MP3's, iPod, iTunes etc. may eventually lead to further casualties beyond Atma-Sphere, posted on October 18, 2004 at 14:16:31
cmathes
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Location: New Orleans
Joined: December 12, 2002
 Don't forget, the iPod is not a bad musical experience - especially with Etymotic headphones...

 

Re: MP3's, iPod, iTunes etc. may eventually lead to further casualties beyond Atma-Sphere, posted on October 18, 2004 at 14:20:35
ABhagan


 
When I said that people that buy iPod will not buy and amp like Atmas-Spere I meant right away or at first, you know, should I buy a iPod or go for a OTL amp? you know what I mean.
But after awhile as there taste grows, they will expand, want more, they'll hook it up to their computers for music, then they'll buy a integrated, and so on and so on.
Getting to a OTL is usually a long evolutional thing :

 

I couldn't agree with you more about 6moons..., posted on October 18, 2004 at 15:46:50
Wellfed
 ...and Srajan Ebaen in particular.

 

I suspect that with Mark Gilmore being the swing vote..., posted on October 18, 2004 at 15:58:46
Wellfed
 ...Ralph would have no "thought" about being handled in this fashion at the hands of a trusted friend. A bad assumption leading to a regrettable situation to be sure.

 

Fact is, some people..., posted on October 18, 2004 at 16:05:57
Wellfed
 enjoy hot, expensive OTL amps AND music. :-)

Actually I have come to think of Ralph's amps as bargains.

 

Yep, that's what I understand happened. (nt), posted on October 18, 2004 at 17:06:25
Rushton
Reviewer

Posts: 724
Location: Huntsville, AL
Joined: January 5, 2001
Contributor
  Since: October 23, 2004

 

Re: MP3's, iPod, iTunes etc. may eventually lead to further casualties beyond Atma-Sphere, posted on October 18, 2004 at 18:55:24
tcain
Manufacturer

Posts: 1423
Location: Pacific NW
Joined: July 1, 2001
 I don't see a shortage of critical listeners, or true music lovers that know cymbal sound from shine-ola. New music and it's accesability (portability)to me, simply means more enlightened music lovers enjoying more music.

Sure, most of this generation has no use for amps with "lightbulbs" sticking out. Still it's a bit presumptious to make aesthetic and value judgements against a genre's music, production of the music and it's appreciation.

There's been plenty of small "cottage industry" types that have been around as long as Atma-sphere that will continue just fine. The good thing about tubes amps particularly is that they are repairable. An Atma-spere could be repaired by plenty of thermio techs long after your Panny-wasted(broken digital consumer grade amp). It is because of tube circuits dependability and durability that they are enjoying a rennaisance (read: expansion)here as we speak. Solid state has had a good 45-50 years to do away with tubes. Nope, not gonna happen.

TC

 

Re: MP3's, iPod, iTunes etc. may eventually lead to further casualties beyond Atma-Sphere, posted on October 19, 2004 at 08:21:18
Dr Legendre


 
>people that buy iPods would never buy a high-end amp..

Um, I have to take issue with that. First and foremost, the iPod is a music source.. much like conventional cd players and turntables. I've witnessed more people using an iPod to drive a car stereo or small home system, than walking around with the buds in their ears. Sure, the iPod of today is somewhat limited, in terms of the formats it will play (lossy formats, mostly MP3 and AAC) and the output options offered, but this will surely change - sooner, rather than later. As small hard drives increase in capacity, it will become more and more practical to use the lossless codecs such as FLAC and SHN to compress music. And while the current iPod offers only a basic headphone output, there is nothing preventing future versions from having not only this, but line, and coax/optical digital outputs. Gosh sake, my new $69.99 DVD player has these output options. And those who know (and care) will use these new features. Take a look at the Rio Karma, if you want to see a forward-looking portable music player.

The day is not far off (months, or several years) where you will own a piece of electronics, the size of your current CD player, which will contain terrabytes of both lossy and lossless compressed music, of multiple formats, all available at the touch of a remote button. The music will be played out from the unit's internal DAC and line amp, or streamed flawlessly to the off-board DAC of your choice, through the transport medium of your choice. Take it as simple fact, this is how things are going to go; no, vinyl will never die.

But I'd like to address one more point. There are a plethora of MP3 players on the market today, and the iPod is perhaps the most expensive (and featureful) of the lot. Your iPod customer is your classic botique buyer - and the potential hi-end buyer of the future. No company that hopes to survive for the next decade can afford to write off this group as a ship of fools.

There, I've said my piece.

Dr. L
(who can neither teach a class nor cut off a leg)

 

Re: MP3's, iPod, iTunes etc. may eventually lead to further casualties beyond Atma-Sphere, posted on October 19, 2004 at 09:48:39
ABhagan


 
Yes, and I explained myself further in a later statement, what I should have said was they were not in direct competition with each other, but I did further state, that it could help the industry, see my later statements.

 

Re: MP3's, iPod, iTunes etc. may eventually lead to further casualties beyond Atma-Sphere, posted on October 19, 2004 at 09:54:01
ABhagan


 
I hear yah dude :)

 

Re: MP3's, iPod,, posted on October 20, 2004 at 07:53:42
( )


 
dave wilson suposedly used an ipod in the last ces demos

 

Re: Fact is, some people are repulsed by MP3s..., posted on October 24, 2004 at 09:03:59
Mike Mount
Audiophile

Posts: 573
Location: midwest
Joined: September 25, 2004
 Ditto, Well spoken Wellfred!

I think that we each should have multiple heat producing thermionic bliss generators throughout our homes.

I just as soon heat my house (during the winter anyway) and hold it down on the planets surface while sharing musical bliss with the rest of the world. We might happily drift away otherwise. I need MA3s!

I am not getting HOW MP3s have any thing to do with good music or this forum . . . I suppose each their own.

Happier Listening

 

Re: MP3's, iPod, iTunes etc. may eventually lead to further casualties, posted on October 24, 2004 at 09:06:32
Mike Mount
Audiophile

Posts: 573
Location: midwest
Joined: September 25, 2004
 I do own these fabulous listening devices.
might have to give em' a try . . . with this source.

 

Re: Fact is, some people are repulsed by MP3s..., posted on October 24, 2004 at 10:15:50
Legendre
Audiophile

Posts: 503
Location: Saint Paul
Joined: October 22, 2004
 For what it's worth, MP3 may already be dying. The AAC and WMV formats are making serious headway, both of which have the capacity to sound much more natural than an MP3. The OGG/Vorbis format is also considered superior to MP3, but its adoption has been much slower, due in part to its lower profile, and perceived weakness - being a product of the Open Source Software community.

But of course, the main reason that any of these formats have gained popularity is basic convenience. Compressed music files are small, light, easily stored on different media, and of course - easily shared. Were terrabytes of storage and gigabit Internet bandwidth the norm, chances are these formats might never have become popular. But in the recent past, CPU cycles have been a lot cheaper than storage or network bandwidth.

In any event, if you don't like it, don't listen to it. I don't.

"Give me convenience, or give me death!" -- Dead Kennedys

 

Page processed in 0.036 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]