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20 Greatest conductors: for discussion

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Posted on April 2, 2011 at 15:14:09
Tadlo
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 Just arrived in the mail today was the BBC Music magazine with the cover story: The 20 Greatest Conductors of All Time As chosen by today's leading maestros. Don't think everyone here will agree. Here goes:

20 Mackerras
19 Beecham
18 Davis
17 Mravinsky
16 Monteux
15 Haitink
14 Szell
13 Fricsay
12 Barbirolli
11 Gardiner
10 Giulini
09 Boulez
08 Toscanini
07 Furtwangler
06 Rattle
05 Harrnoncourt
04 Karajan
03 Abbado
02 Bernstein
01 Carlos Kleiber

 

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    ...
WOW............, posted on April 2, 2011 at 15:21:50
kavakidd
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 no Munch??
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain

 

No Reiner, no credibility., posted on April 2, 2011 at 15:46:05
Mali
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 This list is nothing but a bad joke.

 

It's a joke em' w/out Jochum. It's a bomb w/out Bohm. nt, posted on April 2, 2011 at 16:00:04
tinear
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 d

 

No Walter--hrumpf! (nt), posted on April 2, 2011 at 17:16:11
C.B.
 -

 

Coates, Weingartner, Koussevitzky, Muck, Stowkowski, Scherchen, Mitropoulos, Mengelberg, Celibidache, Krauss, , posted on April 2, 2011 at 17:29:32
Poles Apart


 
and Zander!

P.A.

 

RE: 20 Greatest conductors: for discussion, posted on April 2, 2011 at 17:58:44
Todd Krieger
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06 Rattle
05 Harrnoncourt
01 Carlos Kleiber

These three conductors wouldn't make my top 50.........

My top 20....... I probably left out a few...............

20 Pierre Boulez
19 Karl Bohm
18 Sir John Barbirolli
17 Klaus Tennstedt
16 Bernard Haitink
15 Pierre Monteux
14 Sir Thomas Beecham
13 Kirill Kondrashin
12 Herbert von Karajan
11 Otto Klemperer
10 Vladimir Ashkenazy
09 Leopold Stokowski
08 Antal Dorati
07 Arturo Toscanini
06 Charles Dutoit
05 George Szell
04 Fritz Reiner
03 Bruno Walter
02 Serge Koussevitzky
01 Wilhelm Furtwangler

 

And no Klemps, Rosbaud, Ancerl, Talich, or Scherchen., posted on April 2, 2011 at 18:29:23
Daverz
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 Missing Walter and Klemperer is bizarre. And any lists that omits Stokowski was obviously made by twits and creeps.

 

Good list, but no . . ., posted on April 2, 2011 at 18:31:38
Mali
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 Bernstein? He has to make anyone's list.

 

RE: Good list, but no . . ., posted on April 2, 2011 at 18:57:32
Todd Krieger
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 Bernstein wouldn't make my top 50....... I thought he was vastly overrated........

 

RE: Good list, but no . . ., posted on April 2, 2011 at 19:40:29
Mali
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 I used to not like him, but in recent years have come to appreciate his genius.

 

Pretty good list..., posted on April 2, 2011 at 19:45:46
C.B.
 I'd take Haitink off, though, just to make room for...

Lenny!

Sorry--couldn't resist.

-

 

My questions, posted on April 2, 2011 at 20:28:52
Tadlo
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 Mackerras, Davis, Boulez, Rattle--Why are these guys on the list?

They are ok, but among the 20 greatest of all time? Really?

What about Walter, Reiner, Stokowsky?

Why were there 5 Brits on the list? Could it be because it is a British magazine? Just askin'

 

RE: 20 Greatest conductors: for discussion, posted on April 2, 2011 at 21:00:24
learsfool
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 Interesting list. I would re-order it, but most of those would indeed be on mine (perhaps Giulini would be at the very top of mine). The most surprising inclusions here, for me, are Fricsay and Rattle (especially so high!) and Barbarolli. Harnoncourt is a more mild surprise.

For me, the most surprising omissions are Reiner, Solti (no one as I type this has even mentioned him yet!), and of currently working conductors, Levine (though apparently he may not be much longer, he has already had to quit in Boston). Many would add Walter to the list as well. Bohm is another that deserves consideration, though I am not sure he would make my top 20. Fans of slow tempi will be quick to argue for Furtwangler and Klemperer. Oh, and another mildly surprising omission is Neville Marriner, another name I don't think has been brought up here yet.

It would be very interesting to know who the conductors were that participated in the survey.

 

What a load..., posted on April 2, 2011 at 21:01:29
vinyl phanatic
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 Notwithstanding the fact that making a list like this is idiotic to start with, I wouldn't even know where to start with what's wrong with this one.

The people at the Brit mags never seem to tire of this crap.

 

RE: 20 Greatest conductors: for discussion, posted on April 2, 2011 at 21:10:02
learsfool
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 Oh, another name to throw out there at least for consideration would be Leinsdorf.

 

Second 20..........., posted on April 2, 2011 at 21:11:25
Todd Krieger
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 In no particular order...........

Rafael Kubelik
Leonard Slatkin
Kurt Masur
Sir Adrian Boult
Myung-Whun Chung
Gunter Wand
Carlo Maria Giulini
Herbert Blomstedt
Eugen Jochum
Sergiu Celibidache
Claudio Abbado
Artur Rodzinski
Neville Marriner
James Levine
Sir Colin Davis
Riccardo Muti
Semyon Bychkov
Valery Gergiev
David Zinman
Christopher Hogwood


 

Interesting that Klemperor didn't get on the list. (nt), posted on April 2, 2011 at 23:52:13
kuma
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 .

 

Yes. He was, in fact, oustanding and vastly over-rated, posted on April 3, 2011 at 02:26:13
Frihed89
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 He was the first pop-star/cross-over conductor/composer, so he got a lot of attention from people and institutions that highbrows didn't like. Hence, vast differences of opinion.

Isn't one way to think about these rankings: the number of pieces for which the conductor been considered the grand master, as opposed to an average score?

 

RE: 20 Greatest conductors: for discussion, posted on April 3, 2011 at 05:46:23
Kas
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I haven't read the article, but it's been referenced elsewhere - isn't it actually a list of those that today's conductors considered the "most influential" rather than "greatest"?

 

Seriously! I mean, isn't being part of this group like being a..., posted on April 3, 2011 at 06:12:10
Huh?


 

...founding father, or something!:-)

 

If so, the "most influential" goes to Toscanini. n/t, posted on April 3, 2011 at 06:14:22
Huh?


 
.

 

It wasn't meant to be a be a "greatest" list, posted on April 3, 2011 at 06:53:32
Thornhill
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 The whole thing started out by asking conductors which conductors influenced them the most. Someone took the results and turned it into a best of list. Just FYI.

 

RE: Seriously! I mean, isn't being part of this group like being a..., posted on April 3, 2011 at 09:50:43
Brian Cheney


 
Always good to see this famous photo from the 1933 Salzburg Festival of the five "General Music Directors of Europe".

Left to right:
Bruno Walter, Arturo Toscanini, Erich Kleiber, Otto Klemperer, Wilhelm Furtwaengler.

There was a time (1928 IIRC) when four of the five were all active in one city, Berlin.

These are truly the greatest conductors of the 20th century, and the most influential.

 

Then you're guilty of misleading by title. nt, posted on April 3, 2011 at 11:11:40
tinear
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 d

 

Absolutely. Walter & Bohm are inexcusable. Jochum, less so, but still..... his Concertgebouw, posted on April 3, 2011 at 11:14:13
tinear
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 period was world-class.

 

RE: It wasn't meant to be a be a "greatest" list, posted on April 3, 2011 at 19:50:31
Tadlo
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 For the record, it wasn't who influenced you most, it was who inspired you most.

 

Right. Thanks. (nt), posted on April 3, 2011 at 20:04:00
Thornhill
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 nt

 

RE: My questions, posted on April 4, 2011 at 02:02:14
garrod
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 Simple really,Mackerras,Davis,Boulez,and Rattle were active and built up a reputation in the UK.The three based in the US you mention did not.

As you say yourself it is a British Magazine.If it was a US magazine the names would be reversed .I do not find this particularly xenophobic.

Davis and Boulez in my own view have earned the right to be there or thereabouts,and yes it does not lend authority to any list that includes Mackerras and omits Walter.As for Rattle, rather not get into that.

 

Mengelwangler Was the Greatest, according to High Fidelity [t], posted on April 4, 2011 at 08:06:56
Mike Porper
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 d

 

This is an April Fool's joke, right?, posted on April 4, 2011 at 09:38:55
M. Lucky
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 You gotta be kidding me. Even by the low standards of these kinds of polls, this is ridiculous.

For starters: I like Carlos Kleiber, but I think it's rather absurd to rate somebody who developed a cult following for conducting a grant total of about 10 pieces over and over in the few concerts he gave simply can't be compared to someone like Toscanini. I don't need to explain why, do I?

And I probably don't even need to mention the ridiculous Brit bias going on here. I mean, Rattle and Barbirolli make the list, but Klemperer doesn't? Really? To say nothing of Munch, Kubelik, Jochum, Walter, Gielen, Tennstedt, or Markevitch, just off top of my head.

I would say that of the 20 named, probably only Beecham, Mravinsky, Szell, Boulez, Toscanini, Furtwangler, Harnoncourt, Karajan, Abbado, and Bernstein deserve to be there, and even a couple of those are debatable. For what it's worth, my top picks would probably be Toscanini, Bernstein, and Szell.

 

It's hard to believe..., posted on April 4, 2011 at 15:12:30
hesson11
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 From that photo, it's hard to believe that Otto Klemperer went on to star as the hilarious and lovable Sergent Schultz in the "Hogan's Heroes" TV series. ;-)
-Bob

 

RE: It's hard to believe..., posted on April 4, 2011 at 16:52:14
Brian Cheney


 
John Banner played the highly ignorant-of-everything prison guard on "Hogan's Heros". Otto's son Werner Klemperer played the inept Kommandant Col Klink on that same show.

The younger Klemperer was an accomplished violinist, pianist, and singer, and appeared on Broadway and in concert in these roles for decades. He also acted on numerous TV shows and in movies.

 

hah hah anyone still like or liked , posted on April 4, 2011 at 18:08:07
docw
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  Since: November 29, 2004
 Living--
Christoph von Dohnanyi
Riccardo Muti
George Prete

Dead or the Late--
Erich Kleiber
Ernest Ansermet
Istvan Kertesz

Check out
Video set featuring many of those included and those omitted in the 20.
vol 1 (most of the heavy hitters are here)
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Conducting-Great-Conductors-Past/dp/B00005V30T

 

RE: It's hard to believe..., posted on April 5, 2011 at 08:24:49
hesson11
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 Damn! I knew that. Then why did I write that? Thanks for the correction, Brian! You were once Bush's vice president, right?

-Bob

 

RE: It's hard to believe..., posted on April 5, 2011 at 09:13:41
Brian Cheney


 
Yes, and I still have much power and influence. I haven't decided what to do about you yet.

 

RE: Lirpa Labs recorded him exclusively....nt, posted on April 9, 2011 at 00:40:13
LongPlay
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Dingle-dongle Frichtghionwanngler. , posted on April 9, 2011 at 23:35:21
Timbo in Oz
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 Mit ze EGGGSTRa Vibraaaaaatoe!








Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

Seriously!?, posted on April 10, 2011 at 00:10:25
Timbo in Oz
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 Where's the babes!!!!!!!!!!!!
Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: Pretty good list..., posted on February 26, 2021 at 07:20:24
svisner
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Posts: 1165
Joined: March 30, 2002
 Agree on "Lenny." Great conductor and educator, which is something a great conductor might well do.

 

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