When Will America Go Broke?

The US Net International Investment Position (NIIP) does not look good.

NIIP is national assets, private and public, minus national and private debt. Using that metric the USA overall owes 65.9% of it's annual GDP.
A little bit worse than Egypt but a little better than Slovakia.

For comparison Germany is 73.2% to the good and Japan 66.6% while little Norway is a massive 238.6% in credit.
(2020 and 2019 numbers)

12/31/2099 at 12:13 AM... N/T, posted on March 8, 2021 at 10:49:26
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31879 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	, "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

The wealth of the people secures the debt., posted on March 8, 2021 at 11:02:12

Goober58
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The question is would the country default on it's debt or confiscate wealth to satisfy it. I'd say there's little chance that leadership (and those who own it) would give up world power to protect the peoples wealth. A law or two may still remain that could protect against confiscation but these kind of decisions are the true purpose behind an originalist SCOTUS - ie. changes to the voter metric came later.

My separate calculations verify that within standard deviation., posted on March 8, 2021 at 11:16:02
free.ranger Audiophile Posts: 16951 Location: Santa Fe, NM Joined: April 8, 2004 Contributor Since: January 7, 2005	And I'm great with standard deviations. My time came up as 12:12, so I think a more alarmist view should be invoked.

RE: When Will America Go Broke?, posted on March 8, 2021 at 11:45:00
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	In the year 2525 If man is still alive If woman can survive They may find In the year 2525 Ain't gonna need to tell the truth That's when the 30 year interest rates will hit 17% again. Get into the Swiss Franc ASAP 51. Not much time left. Be afraid, be very afraid. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: Just who do you think you are, William Miller? (nt), posted on March 8, 2021 at 12:03:56
B. Scarpia

RE: When another country developes a more powerfull drone swarm ....., posted on March 8, 2021 at 12:08:04
hitsware Audiophile Posts: 2636 Location: N. Calif. Joined: December 30, 2004	...

RE: My separate calculations verify that within standard deviation., posted on March 8, 2021 at 12:11:43
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	51 is also great with standard deviations. I can tell you that. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

This already happened!, posted on March 8, 2021 at 12:12:58
jedrider Audiophile Posts: 15167 Location: No. California Joined: December 26, 2003	Should I be worried? I love that song, though :-)

Like the Global Financial Crisis (GFC) of 2007-2008?, posted on March 8, 2021 at 12:38:41
Jay Buridan Audiophile Posts: 10283 Location: Michigan Joined: January 21, 2004	Next time the bubble bursts. Nobody knows exactly when it will happen? "Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. " ― W.C. Fields

RE: When Will America Go Broke?, posted on March 8, 2021 at 12:47:56

pictureguy
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Technically we are so close as to matter not.

I feel very sorry for those under maybe 40 years who will be picking up the tab for all this nuttiness.

In 100 years, an M1 Abrams tank will be worth about a buck-a-ton as scrap.

And as everyone is seeing, the difference between parties as it relates to debt increase is precisely ZERO.

Invest in a ROTH if you care about your personal future. Pay the taxes on it now, since rates will probably never be lower.
California is working on a wealth tax, AB2088 which may or may not be dead-in-the-water. Finance scamers are woking overtime to figure out how to seperate 'the wealth' from their wealthy....
Too much is never enough

RE: Financial scammers?, posted on March 8, 2021 at 14:23:32
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	Well pictureguy, when you say financial scammers soaking the rich are you talking about Dwight Eisenhower and the republican controlled congress.. Nixon...??? So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: When Will America Go Broke?, posted on March 8, 2021 at 15:08:05

AbeCollins
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I bought silver in the 1980's out of fear that the dollar would become worthless. Funny how that panned out. Sure, gold would have done a little better but the mighty dollar and stock market have outperformed both over the long haul.

RE: Financial scammers?, posted on March 8, 2021 at 15:16:14

pictureguy
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This is NOT a party issue. This TRIBALISM we are in today is very destructive.

This is like 1984.....'Two Legs Good......Four Legs better'.....

Last 2 presidents, one a D and the other R hae run up the national 'tab' by Several Trillion$$$

Look at the 'Debt Clock', and tell ME with a straight face that dick or whoever is 'responsible' for this mountain of debt.

In all fairness to Nixon, though? He DID finish off Breton Woods and took the US off the Gold Standard 'as a temporary measure' which has now lasted maybe 50 years.

When the bill comes due, it won't matter if you are R or D or another flavor of 'party'.....

Part of the problem is doubtless Corporate Personhood where corporations are now 'lobbyists' and getting law passed in their favor. And law which is clearly NOT constitutional. Nobody has bothered to say a thing about the 9th and 10th amendments, which both limit federal power to thos enumerated and reserve the remainder to the states and people.....
Too much is never enough

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

RE: When Will America Go Broke?, posted on March 8, 2021 at 15:55:10
neolith Audiophile Posts: 4842 Location: Virginia Joined: February 21, 2002 Contributor Since: December 2, 2004	The value of money and religion are very similar - they both rely on trust and faith. If you believe, then it is so and I have unlimited faith in the almighty dollar, not so much in the Almighty. "Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

RE: When Will America Go Broke?, posted on March 8, 2021 at 16:11:29

pictureguy
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For a fiat currency and fiat religion you'd be right.

But a currency which is based on something....usually a precious metal like Gold or Silver you don't have the irresponsible government to 'trust'.

I'd be curious just how MUCH Gold is in Ft. Knox?

I wonder if long-term if Gold or a precious metal does better than the constantly inflating dollar?

my eyes are too bad to go over all the charts at the link.......
Too much is never enough

https://www.macrotrends.net/1335/dollar-vs-gold-comparison-l

Nixon wasn't the only President embroiled in the Gold Standard..., posted on March 8, 2021 at 16:54:13

TWB
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there was another..... I'm going to say that THIS is NOT being taught in schools......

Executive Order #11110 and JFK

RE: When Will America Go Broke?, posted on March 8, 2021 at 17:03:38

Inmate51

I'm of the opinion that precious metals are nearly useless as a measure of currency value in this modern world. What really keeps a country and its currency alive is economic output and the government's ability to service its debt. We all remember the recent problems with, for example, Greece, Cyprus, Portugal, Spain, and other countries. Remember when Cyprus (or was it Greece?) actually got to where the government limited the amount of money a person could withdraw from their own bank account?! What country is it now that has negative interest rates?

U.S. banks are paying something like 0.1 percent on savings accounts. I don't even bother looking any more. Who gives a crap about getting ten cents on a thousand dollars?!

Let's just keep our fingers crossed that the financial know-it-alls in Washington will figure out a way to keep us afloat until we're all dead.

What bothers me is that none of them care about continuing to run up the debt and devalue-ing the Dollar. I remember when the Dollar was something like one Dollar to five German Marks, and one Dollar to four Swiss Francs. Those days are apparently gone!

RE: When the bill comes due..., posted on March 8, 2021 at 17:14:07
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	... is a false right wing narrative. The bill will likely never come due. It's the interest that has to be paid. I'm not saying that the debt could never get out of hand but IMO it is no where near out of hand at the present time with interest rates at historic lows. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: When Will America Go Broke?, posted on March 8, 2021 at 17:20:25
srdavis2000 Audiophile Posts: 10707 Location: Deep South Joined: January 11, 2003 Contributor Since: December 16, 2004	I bought into stocks in the 70s. I can't complain. Broad market index funds can make you relatively wealthy over time. Silver, gold, marijuana, stocks, the newest thing might work. You do what you do, you take your chances. I would suggest index funds vs. a lottery ticket.

RE: Why No One Should Support The "Gold Standard", posted on March 8, 2021 at 17:30:16

tweaker456
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The below article is probably just a primer on the subject. Gold has proven itself to be, in fact, one of the most worthless metals there is. Almost all the gold that has been mined in human history can be accounted for. All economies are made up and made up of trust. Come join us in the 21st Century pg and drop the gold standard nonsense. I think we should be on the shrimp and lobster sauteed in butter standard.

So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

https://www.pragcap.com/why-no-one-should-support-the-gold-s

RE: Nixon wasn't the only President embroiled in the Gold Standard..., posted on March 8, 2021 at 17:37:10

rivervalley817

that only affected silver TWB not gold ... it's not a very long EO

here's the nuts & bolts of it:

'The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b) of section 43 of the Act of May 12, 1933, as amended (31 U.S.C. 821 (b)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denominations of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption,"

Reagan revoked it with Executive Order 12608

so there's a reason it's not taught in schools about Nixon taking the US off the gold standard ... JFK was 'embroiled' in the Silver Standard

if you'd like to know why browse around the Silver Institute ...

[hint: electronics / space race]

regards,

https://www.silverinstitute.org/silverprice/1950-1960/

RE: When Will America Go Broke?, posted on March 8, 2021 at 17:43:17
rivervalley817	'I'm of the opinion that precious metals are nearly useless as a measure of currency value in this modern world' and you post on a site that is totally dependent on them for it's subject along with the device you used to post it don't feel bad, lot's of others have opinions on things they know very little about scratch that, go ahead and feel bad be well,

RE: Nixon wasn't the only President embroiled in the Gold Standard..., posted on March 8, 2021 at 17:45:20

pictureguy
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Don't doubt for a microsecond that others took part in this 'change'

But for the record and for the few curious types, Here's RMN himself delivering the news.....
Too much is never enough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye4uRvkAPhA

RE: Nixon wasn't the only President embroiled in the Gold Standard..., posted on March 8, 2021 at 17:48:34
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	In ABOUT '67 or '68 I had 100 silver certificates which I sold for 1.60$ EACH the day before that was no longer an option. I was a little capitalist, having my PAPER ROUTE money given to me as much as possible IN Silver Certificates! The agency helped me a lot in my little venture. I'm waiting for the Spot Price of silver to hit 30$+ per troy. Too much is never enough

RE: Why No One Should Support The "Gold Standard", posted on March 8, 2021 at 17:54:14

pictureguy
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I still tend to favor 'intrinsic' value.

and while you have a point about debt service, we at some point will be able to do nothing BUT.

Kicking the can down the road will mean you trip on it later when instead of a beer can size, it is up to the size of a 55 gallon drum...

The creditor t the planet. Stock in this bank MIGHT be owned by Reptilians......
Too much is never enough

https://www.bis.org/about/index.htm

RE: Why No One Should Support The "Gold Standard", posted on March 8, 2021 at 18:00:26
rivervalley817	as it turns out, all economies are based on two things: people's perceptions and fiat currency I like your idea though, except for my shellfish allergy regards,

Thanks for posting that!...., posted on March 8, 2021 at 18:54:06
TWB Audiophile Posts: 7408 Location: Long Beach, California Joined: January 5, 2001	I was a mere young teen when all that happened, and I can say that I really did not pay much attention to it at the time. I've recently had an interest in Nixon and have been reading and watching various books, videos and films regarding him... I really need to make it over to the Presidential library one of these days when we finally open up here. It's only about 25 minutes away....

"Who gives a crap about getting ten cents on a thousand dollars?!", posted on March 8, 2021 at 18:57:09
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26477 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012	As Jimmy Dore likes to say, "I'm not a math surgeon or anything. . . " but, the way I figure it: 10% of $1,000 is $100 1% of $1,000 is $10 0.1% of $1,000 is. . . $1 Do I have it right? ;-)

RE: Why No One Should Support The "Gold Standard", posted on March 8, 2021 at 21:36:04
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	Ok, forget the shellfish. Hows about chocolate pudding pie for "intrinsic" value? Or chocolate cherries? Now really, your on a desert Island, what do you want, chocolate cherries or gold? So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: Why No One Should Support The "Gold Standard", posted on March 8, 2021 at 21:41:59
rivervalley817	isn't that a dessert island ... ? ; )

RE: Why No One Should Support The "Gold Standard", posted on March 8, 2021 at 22:19:13
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	Finally a good one. You may have a new career yet rv. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: When Will America Go Broke?, posted on March 9, 2021 at 05:22:05
b.l.zeebub Audiophile Posts: 9361 Location: 52deg 28'N,1deg56'W Joined: April 17, 2006	When the Deutsche Mark was created in 1950 the exchange rate was DM4.20 to the dollar. That is as high as it ever was, in 1962 it dropped below DM4 and never went above again. The lowest was DM1.43 in 1995.

It's a relative game. Who'll supplant us? , posted on March 9, 2021 at 06:55:44
tinear Audiophile Posts: 65782 Location: Kansas City, KS Joined: April 9, 2006	Please, don't say the Chinese. Its population problem has no cure. I wonder: did you worry so much after the 2008 greed collapse?

RE: When Will America Go Broke?, posted on March 9, 2021 at 07:10:05
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	Well pictureguy my gold standard thread has been taken down. Check out the articles about how worthless and harmful the gold standard has been in the past along with the horrific environmental consequences of gold mining and it's social consequences, which include child slave labor. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: When Will America Go Broke?, posted on March 9, 2021 at 08:15:43
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46296 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	I've been in various diversified mutual funds over the decades so I can't complain, and I like to dabble in individual common stocks but a relatively small percentage of my portfolio.

You believe..., posted on March 9, 2021 at 08:24:10
Steve O Audiophile Posts: 12383 Location: SE MI Joined: September 6, 2001	...the CCP lacks the motivation, wherewithal and focus to deal with population issues? If Chinese govt has a problem right now, it might be the return of rampant, mindless, counterproductive bureaucracy.

What's concerning is the differential in IQs, posted on March 9, 2021 at 08:39:16
Jay Buridan Audiophile Posts: 10283 Location: Michigan Joined: January 21, 2004	As well as the trajectory, with Americans growing more stupid with each passing day. Also, the fact that Americans revert to war at the drop of a hat and always lose. "Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. " ― W.C. Fields

China lifted its one-child policy in 2015, posted on March 9, 2021 at 08:49:46
Jay Buridan Audiophile Posts: 10283 Location: Michigan Joined: January 21, 2004	And it's genociding its Uyghurs to the tune of about 12 million souls. I doubt that the CCP is incapable of population control -- which it views the way we view pest control. "Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. " ― W.C. Fields

The real problem:, posted on March 9, 2021 at 09:01:26
Steve O Audiophile Posts: 12383 Location: SE MI Joined: September 6, 2001	...more stupid....and proud of it!

RE: "Who gives a crap about getting ten cents on a thousand dollars?!", posted on March 9, 2021 at 09:14:46
Inmate51	LOL Yeah, I figured I was probably off, but hopefully all y'all still understand the point.

RE: gold has intrinsic value?, posted on March 9, 2021 at 10:48:08
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	Methinks not. in�trin�sic belonging naturally; essential. There is hardly a less essential thing on the planet than gold. It is completely vacuous of essentially. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: gold has intrinsic value?, posted on March 9, 2021 at 11:05:56

pictureguy
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Simply WRONG.

Many uses for Gold besides personal adornment.

Semiconducotrs and NASA are 2 categories where gold us useful. VERY thin layers will pass light and reflect heat.

And don't forget that at least in the case of the USA, Inflation is baked into the currency in the form of various reserve requirment from the NON-GOVERNMENTAL Federal Reserve system.....
Too much is never enough

https://spinoff.nasa.gov/spinoff1997/hm2.html

RE: gold has intrinsic value?, posted on March 9, 2021 at 12:10:06

tweaker456
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Useful and intrinsic and essential are different things. Food, air, water, warmth and social contact are essential or near essential. Space exploration is not, especially since it is draining mass quantities of money that could be spent to feed, house and educate people. It is also damages the ozone layer. It is dangerous and hugely wasteful. Jewelry is also not essential. Using child slave labor and mass environmental damage due to gold demand and mining is also not essential or intrinsic. The gold standard is just made up un-intrinsic non-sense .

So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: gold has intrinsic value?, posted on March 9, 2021 at 12:50:22

pictureguy
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Don't hesitate to tell me how you REALLY think!

So, the cloths made by Chlld labor and sold in this country today should be banned?? I'd support that. But you'll have trouble going back to PRE child Labor laws in this country and unwind THAT.

Put that considerable investigative brain to work on 'The Fed' and tell me if THAT is the way to go?
With a built-in inflation for good measure.
The Ron Paul book....'End The Fed' is an interesting read.

Space exploration, I'd opine, is VITAL to the future of the human race. Near-limitless resources and energy are just the Tip of the 'berg. Some more efficient propulsion methods are being worked on, so let's see how that ends.

I'm NOT in favor of spending money on what amounts to Population Increase. There ARE limits to growth which we are perhaps nearing.
Too much is never enough

https://www.amazon.com/End-Fed-Ron-Paul/dp/0446549193

Yeah, now it's really going to have a problem! nt , posted on March 9, 2021 at 13:46:31
tinear Audiophile Posts: 65782 Location: Kansas City, KS Joined: April 9, 2006	d

The country is bursting with people. Outside of mass killing, yeah, I, posted on March 9, 2021 at 13:49:55

tinear
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think the country is screwed. The cost of living increase has made it impossible for China to compete with 3rd world nations for cheap labor. And the rising middle-class will become more and more demanding of rights, just like it has everywhere else during similar growth spans.
Not saying China won't remain a powerhouse, but replace us atop the food chain? Ain't gonna happen, for a long, long time--- if ever.

I'm not a Sinophile..., posted on March 9, 2021 at 14:30:05

Steve O
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...so my knowledge is casual but......I read an article/oped last week that claimed China's up-and-coming problem is low birth rate and an aging population...a reverberation of past one child policies. This combined with CCP leadership perception that young males aren't masculine enough sounds like trouble to me. Not of excessive population numbers but wrong makeup. Although I don't believe the CCP is at the point of implementing draconian population control strategies (actually, I believe they'd like to see more babies) I wouldn't discount the possibility considering it's approach to Uyghurs and others. Can probably look to Hong Kong to see how the middle class might react to declining freedoms.

RE: gold has intrinsic value?, posted on March 9, 2021 at 15:16:42
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	No interest in libertarian inhumane insanity, non whatsoever. Once again, we are living in the 21st century. Consider joining some of us. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: gold has intrinsic value?, posted on March 9, 2021 at 15:29:43
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	Just whos side IS the Fed on? Not yours or mine. Some reasonable arguements that they made some of the financial excursions WORSE thru their actions. I'll opt-out of your same-think version of the 21st century. I'll stick with Milton Freedman if you don't mind. Too much is never enough

CCP perception that young males aren't masculine enough, posted on March 9, 2021 at 15:57:24

Jay Buridan
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Chemicals in plastic and other environmental toxins function as endocrine disruptors that play havoc with normal sexual development, such as feminizing of males or masculinizing of females. Some common gender disruptors are BPA, DEHP, DDT, PCB, dioxins, and other phthalates.

Last month researchers reported that each human ingests two credit cards in microplastics every year. Endocrine disruption is quotidian and ubiquitous across all species not least among human populations -- a rain that falls on the just and unjust, on the poor and rich equally.

I think that's what the CCP is seeing.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

All of that could be a problem..., posted on March 9, 2021 at 17:40:22
Steve O Audiophile Posts: 12383 Location: SE MI Joined: September 6, 2001	...for the animal world inc humans but the article was pretty clearly focused on the upbringing aspect of masculinity. Apparently the CCP desires to promote and maintain "traditional" male and female societal roles.

It will be interesting to watch, posted on March 9, 2021 at 18:58:47
Jay Buridan Audiophile Posts: 10283 Location: Michigan Joined: January 21, 2004	Meanwhile, Uyghurs who have maintained traditional roles are being exterminated without succour from other Muslims. "Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. " ― W.C. Fields

RE: Yep pg, no time like the present.., posted on March 9, 2021 at 19:01:58
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	... for laissez faire capitalism. Excellent "thinking" on your part. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: Yep pg, no time like the present.., posted on March 9, 2021 at 20:15:04

pictureguy
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2 types of interferrence with the economy.
helpful and NOT.
People ADOPT to changing conditions and not always for the best. Some interests are more short term or self serving.
Read this address given under the cover of The Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland. I think Cleveland is the '4th district'.

the trouble with interference is like the military being prepared for the last war.
the finanacial markets / movers / shakers have been very active. Bubble of 2008 in which very few were jailed and those pesky derivitives. California was looted by ENRON in the power scandal which resulted in Grey Davis being deposed as Governor while, again, few were jailed.

A school of though even considers the FED as not Constitutional. Since it is not an enumerataed power, per the 9th and 10th amendments, you'ld think it was a STATE power....or one requiring a Constitutioana Amendment to impliment....the approach I think would be most fruitful.
Too much is never enough

https://www.clevelandfed.org/en/newsroom-and-events/speeches

RE: Yep pg, no time like the present.., posted on March 9, 2021 at 21:08:25
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	Deregulation baybee. The magic of the free market. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: Yep pg, no time like the present.., posted on March 9, 2021 at 22:00:17
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	Who said anything about deregulation? Ways exist to replace / improve FED with better..... Did you have someone read you anything I linked? Too much is never enough

RE: Yep pg, no time like the present.., posted on March 10, 2021 at 01:48:30
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	Who are Milton Friedman and Ron Paul? Two of your heros. Hint: Ron named his spawn Rand. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: Yep pg, no time like the present.., posted on March 10, 2021 at 09:47:41
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	Friedman was the '76 winner of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics. A nobody, to be sure. Too much is never enough

RE: A nobody to be sure, posted on March 10, 2021 at 12:54:03

tweaker456
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Correct pg. Other notable somebodies would include, Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Andrew Jackson,Hubert Hoover, Vlad Putin,,Pol Pot, Ayn Rand, well I could go on. Your inane comment smacks of the Appeal To Authority logical fallacy. Below is an article on Milty with just a tini weni bit more info, thought and analysis than your comments on the subject of thankfully late,great Milton Friedman.

So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late --
Robert Allen Zimmerman

THE ORIGINS AND IMPACT OF DEREGULATION-aka Friedman's Folly

RE: A nobody to be sure, posted on March 10, 2021 at 14:08:07

pictureguy
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When I do a google for Wilber Daniels, i get references to a Gospel Singer. Same Guy?

Article also appears to have been written 35 or more years ago. Can't you find anything more recent with like.......something approaching current data?

You also have yet to address The Constitution and where it figures in all this? How much law written in the last 5 decades would not pass the 'constitutional muster' test?

Funny you should mention Mao. I'm in process of rereading the most authoritative biography available. Written by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday. Recommended read. maybe you can find the Cliffs Notes version?
Too much is never enough

RE: gold has intrinsic value?, posted on March 10, 2021 at 14:23:15

b.l.zeebub
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Aahh...Milton Friedman.

The problem with him is that his ideas of deregulation have been proven wrong wherever they have been applied in practice.
When he got his Nobel prize in 1976 there were large scale protests since his ideas via his students had been applied in Chile which lead to dictatorship and economic ruin.
Deregulation inevitably leads to a short term boom followed by an almighty bust.

I think I'll stick with 2008 Nobel laureate Paul Krugman.

RE: gold has intrinsic value?, posted on March 10, 2021 at 16:06:41

pictureguy
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This is perfect evidence for the 'adaptability' of man.

As conditions change, response and actions change.

As an effect, the system is constantly being 'gamed' by people. An example from nature would be that microbes constantly adapt to whatever Anti-Biotic is being used and eventually become immune.
Current Covid-19 Virus has similar or same 'mutations' pop up basically simultaneously in very widely spaced places. TOO fast for people to have been the mediating agent.

If taxes were repealed on a certaint activity, you'd get a LOT more of it. One exception may be cigarettes where I'm not certain of the huge increases in taxation have resulted in lower demand. Additction is like that, maybe.

The problem, IMO with capitalism is Capitalists. And turning goverment to the service os business.
Bastiat might have had it right a couple hundred years ago.

Too much is never enough

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Law_(Bastiat_book)

Some Numbers, posted on March 11, 2021 at 14:47:49
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	Student debt for loan holders >38,000$ per student Number of US millionaires? >18,000,000 Number of food stamp recipients? >45,000,000 TOTAL US Debt? >82$ Trillion (everything) US National Debt per Taxpayer? >230,000$ US National Debt per Citizen? >85,000$ US debt service is projected to rise to about 8% of budget by 2050... Too much is never enough

RE: Some Numbers, posted on March 11, 2021 at 17:38:53
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	It's reported to be 5.3% now. 8% doesn't seem like the end of the world and the collapse of the dollar to me. Hopefully soon we will have et technology and completely rework the system. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: Some Numbers, posted on March 11, 2021 at 17:54:04
rivervalley817	I can't be out of money I still have checks left!

RE: Some Numbers, posted on March 11, 2021 at 18:07:51
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	A Billion here, A billions there and pretty soon you're talking about real money. Everett Dirksen......Senator from Illinois when I was a kid. I may still have the senate pass bearing his signiture around here somewhere..... Too much is never enough

RE: Some Numbers, posted on March 11, 2021 at 18:22:21
rivervalley817	one of my favorite quotes! Dirksen ... the very embodiment of a stentorian speakier regards,

Agreed, clean water has more intrinsic value than most other things, posted on March 12, 2021 at 08:38:20
Jay Buridan Audiophile Posts: 10283 Location: Michigan Joined: January 21, 2004	And clean air. Just ask people in Lahore, Delhi, Beijing, etc. "Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. " ― W.C. Fields

RE: Agreed, clean water has more intrinsic value than most other things, posted on March 12, 2021 at 10:11:06
tweaker456 Audiophile Posts: 7741 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: June 20, 2020	+1 The California fires will convince you real quick how intrinsically worthless gold is. I'll take clean air any day of the week. Luckily I do get it most days. The SF bay is still filled with silt from gold mining over a hundred years ago. So let us stop talkin' falsely now, the hour's getting late -- Robert Allen Zimmerman

RE: Some Numbers, posted on March 12, 2021 at 17:42:13
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	How long have you been waiting to use 'stentorian' in a sentence? Too much is never enough

RE: Some Numbers, posted on March 12, 2021 at 18:07:15
rivervalley817	it's not like I was waiting but it's been awhile since that quote doesn't surface much these days Paul Simon had that quality as well even though he looked like a small TV market weatherman with his trademark bow ties was it a foreign term to you or something?

RE: Some Numbers, posted on March 12, 2021 at 19:49:46
pictureguy Audiophile Posts: 22597 Location: SoCal Joined: October 19, 2008	No, not exactly. Just not in 'common' usage. Wife speaks Spanish. Every once in a while she uses a word I recognize in English. And it is usually a little used word. Sometimes wife and other discuss a word, something which rarely happens in English........ Just an observation. Too much is never enough

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When Will America Go Broke?

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