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Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?

69.62.145.38
Posted on June 13, 2017 at 17:15:27
howard
Audiophile

Posts: 2952
Location: No. California
Joined: December 31, 1999
 I'm having a second bike assembled and even though I got an NOS frame at less than 1/3 from new and also received a discount on the group, crankset and cassette(paid retail for saddle/bars/bottom bracket), it's going to be expensive(still need a stem and wheels@$3300+).

All of the years I spent daydreaming about assembling the best system I could afford, it didn't bother me. This does as I could've bought what I really wanted used and fully assembled for less.



 

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RE: Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?, posted on June 13, 2017 at 18:00:28
Sebrof
Audiophile

Posts: 634
Location: AusTX
Joined: July 12, 2002
 I have a milestone birthday coming up in about 6 months, and I was planning to get a custom frame made so I could build it up. A little research and I'm beginning to realize I might be better off just buying a good bike. Your post is just another data point.

My budget is ~ $5,000 (I have some parts from other bikes/projects) but we know how budgets go...only one direction ;)

 

RE: Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?, posted on June 13, 2017 at 19:41:38
geoff
Audiophile

Posts: 3500
Joined: April 5, 2000
Contributor
  Since: September 10, 2003
 I'm a steel sort of a guy.

 

I went back to cycling and had a cheap bike, made a great one and quit., posted on June 13, 2017 at 21:02:31
3+4=5
 I can't explain exactly why I quit.
The new bike, carbon fiber and Shimano Dura Ace..It was too damn twitchy. and I had two experiences in the first two rides to stop me for good.
First was a couple of kids trying to steal it.
Second was nearly being run over by a 18 wheel semi alondside, passing me.
I parked it. And really totally stopped riding.
I SHOULD have just kept that cheap bike I LIKED.

 

RE: Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?, posted on June 13, 2017 at 18:18:39
howard
Audiophile

Posts: 2952
Location: No. California
Joined: December 31, 1999
 Most carbon frames are made in Taiwan(sometimes different brands in the same factory). Hit different Cycling on YouTube such as GCN, Bike Radar, Cycling etc.
.
For your budget, you'll find good deals with top quality groups. My Orbea has Dura-Ace Di2 and the new Wilier Zero.7 has e-Tap.

 

RE: Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?, posted on June 13, 2017 at 20:13:21
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001



I tend to buy late model used or a discontinued model at a discount as a starting point and go from there.

Bike above was purchased 2 weeks old from a fool in Utah who bought the wrong bike while in Omaha on business(in 2006). The dealer wouldn't and/or couldn't take it back after the guy rode it for a couple weeks.

I forced the guy to give me the dealers name and I convinced the dealer in Omaha to transfer the warranty to me as original purchaser (Trek has a lifetime warranty on plastic bike frames) and I would rid him of this annoying, unhappy customer who was calling him every day to complain about the bike.

He gladly agreed.

That said, 10+ years later NOTHING on the bike is original. Not even the seat post clamp. Originally a Madone 5.2 Ultegra 6600 it's now DuraAce 7800T (triple) currently running wheels (not pictured here) off of a Madone 6.9 with ceramic bearings added.

Rides like a dream, max investment (mostly used parts for upgrades purchased from people I know who have TOO MANY BIKES and WAY to many parts), maybe $3500 tops. Rides like a dream, usually about 75-100 miles a week on average(25 mi. today). The triple crank and upward pointing stem are a sign that the rider is in his seventh decade on this earth.


That said, I'm looking around now for a good, used Cerv


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

If I were going to go the custom bike route..., posted on June 13, 2017 at 20:21:18
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 with lots of money, I'd go steel.

But I'd have to move because at Ocean Beach in San Francisco EVERYTHING rusts, even in the house.

My wife has a late 70's Cinelli which has a paint over chrome frame and it's horribly rusted after 30+ years living near the ocean. She has a newer plastic bike but won't give up the steel bike even though it weighs more and has fewer gears.








First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: If I were going to go the custom bike route..., posted on June 13, 2017 at 20:57:33
howard
Audiophile

Posts: 2952
Location: No. California
Joined: December 31, 1999
 This would be my last.

 

You could do a lot worse..., posted on June 13, 2017 at 21:02:00
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Wife has a Litespeed 'Pisgah' Mt. Bike as her shopping/around town bike and love it.

Pretty much indubitable and it won't rust!





First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?, posted on June 13, 2017 at 22:58:20
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000




Bikes and components are getting cheaper and cheaper.
I ride this 1999 Litespeed with new SRAM Force 22 and Shimano composite wheels.

I rebuilt it 2 or 3 years ago - re-investing in it rather than buying something else because the frame fits me so nicely and it really will last forever.

Because of Chinese/Taiwanese mfg and economies of scale, the 2nd hand bike market is dirt cheap. BUT, forget warranty on 2nd hand carbon frames or wheels. I wouldn't touch them.
You pays the price, and you takes your risks!



Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

Yes. Planning on a Mason Bokeh., posted on June 14, 2017 at 00:52:37
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5950
Location: North Island
Joined: April 4, 2000
 Used to ride cross country (Pace RC200 with their suspension fork). Now more into road and adventure cycling of my youth.

Currently saving (not very studiously) for a Mason Bokeh.




Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

I hear that., posted on June 14, 2017 at 00:55:52
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5950
Location: North Island
Joined: April 4, 2000
 Those roadside truck experiences can be terrifying.

I'm saving for an adventure bike, to simulate the riding of my youth. A burly road bike. Aluminium, as I don't want to pretend I'm some super athlete and hate that 'twitchiness' you describe!

Hope you get riding again, in a way that gives you pleasure.

Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

RE: Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?, posted on June 14, 2017 at 01:00:53
eppis1
Audiophile

Posts: 1114
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: September 21, 2003
 Just recently pulled my Cannondale out of mothballs and had a local bike shop put it back into good running order. I let the lease run out on my car, so the bike is partly needed for local transportation, but more for a little casual exercise. The area where I live can be a traffic challenge, but I'm careful. All that being said, it's nice to get back into the biking life. A simple pleasure.

 

Yes, spotted that last year. nt, posted on June 14, 2017 at 01:02:09
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5950
Location: North Island
Joined: April 4, 2000
Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

Nice. nt, posted on June 14, 2017 at 01:03:41
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5950
Location: North Island
Joined: April 4, 2000
Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

How do yo find the Ti ride?, posted on June 14, 2017 at 01:05:55
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5950
Location: North Island
Joined: April 4, 2000
 Have wondered about trying it.


Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

RE: How do yo find the Ti ride?, posted on June 14, 2017 at 01:11:59
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 I've never spent enough time on a carbon bike to tell. Wheels and tyres make a huge difference.
It does kill the steelie I had before it though. The Litespeed felt like floating over the tarmac v/s grinding on it as the Fuji did. Even with the same wheels and tyres.


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

This style of bike is growing big!, posted on June 14, 2017 at 02:13:31
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000



Down Under, Curve Cycles lead the way in adventure bikes with the Curve Grovel.
Curve was the choice of several riders in the recent, tragic, Indian Pacific Wheel Race, and in several of the Trans American races.


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

About geometry, posted on June 14, 2017 at 02:37:35
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 Specialized have released a super sharp criterium race bike this year - the Allez Comp.
Super stiff unforgiving frame, razor sharp quick handling. Aluminium.

There are so many different bikes on the market now, knowing what bike for what kind of ride is becoming harder.

My old steel Fuji would dive into the apex of every corner, sometimes unnerving how quickly and easily it would change direction.
My Litespeed takes more conscious effort to turn, but is very stable and smooth at any speed - and still does ok on the racetrack.


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

Yep, a classic from the era when Madones were made to last, posted on June 14, 2017 at 02:52:06
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 They've gone too light and too fiddly now.


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

RE: Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?, posted on June 14, 2017 at 03:05:32
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000



First step, find a good bike fitter and nail down the critical dimensions of the frame that suits you and your riding.
Then shop.

If you want something special, there are choices from A to Z!
There are some amazing custom frame manufacturers out there these days - Rivet is an Asian titanium frame builder who has a real dealer network and can build full custom.
Baum is an Aussie custom frame builder, making arguably the best Ti frames in the world right now. Every one is a work of art. 12 months wait.And you need to fly to Oz for the fitting :-)


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

RE: Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?, posted on June 14, 2017 at 04:26:05
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3537
Joined: April 23, 2007
 I have a Pinarello Paris cabon fiber....all Shimano top stuff. I only changed the uncomfortable (for Me) saddle and am using a bit heavier, but much more comfortable Brooks saddle.

 

RE: Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?, posted on June 14, 2017 at 04:47:17
Dave_K
 I used to race, but that was many years ago (HS and college). After that, it was mostly fitness rides with my wife and/or friends. And some mtn biking for fun. These days, I have two young kids and a house to keep up with and a commute that isn't rideable, so I don't ride nearly enough.

My road bike is a mongrel that has been upgraded here and there over the years. I've stuck with a surplus Specialized Roubaix frame from some time (in the late 90s I think) when they made them with long top tubes and moderate seat tube angle. I like my back to be straight and comfortably stretched out, and so I like a longer than average top tube. Whenever I try out new bikes (at least the ones that are reasonably priced), I tend to feel cramped unless it's fitted with a really long stem, which I don't like. I should have gotten a LeMond back when Greg was specifying the frame geometry, before they became Treks with a different brand name. Components are mostly 105 and Ultegra, and I run a compact double.

Every once in a while I get the itch to buy something new, but I've never really been into the hardware side of the hobby so much. A few of my cycling friends are more into their rides than the riding and have a collection of sorts to show off. Even when I was racing I never felt like I was handicapped because my 105 groupset weighed a pound more than Dura-Ace. I just want a comfortable, efficient position, a drivetrain that stays in tune, and good wheels.

I also like single track mtn biking and most recently had a Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc. I like a hardtail with 26ers and a slightly too-small frame because I can ride it a bit like the BMX bikes I grew up with. Unfortunately it was stolen and I haven't replaced it yet.

 

Sounds lovely. nt, posted on June 14, 2017 at 05:05:28
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5950
Location: North Island
Joined: April 4, 2000
Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

RE: This style of bike is growing big!, posted on June 14, 2017 at 05:15:53
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5950
Location: North Island
Joined: April 4, 2000
 That looks special. Ti frame as well?

Seems a generation of cyclists all ready to move to this type of ride, for whatever reason. For my part, its knowing that XC is too much fuss for me these days, and decent shocks a bother to maintain.

Just want the fun again of an all day ride!


Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

RE: About geometry, posted on June 14, 2017 at 05:23:19
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5950
Location: North Island
Joined: April 4, 2000
 Yes. I appreciate the handling concepts behind the Bokeh, hence my interest. Super stiff is not what I am after, but a balanced, slightly forgiving frame in Alu can be a delightful thing.

That Allez Comp would just beat me up every time I rode it. But I'm a tall, rangy guy so if the bike is to flexible, it saps my strength and loses handling prowess under me.'

Your Litespeed sounds great.

Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

Yep., posted on June 14, 2017 at 06:00:11
lochrider
Audiophile

Posts: 493
Location: Southeast Minnesota
Joined: March 15, 2001
Contributor
  Since: March 17, 2002
 I have been riding varioius bikes on a regular basis for more than 50 years (I'm 67 yrs. old). I raced criteriums, road races, time trials, and on the velodrome (Northfield, IL; Major Taylor in Indy; Washington Park, Kenosha, WI; NSC at Blaine, MN). I've been a college racing team coach and ran a coaching service with a client list of numerous amateurs and a pro.

The suggestion by a poster below to find a good bicycle fitter is an excellent first step even if you think you know what size frame you need. Once a cyclists knows their flexibility level and geometric preferences, finding the right bike is a more likely prospect.

Second, assuming you have set your budget, try riding demo bikes set up to your prefereed geometry with frames of various materials and determine whether you can tell the difference and, if so, what you prefer. As in audio, try to compare bikes with similar group sets (components) rather than comparing one bike with an entry level drive train to another with top-of-the-line compenents.

Some additional notes to consider:

Whether buying new or used, have the bike checked out by a bicycle mechanic or very knowledgeable cyclist before you close the deal.

Steel and aluminum frames of various alloys and plastic (carbon fibre) can be made to ride from stiff to flexy. Pay more attention to the actual feel of the bike than to it's material.

Bike shops typically have a low margin (unlike in audio), so deep discounts on "new" bikes is usually limited to older year models in non-standard sizes (the left-overs).

If you are sure absolutely of what you want and you plan to buy on line, get a commitment from the seller (whether a retailer or private person) for return rights within 10 days to 2 weeks.

Today, you can buy at retail a very comfortable, light road or adventure bicycle with decent components in a range from $2,000 to $22,000. A new brand-name bike with factory spec'd components will almost always be less expensive and offer better value than buying a frame separately and hanging sale-priced components on it.

Good hunting!

Cheers,

Ian

 

RE: About geometry, posted on June 14, 2017 at 06:01:01
Dave_K
 I don't understand the appeal of super steep, sometimes bordering on unstable 'crit' geometry.

I also ride motorcycles, and have owned some performance motorcycles and have done many track days. From my perspective, any reasonably designed bicycle takes practically zero effort to turn, and even on a 29er mtn bike you can change lines in the blink of an eye. You simply need to know how to counter-steer. Perhaps a lot of bicycle riders were never taught?

Also, the only racers you'll likely find riding an Allez Comp are Cat 5 beginners. Most Allez buyers are recreational riders for whom stiff frames with steep geometry are a detriment.

 

RE: How many of you guys race these bikes?, posted on June 14, 2017 at 06:29:19
kitch29
 I club-raced Criteriums in the Miami area back in the 80s. Those races, really just for fun, were justification for having spent about $1,000 on the frame and components. Back then, light meant 21lbs. and aluminum frames with oh-so stiff geometries had just come on the racing scene.

Before my spine let me down, mountain biking became my pastime and lightness just as avidly pursued as for the road. Then I read a post on the MTBR Forum from a guy who had just come home with an expensive component that shaved a few grams off the bike's total weight. His wife commented something to the effect that 'putting down those cookies would save you more weight than any amount of $$$ you could spend on gear'.

Of course, when women (post-wife) make a comment on the price of a bike or how many albums I have, my rejoinder is always, "how many pairs of shoes do you own?"

 

Yes, a YOUNGER generation of cyclists... :-), posted on June 14, 2017 at 07:03:27
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Not for this old guy.

Those stiff, straight front forks, necessitated by that front disk brake, would be a killer for my, old arthritic hands and wrists.

That said, all the young riders now have to have a 'ravel bike' in their stable so good on 'em, I say. Until you have at least a dozen bike in the garage, with your BEST ones in the living room and bedroom, you really don't qualify!




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: "how many pairs of shoes do you own?", posted on June 14, 2017 at 07:10:34
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 No can do!

Besides 3000-4000 LPs and a garage full of bikes, I have more shoes in the closet than Imelda Marcos! =:-0


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Just a little, posted on June 14, 2017 at 07:17:22
Barry
Audiophile

Posts: 1003
Location: PA
Joined: November 24, 1999
Contributor
  Since: January 18, 2009
 4,000 miles last year despite other distractions.







 

Yes, same bike since 1982 ..., posted on June 14, 2017 at 07:23:31
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13131
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 The rest of the guys I ride with all have modern bikes, but I enjoy mine just fine.

Found it (frame only) hanging in a shop window in 1982. Went in, made a deal. It was a college graduation present to myself.

Its an Austro Damlier with Reynolds 531 tubing, Campagnolo Nuovo Record derailleurs and shifters, Super Record hubs, crank, pedals and headset, Mavic rims and Modolo Pro brakes. Very old school.

I first built it with Shimano EX components, which were more affordable, so I could start riding it and then did all of the upgrades within the first three years. Nothing has changed since.

It was crazy expensive in its day and not worth much now. I'd never sell or replace it. We've logged too many miles together and at my age I think the rider might be most important component on the bike.



Dean.





reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

Ha ha! nt, posted on June 14, 2017 at 07:37:15
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5950
Location: North Island
Joined: April 4, 2000
Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

RE: "should have gotten a LeMond back when Greg was specifying the frame geometry", posted on June 14, 2017 at 07:54:15
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Passed on a LeMond (met him when he was an armature racing his last race before heading to Europe) some time ago. If memory serves, it was a Titanium frame (is that possible?) and seemed to be of the era where his bikes were considerably different in design from those with the TREK label. Sorry now I didn't jump on it as the seller was asking a reasonable price and one can't have too many bikes!

A long top tube would be preferable for me being near 6 ft. with short legs. As it is, I have always used a 130 stem but that is less than ideal as it puts the bars too far ahead of the steer tube/front forks. :-(

Plus the longer bike can be a lot easier ride in all respects.

Had one of the very first Klein Team Supers in the mid/late 70's. Track bike geometry with toe-clip crossover with the front wheel, beat the crap out of me but great for that last few yards at the top of a hill!

Now I'm into comfort rather than speed.





First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: How many? Don't ask, don't tell ;-}, posted on June 14, 2017 at 08:58:32
kitch29
 Made me look and here's a pic of a 1983-ish De Rosa, mine was red with pre-Record-Nuovo Super Record Grupo and Mavic clinchers. We were both turned into pretzels by a Metro-Dade bus Easter Sunday morning 1989 under the Lehmann Causeway.




Didn't ride again until 8 years ago when I moved to Asheville and discovered Mt. Biking. No Buses, just Timber Rattlers!

Got hooked and bought a Santa Cruz Heckler Frame you couldn't tell from new on Ebay and had a local shop fit it with Shimano 'good stuff' brakes and wheels, mid-range Rockshox 8" fork.

Then 3 years ago I got hit by another bus, degenerative arthritis, spine and hip. Bye Bye, bike.





 

Bikes for nostalgic old farts ...., posted on June 14, 2017 at 10:09:29
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13131
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 Back when I was riding daily I always wanted a Ciocc. I liked their framework.

Just for heck of it I looked into what they were up to today.

In addition to their modern line they make a line of "classic" bikes... presumably for nostalgic old farts like myself.

Link below.

Dean.







reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

Love to ride..., posted on June 14, 2017 at 10:55:23
jbrrp1
Audiophile

Posts: 483
Location: Minnesota
Joined: April 24, 2007
 And I bike commute on a heavy beater that I've got ~$1,000 into total. It is steel and actually rides nice, but my biking friends do not understand why I don't spend more for better (especially when they see my stereo!). I had the itch to upgrade during the winter non-riding season, but once I got beck on and got commuting, I couldn't see why. I like the amount of effort it takes me to ride my 16 mile journey, and making it easier isn't the right move.

I do think getting a good bike fitting would good for my aging body, and then I'd have to buy a new bike. My 2,500 miles per year does seem tougher on the low back.

 

MTB, one with electric assist, posted on June 14, 2017 at 11:59:11
fredtr
Audiophile

Posts: 1987
Location: Phoenix
Joined: January 4, 2005
 I try to ride everyday, very early in the morning in the summer, mountain bike due to where I live. Spend much less on my bike than on audio, full suspension Gary Fisher now.

At one point recovering from knee surgery added electric motor (1/2 hp Kollmorgen) to full suspension bike. Could regulate knee pressure with throttle, helped recovery. Then used it for last very steep climb home, few lbs of nano LIPO's gets me home three times on a charge.

 

The triple crank and upward pointing stem..., posted on June 14, 2017 at 12:16:47
Sebrof
Audiophile

Posts: 634
Location: AusTX
Joined: July 12, 2002
 Ain't that the truth...but for me make that the 6th decade.

My neighbor got a Cervelo last year, very nice bike.
About 5 years ago he came into my garage, we hadn't even met yet. He asked if I knew anything about riding bicycles on the street. :) I loaned him one of my bikes and told him to ride for a while and if he liked riding to take his time and get one. Fast forward a few years and he's on his 3rd bike, is much younger than me and must faster.

 

RE: How many of you guys race these bikes?, posted on June 14, 2017 at 12:31:39
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000



Yep. 56 yo Cat 3 racer. Love it.
Drama free, good buddies, great workout.

Though I did go through the back window of a parked car in April, which wasn't so great ........


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

Very nice!, posted on June 14, 2017 at 12:48:33
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 You might be surprised what it's with these days, not that you're selling.

I started riding a proper road bike in 1980 or so on a black with yellow tape with 5 speed Suntour.

I haven't ridden downtube shifters for a long long time. Sort of miss them.


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

RE: Love to ride..., posted on June 14, 2017 at 13:17:35
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 The 'light bike' is one of the myths of cycling.
Sure, for a PRO who in a very aggressive stage may climb several thousand feet and still should have some power left for a Sprint, it makes sense to shave ounces.

But for MOST of us? I could LOSE the equivelent in weight of your steel bike and STILL be too heavy
Besides, not ALL steels are created equal.
For example:
Reynolds 753R is chemically identical to 531. difference are in wall thickness and the fact that the 753R is heat treated and requires a bit more skill to properly braze up without huring the material.

Aluminum has NO FATIGUE STRENGTH and due to that and lower tensile limits, must be 'laid on' a bit thicker and bigger diameter. Aluminum framesets have a very finite lifetime since every stress cycle eats into ultimate lifespan. This is for 6000 series alloys, which can be mainly heat treated to mild steel tubing levels = T6.
Other alloys of aluminum have different characteristics. Some can't be welded, but take to GLUE very well.

Titanium is where you want to be. An Aircraft Hydraulic Tubing alloy, like Six-Four or Three-two and a half are Ti / Al and Vanadium alloys which are amazing. High tensile strength AND a very high elasticity. They don't wear out, either. Fatigue limits are VERY high as is tensile limits.
Avoid CP Titanium (Commerically Pure)

Nothing wrong with a good steel bike.
Too much is never enough

 

Damn, did I need to see this post!, posted on June 14, 2017 at 15:02:58
vinyl phanatic
Audiophile

Posts: 1596
Location: Washington DC
Joined: May 22, 2006



With my personal life in disarray, I really need to dig out my old De Rosa and get off my ass. Lots of club racing back in the 80's into the 90's, not a lot lately. Looks like crap now, but it'll clean up. Thanks!

 

Colnago and Gios do the same , posted on June 14, 2017 at 15:22:38
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000


But with 10 speed via downtube shifters.

It's the L'Eroica thing - steel and downtube shifters are way hip :-)



Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

Allez Comp DSW, posted on June 14, 2017 at 15:48:50
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000


It is a special one - Specialized "smart weld" aluminium.
See the review - I'm considering one to keep my Litespeed for coffee rides and long ones.



Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

Sometimes, the guys joke about my Litespeed being a noodle etc etc , posted on June 14, 2017 at 16:04:43
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 Carbon snobs can be that way, plus, it's over 2 or 3 years old, so therefore slow, not aero and completely useless to them :-)

There have been some new studies done lately which perhaps prove that stiffness is not the be all and end all of frames - and that in fact, a frame that has built in flex which works in sympathety with the riders strengths can perform a lot better than a stiffer bike.

i.e. what we all know deep down - specs are crap.
How it feels when you actually ride it is what counts.



Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

LeMond bikes, posted on June 15, 2017 at 09:09:27
Dave_K
 I didn't think LeMond made a Ti frame, but I'm not exactly a bike historian so I don't know for sure.

I know with his original company, his frames were carbon. And when he went into business with Trek in the mid-90s, he used carbon frames in the top models and Reynolds steel in the rest. The top end carbon frame bikes had ideal geometry for me: 56cm top tube, 53cm seat tube, and a 73.5 seat angle. If I remember right, the LeMond Maillot Jaune was $4k+ with Campy Record, which was way more bike than I needed or wanted or could afford at the time. But the Chambery was more like $2500 with Ultegra and I could have (and should have) gotten one.

The mid-90s steel frame LeMond bikes were a cm or two shorter, and then sometime around '99 or '00 the whole line adopted the same (shorter) geometry. They were still longer and with a bit shallower angles than the Trek line, but no longer classic geometry.

My wife picked up one of the last LeMond bikes in 2007 or 2008, right before Trek dropped him due to his continuing criticism of Armstrong. She wanted something faster than her old Bianchi Trofeo when she started doing tris, and the LeMond still had the most comfortable geometry among the racier offerings. Nevertheless, she's never been as comfortable as on the Bianchi, and surprisingly, not as fast either except on steep climbs where the weight difference was noticeable.

To finally get to the point (sorry), I think there is a relationship between comfort and speed. Riding a bike with twitchy handling just saps a little bit of mental energy, a stiff ride where you feel every pavement imperfection contributes to fatigue, and if you're not comfortable you waste energy moving around a lot.

 

RE: Allez Comp DSW, posted on June 15, 2017 at 11:32:18
Dave_K
 So it looks like they've gotten racier with the Allez Comp since I last had a look. I checked out the Allez DSW geometry and it's within 1mm of the basic Allez, so it seems like the main difference is stiffness.

I've always liked the Allez as a good all-around road bike for riders who are fit but not super-serious, and I've had several friends who owned them (or the Dolce). I don't know the Allez Comp nearly as well. My friends who upgraded from the Allez skipped right over and it into $3-5k range.

I have a couple of friends who own Litespeeds and they really like how they ride. On paper, Titanium offers perhaps the ideal combination of weight, energy efficiency, and ride quality. Unfortunately, they're a bit too short (front to back) for me, otherwise I'd probably own one.

 

RE: Damn, did I need to see this post!, posted on June 15, 2017 at 12:11:24
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Might need some new tires / tubes, depending on how long its been sitting.
Too much is never enough

 

Thanks for the link ... , posted on June 15, 2017 at 17:20:43
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13131
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 Vintage guys on vintage bikes.

Look like a very cool event.



My favorite part of cycling has always been climbing hills.

Back when I was a daily rider and in good shape there was nothing I enjoyed more than getting out of the saddle and charging up a hill.

What a rush !

Thanks again. I enjoyed that.

Dean.






reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

RE: Damn, did I need to see this post!, posted on June 15, 2017 at 20:18:20
howard
Audiophile

Posts: 2952
Location: No. California
Joined: December 31, 1999
 Dead men don't listen to audio!

 

RE: Thanks for the link ... , posted on June 15, 2017 at 20:28:46
howard
Audiophile

Posts: 2952
Location: No. California
Joined: December 31, 1999
 Vintage looks out of place now. I started in '84 on a Centurian Dave Scott Ironman w/36 spokes. Could never go back to those days with ugly/droopy saddles one inch stem and odd looking fork rakes.

 

RE: Yep., posted on June 15, 2017 at 23:36:25
howard
Audiophile

Posts: 2952
Location: No. California
Joined: December 31, 1999
 Why didn't you tell me that before?

 

Here's Some New Stuff. , posted on June 15, 2017 at 23:55:57
howard
Audiophile

Posts: 2952
Location: No. California
Joined: December 31, 1999
 nt

 

I occasionally see crit racers racing on steelies with downtube shifters, posted on June 16, 2017 at 01:22:57
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 I don't mind the look at all and am tempted at times to go real vintage, but the downtube shifters scared me sometimes back in the '80's, still scare me now - Nothing spookier than downhill twisties and trying to pre-shift for the right gear when the bottom corner is approaching ......

Good for social cruises though. Zero maintenance.



Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

You need the Lemond Ti - seriously classy, with the Lemond stretch, posted on June 16, 2017 at 01:27:03
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000

Absolutely beautiful and pure class - Made from rare Reynolds Titanium in the Trek factory.



Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

Is theis thread actually about cycling or about spending money on it?, posted on June 16, 2017 at 03:42:17
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
 ?

:-)


Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

" the rider might be most important component", posted on June 16, 2017 at 03:45:18
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
 gee, and, wowww,

BGBO for everyone else who just might get that.

? Blinding Glimse of the Bleeding Obvious?




Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: LeMond bikes, posted on June 16, 2017 at 04:51:22
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 Yes, there were some beautiful Reynolds titanium bikes made at the Trek factory in Wisconsin.
If love one.
See piccy in the post further down.


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

I suffered an auto-off failure, very humiliating , posted on June 16, 2017 at 06:12:23
Craiger56
Audiophile

Posts: 5571
Location: San Jose CA
Joined: April 3, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 29, 2003
 New bike has more redundancy, don't want to go through that again.

 

In my eyes looks about as out of place today as a ..., posted on June 16, 2017 at 06:25:39
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13131
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 ...Jaguar XKE, or a Ferrari Dino.

Timeless good looks.

I think a lot of modern bikes look way cool... others as awkward as a Pontiac Aztek.

To each their own.

Dean.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

RE: Thanks for the link ... , posted on June 16, 2017 at 06:30:53
Dave_K
Vintage looks out of place now. I started in '84 on a Centurian Dave Scott Ironman w/36 spokes. Could never go back to those days with ugly/droopy saddles one inch stem and odd looking fork rakes.


I started on a Centurion LeMans exactly like the one below (minus the safety reflectors). I'll have to differ with you because I still like the look. I don't care for the sloping top tubes that are so common today, and I think a lot of the aero features on top racing bikes look out of proportion and ugly (purposeful, but ugly).


 

RE: You need the Lemond Ti - seriously classy, with the Lemond stretch, posted on June 16, 2017 at 06:37:47
Dave_K
 Thanks, I didn't realize that. I'm guessing that was early 90s when he was still quasi-independent? I'll have to look.

Hmm... looked through LeMond brochures from the Trek years (1996+) and don't see any Ti frames. Looks like he had Ti frames built from 1990 to 1995 from several different manufacturers.

Edit- found them.

After further research, it looks like the good LeMond Ti bikes were either the ones with the Merlin-built frames Greg raced on in the very early 90s, which presumably sold in very low numbers and are rarer than hens teeth, or the ones Gary Helfrich built at Trek from 2001-2004. Of the latter, it looks like I have the following choices if I want a full Ti frame:

2001-2002 Tete de Course
2001-2003 Victoire
2003-2004 Arrivee

The only downside is that these frames are about 1.5cm shorter than the late 90s models I was coveting. But still longer than average. You've definitely piqued my interest!

 

Yikes ! ..., posted on June 16, 2017 at 11:25:25
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13131
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 Though I did go through the back window of a parked car in April, which wasn't so great ........

I'd imagine not !

Great picture. Glad you are ok.

Love the socks !

Dean.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

RE: " the rider might be most important component", posted on June 16, 2017 at 13:50:35
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 Unfortunately Tim, in today's world of high tech and marketing hype, and preying on the male ego, bike manufacturers are in a technology war where a few percent of gains in a windtunnel put their new model at the top of the pile.
The fact that you need pro cyclist physiology to take advantage of the aero benefits is not mentioned in the sales pitch ;-)

Unlike F1 or the Americas Cup, you, or I could go to the bike shop and ride home on the exact same machine that is currently winning world championships. Paying for speed via upgradeitis tempts many many amateur competitive riders.
Spending on a bike fit and on a training program would give much better results .........


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

RE: You need the Lemond Ti - seriously classy, with the Lemond stretch, posted on June 16, 2017 at 18:34:34
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 Litespeed geometry fits me just right. I knew it as soon as I put my leg over it. And all their road frame geometries match. I've thought of upgrading to a newer Litespeed frame - stiffer, lighter, with 1 1/8" steerer so I get a full choice of forks - but, whatever, my 1999 model is still fit for purpose :-) Stiff enough, light enough, definitely strong enough! I've ridden a mates $$$$$ Baum custom and can't feel any remarkable improvements in power transfer ......

LeMond geometry definitely works for some body types - I know a couple of devotees. And those Trek era ones are beautifully made and intricately finished.

Lynskey will do full custom Ti, as will Rivet (Chinese made, properly marketed), and Habanero in Arizona (maybe a bit too cheap and cheerful, but strong and fit for purpose!).


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

RE: Yikes ! ..., posted on June 16, 2017 at 18:46:23
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 30kmh straight into the back.
$4K damage to the car. I left a huge hole through the back window and dents in the boot lid.
It was a 2013 Mercedes 250 CLS coupe!

The Litespeed seems completely undamaged, but forks aren't designed for that kind of abuse - I haven't ridden it since.
A new fork is arriving for it this week.

It only took a couple of weeks for my face to heal up. I've had to ride my mtb out with the boys (I have no spare roadie) - very hard work. And the Litespeed on rollers.

Can't wait to get properly going again!



Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

RE: I suffered an auto-off failure, very humiliating , posted on June 16, 2017 at 21:28:29
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 Dominos have introduced ebikes for their pizza deliveries around our suburb. Plenty of auto-off failures there!


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

That's an old junker, posted on June 16, 2017 at 21:31:14
JDK
Audiophile

Posts: 19655
Location: Sydney
Joined: June 26, 2000
 But it lt looks about my size.
I'll look after it if you don't want it ;-)


Trying to hide from entropy
John K

 

Could never get into the Brooks saddle thing, posted on June 18, 2017 at 10:32:24
mitch2
Audiophile

Posts: 1521
Location: Great Lakes
Joined: August 28, 2001
 Have some high-mileage friends who like them, the Cambium version too, but I tried them and ended up back with hard, no-hole, saddles - Prologo on my carbon and ti road bikes and fi'zik on the fat-tire. My one concession to comfort is my old, cushy Selle Italia Flite Gel on my 29'er hard-tail.

 

RE: How do yo find the Ti ride?, posted on June 18, 2017 at 10:52:51
mitch2
Audiophile

Posts: 1521
Location: Great Lakes
Joined: August 28, 2001
 I have a Cannondale Evo High-Mod carbon and a 2005 Litespeed Solano Ti.
When I bought the Cannondale, I simply could not find any suitable reason to sell the Litespeed. I am lucky to have both.

The Cannondale is fast, responsive, great up hills and overall comfortable to ride.
The Litespeed is all of the above but a little less of each. However, riding the ti is like butter....so smooth. It is great for cruising and a fun alternative to carbon. I enjoy it every time I ride it. Not quite as fast, but a great option for longer trips and for anything self-contained. It is loaded with panniers and ready for a three-day brewery destination trip at the end of next week.



 

RE: Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?, posted on June 21, 2017 at 13:08:30
Bikeryder
Audiophile

Posts: 75
Location: MontrealWest
Joined: March 27, 2006



Long time cyclist with too many bikes, 3 steel road, 3 ti road. Pic of one of my steel bikes at the builder's shop.

 

RE: Is Anyone Here Into Cycling(I know "Sordidman" is)?, posted on June 21, 2017 at 22:26:27
slbenz
Audiophile

Posts: 541
Location: CA
Joined: October 11, 2003
 Just picked up a Specialized Diverge Elite DSW for Father's Day. Really like it. Much more comfortable than my Trek USPS road bike. And still almost as fast as my Trek on the flats. Hill climbing the Trek beats the Specialized. Probably because the Trek is six pounds lighter. But I really like having disc brakes on the Specialized. Just like my Trek Fuel EX7 full suspension mountain bike.

 

I just got back from the Tour Divide, is that a yes?, posted on June 22, 2017 at 09:33:10
Ralph
Manufacturer

Posts: 4769
Location: Minnesota
Joined: April 24, 2002
 The YT video below seems to express the best about the Tour Divide

2700 miles, 200,000 feet of climbing, Banff to the Mexican Boarder.

 

Mostly a road bike guy, but this is my fatty, posted on July 4, 2017 at 14:52:07
Lupus Salictarius
Audiophile

Posts: 175
Joined: July 24, 2001



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