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low coloration/high efficiency is it possible/

155.239.133.22
Posted on April 6, 2000 at 09:36:13
jazz1


 
I am looking for resonably efficient loudspeakers, around 100db/watt
my main criteria when listening to hifi is correct tonal balance from top to bottom, all the horn designs I have heard do not match this criteria, they also tend to be beamy, can anybody recomend such an animal.

 

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Re: low coloration/high efficiency is it possible/, posted on April 6, 2000 at 11:10:22
Kurt Strain


 
Avantgarde makes some fine horns that are very uncolored. Expensive though. See the reviews here. I never owned a horn until these largely due to lots of coloration I didn't like.

Kurt

 

Re: low coloration/high efficiency is it possible/, posted on April 6, 2000 at 11:29:45
Klipschead


 
I have the same criteria.

Try something with a tractrix horn configuration-

much better - you can have your cake and eat it too!

Dean,

 

Re: low coloration/high efficiency is it possible/---My Manifesto, posted on April 6, 2000 at 11:41:25
Tom Brennan


 
Jazz--Do it yourself. Horns need not beam ,well they
all beam but they needn't beam narrowly, you can
pick your polar pattern. Right now I have a
collection of horns and lenses that range from 60
degrees to 140 degrees in horizontal coverage. If I
want that spacious, "sound coming from way wide of
the speakers themselves" type of imaging I use my
140 degree lenses which bounce lots of sound off the
sidewalls. If I want a really tight, focused sound I
use my 60 degree constant directivity horns. What I
like best usually are my 90 degree Altec 511Bs.
Coloration is a sticky subject, some horns do add
coloration. Sometimes this is caused by the horn
flare itself vibrating, this is curable with solid
mounting and generous application of damping
material. Sometimes the speaker's polar pattern
gives a certain sound: I find the big Klipschs to be
a little "fierce" sounding in smaller rooms. This is
caused by the narrow pattern of the speaker, I
"cured' some LaScalas I once owned by replacing the
stock mid flares with the much wider pattern EV
SM-120A horn flares. The wider pattern directed less
of the energy straight at me and softened the sound.
And rectangular horns can cause discontnuities in
the bubble moving up the horn and can cause
colorations as can sound reflected back down the
horn when it exits the mouth. By many accounts
Edgar's round tractrix horns greatly help with the
last 2 problems, I'll soon know. But horns do sound
different than direct radiators and this is a good
thing not a bad thing ( remember that all your life
you've listened to direct radiators in TVs and
radios, DR sound becomes people's reference). I see
it this way; for all
their problems horns are the best we have. I
consider the constricted dynamics, poor clarity and
high distortion of direct radiators a coloration
too. The things that cue me into thinking recorded
music sounds like live music are hair-trigger
transients and vast dynamics and the ability to move
vast amounts of air instantly. Horns excell at this.
I think that with the coming of high powered amps
and the AR-1 high fidelity went down the wrong road.
How often do you hear audiophiles talking about the
great imaging and spacious soundstage of speaker
systems that are totaly incapable of actualy
sounding like real musical instruments, that have no
ability to put across the power and emotion of live
music? The modern conventional "high-end "
audiophile, trained by Harry Pearson, thinks of
sound in visual instead of auricle terms, they
listen to the soundstage instead of the instruments,
this is weird. I had my knee scoped Tuesday, I've
nothing better to do than to think about these things
:-)

 

what a great post tom...it really says it all (nt), posted on April 6, 2000 at 12:00:34
Klipschead


 
!

 

Re: low coloration/high efficiency is it possible/, posted on April 6, 2000 at 22:17:46
MTL


 
A lot of the vintage horns we come across are for PA use and they are designed to beam otherwise someone 100 ft away would not be able to hear the sound.Also they are usually made of metal or plastic as they have to be exposed to the elements.For home use I prefer a wood horn(no or little ringing)with a wide dispersion(no or little beaming)and use the priciple of diffraction......like the JBL 2397 or the TAD wood horns.I think the Edgar wood horns and the Avant-garde round horns should work well for home audio too.The big Altec horns are nice too but you have to "tame" them for dosmestic use.

 

Re: low coloration/high efficiency is it possible/---My Manifesto, posted on April 7, 2000 at 04:08:06
JAZZ1


 
hi, thanks for your post, my other question to you, as you seem to have lots of experience on this subject are the following.
Being a member of an audio club, I have listened to various horns build by our members, these design came from magazines such as speaker builder, and Lowthers, although I could hear the benefits of horns, such as dynamics, details(clarity)the drawback for me where always more than the benefits.
1)first due to the size of my room I cannot accomodate big enough
cabinets to give me enough bass using Lowther drive units
2)Integration of subwoofers to compensate for the slightly recessed bass, is a problem as the crossover point in reasonably sized
cabinets is too high.
Any comments would be appreciated

 

Agree with Kurt... (more), posted on April 7, 2000 at 04:13:00
Steven R. Rochlin


 
Kurt,

i agree that after hearing MANY horns it seems few are not colored or have that "cupped hands" sound. Once i heard the Avantgarde Acouctics loudspeaker (Uno) in my listening room i KNEW these were something very special. In fact i bought the review pair! Martin Colloms gave the Duos a rave review in S'phile and in fact the S'phile measurements were also proof how low distortion these loudspeakers are. Just my two cents.

Enjoy the music,

Steven R. Rochlin

 

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