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Please recommend crossover capacitor

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Posted on November 10, 2021 at 21:31:01
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 My system sounds a bit hard at the extreme high frequencies.
I would like to upgrade the tweeter capacitors - currently Solen Fast Cap.
I can't afford Duelund.
I'm open to everything including Russian
it can be a complete upgrade OR it can be a bypass cap. I just want to slightly soften up the etched high frequencies.

Thanks everyone :)

 

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Jupitor, posted on November 11, 2021 at 05:22:33
hawkmoon
Audiophile

Posts: 903
Location: cleveland
Joined: July 11, 2003
 Buy the best you can afford.

 

+1 on Jupiter, and, posted on November 11, 2021 at 06:08:02
Mats Gunnars
Audiophile

Posts: 387
Joined: May 7, 2006
 on your way there, why not try some oil caps, new or vintage.
Should be smoother than the Solens.
-Mats

 

RE: +1 on Jupiter, and, posted on November 11, 2021 at 10:05:59
DaveV
Audiophile

Posts: 513
Location: SC
Joined: December 26, 2009
 Based on lots of experience with equipment and speakers, IMHO your in the personal taste dept and suggestions are just that, suggestions.
Bright, dull or grit can come from anywhere along the chain so that's another consideration.
But I do remember that the black Solens with the white writing were very irritating to me in equipment and speakers.
I resorted to trying lots of different cap brands and types and found that price was not a factor in what I liked or didn't like and that some pretty inexpensive Polyester and Polyprop Caps can sound very good but quite possibly not in every location so it's trial and error.
Lots of people "voice" with tubes but I prefer to "voice" with caps because it's far less expensive.

 

IMHO your in the personal taste dept and suggestions are just that, suggestions., posted on November 11, 2021 at 10:35:43
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5370
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Agreed, Dave. Uber priced caps aren't as silly as uber priced wire, but they're a close second.

 

RE: Please recommend crossover capacitor, posted on November 11, 2021 at 13:05:25
hottattoo
Audiophile

Posts: 141
Location: New York
Joined: July 30, 2011
 Too bad you are on the other side of the pond, I have several makes of poly, oil caps that I would give you.

Some of the Russian oil caps ( from ebay ) can sound good, also some vintage oil GE, WE, can be had ( ebay ). Clarity, Mundorf etc. are also very good--but as mentioned, you are clearly in the personal taste dept.

 

RE: Please recommend crossover capacitor, posted on November 11, 2021 at 19:18:48
rogerh113
Audiophile

Posts: 507
Location: San Francisco South Bay
Joined: October 20, 2014



I put together crossovers for Altec 604 8G with Russian PIO bypassed by Russian teflon caps (off eBay). Very pleased with the result. Given that you have space, it is an excellent option, irrespective of price. The upside is that the price is low, rather than it being a 'cheap solution'.

 

Well done. (nt), posted on November 12, 2021 at 05:28:31
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1346
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 nt
Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

RE: Please recommend crossover capacitor, posted on November 13, 2021 at 00:42:43
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 Well, following some friends advice and after some research, I've decided to first try to bypass the Solen - before swapping them out completely eventually

so I've ordered a pair of super nice (and not cheap) Miflex KPCU 0.1uF to bypass the last Solen in line before the tweeter.

I'm also tempted to try the Russian K75-10. Maybe I could try a K75-10 bypass in the previous caps in line (it's a third order network)? That would mean bypassing a 50uF cap, what value should I choose for that? 0.1uF seems a but low. Should I use 0.47uF to keep it a 1/100th ratio?

 

Bit puzzled by the resistor array connections, posted on November 13, 2021 at 11:37:18
Edp
Audiophile

Posts: 4501
Joined: September 23, 1999
 I'm bit puzzled by the 4 resistor array on the high frequency driver portion


As I read high pass section

Cap/bi-pass series, inductor parallel, cap/bi-pass series, then, cap/bi-pass series, resistor bypass of "cap/bi-pass, resistor parallel, resistor series", and lastly resistor parallel

I'm missing something in the arrangement and connections of the final three resistors and last cap/bypass

Not saying anything is wrong just trying to pick up others approach to neat and tidy xover arrangement

(Plus it took me four trys at this post to sort out things better narrowed down my confusion to the "last cap, parallel resistor, resistor series, all series bypassed by resistor" portion)

 

RE: Bit puzzled by the resistor array connections, posted on November 13, 2021 at 11:49:46
rogerh113
Audiophile

Posts: 507
Location: San Francisco South Bay
Joined: October 20, 2014
 It is a phase corrected x-over by Markwart. Looks like he has a more sophisticated adjustable version now - here is the link. Just replace the resistor and pot with a resistor, and you likely have what I built. Value changes for 8G are listed in the notes.

https://greatplainsaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/604-8h_gsmpl.pdf

Hope that helps. Always useful to give some careful thought to layout. Simpler is generally functionally better, and usually more elegant. Even if it ends up getting stuffed inside the cabinet, there is still the satisfaction of doing a good job.

 

Agreed on the reason for tidy, posted on November 14, 2021 at 08:51:55
Edp
Audiophile

Posts: 4501
Joined: September 23, 1999
 Even get a bit of fun out of juggling the conflicts of space limitations vs component layout vs avoid field interactions and ability to "read the crossover" over time for future tweaks or mods.

Space limitations are probably not a big concern for folks dealing with Altec based enclosures

Think the oddest one is on my custom in walls. Put them linear on a wood yardstick. Pull the woofer, then pull out the yardstick when modifying

Been awhile since coming across phase related circuits. Thanks for info

 

RE: Please recommend crossover capacitor, posted on November 16, 2021 at 00:26:54
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 I'm sure those sound great but I wanted to keep the original crossover plates and so the shape and size of the caps shouldn't stray too far from the original Solen; stacking a Miflex bypass on top of the Solen is even easier.

I did however order a few K75-10 to bypass the previous caps in line in the circuit. I will experiment. I'm all for great sounding, low cost solutions (my whole system is based on those)

 

RE: Please recommend crossover capacitor, posted on November 18, 2021 at 23:26:25
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 So the Miflex 0.1uF arrived yesterday.

I did have time to temporarily try one using crocodile pliers
Immediately there was an obvious increase in openness on the concerned speaker but also an increase in high frequencies.

Well of course I suppose it will smoothen up with some burn in. Hopefully I will have a little bit time to install them properly over the weekend!

The K75-10 Russians are on their way from Ukraine and will take some time to be here. Probably the Miflex burn-in period will be over by then. I'm starting to think the combination (K75-10 bypassing the first 50uF caps, Miflex KPCU bypassing the last cap) might just be very complementary and nice - but we will see!

 

RE: Please recommend crossover capacitor, posted on November 19, 2021 at 06:09:40
rogerh113
Audiophile

Posts: 507
Location: San Francisco South Bay
Joined: October 20, 2014
 Good to hear there was positive movement in the sound. It will be interesting to hear your comparison of the two bypass capacitors. Not that capacitors sound different, of course : )))

I understand that you want to retain your speaker input configuration. That does not preclude a larger crossover, depending on the size of your cabinets and access (perhaps via a woofer hole). Running a twisted pair from the inside back of the speaker lugs to a crossover mounted on the base of the cabinet would likely work fine.

 

RE: Please recommend crossover capacitor, posted on November 25, 2021 at 23:39:51
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 Two days ago, the K75-10 capacitors arrived
I installed them in the networks and at first, they were overly rolled off, but now they seem to be opening up very nicely... no doubt it will keep on changing

The 3rd order filter on the tweeter is now like this: first a pair of 24uF Solen, bypassed with 0.47uF K75-10 ; then a 2,2uF Hovland Musicap (no bypass); then a pair of Solen 3,6uF, bypassed with 0,1uF Miflex KPCU.

 

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