High Efficiency Speaker Asylum

Need speakers that can rock with just one watt? You found da place.

Return to High Efficiency Speaker Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

Electrostats are slow

98.144.114.174
Posted on November 24, 2020 at 18:26:47
PaulF70
Audiophile

Posts: 1424
Location: Midwest
Joined: June 30, 2006
 compared to high-efficiecy widebanders (Lowthers) front and rear-loaded.

Who agrees with me?

(I have a perfectly-restored pair of Quad 57s and several of the best backhorns ever built here right now.)

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 24, 2020 at 18:59:53
rivervalley817
 well that's a loaded question

slow as in repro of transients? I would disagree

the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is

panels, as the term is commonly used, have wider bandwidth than Lowthers

'cleaner' at volume too ...

those little Lowthers get congested pretty quick above certain Db thresholds ... nice for near field if you're listening to little girl with guitar music or can live without the bottom octave of a piano though

be well,



 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 24, 2020 at 19:09:40
PaulF70
Audiophile

Posts: 1424
Location: Midwest
Joined: June 30, 2006
 I was talking about horn-loaded Lowthers as I'm pretty sure I mentioned.

"the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is"

That's actually not the whole story, but how much does an ESL membrane travel compared to a horn-loaded Lowther cone?

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 24, 2020 at 19:10:59
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 For sure. They're so slow that a song played in 'A' is heard in 'G'.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 24, 2020 at 19:17:32
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 The further a membrane/cone travels the louder the speaker plays.

The entire notion of fast and slow speakers is audiophile nonsense, with no basis in engineering fact. They use the terms to describe something which they can't describe in engineering terms because they lack the engineering knowledge required to do so.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 24, 2020 at 19:41:32
PaulF70
Audiophile

Posts: 1424
Location: Midwest
Joined: June 30, 2006
 We agree, more or less.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 24, 2020 at 19:46:24
Alpha Al
Industry Professional

Posts: 2958
Location: N. Carolina
Joined: February 16, 2004
Contributor
  Since: December 3, 2015
 I think they're referring to transient response, how fast they can initiate a waveform. In that realm, I would think electrostats would be "faster".

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 24, 2020 at 20:15:18
PaulF70
Audiophile

Posts: 1424
Location: Midwest
Joined: June 30, 2006
 You would think? Why? Having a thought is irrelevant in itself.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 24, 2020 at 20:16:15
rivervalley817
 that's my observation for transient response

I didn't know what he meant by speed so I qualified it as such

the panel is more adept at sympathetically exciting the air around it in the mid-range bandwidth where 'speed' might be a perception than his Lowther ... since that's based on a moving piston it's excursion recovery cycle becomes the limiting factor in producing those frequencies, whereas the panels ... bah, I'm not going into that

panels simply do transients better

with regards,



 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 24, 2020 at 20:30:22
PaulF70
Audiophile

Posts: 1424
Location: Midwest
Joined: June 30, 2006
 Can I ask, have you heard a front-and-rear-loaded Lowther?

Your statement is immaterial without qualification. Transient fidelity is a function of membrane acceleration which is a function of membrane weight, surface area, and magnet strength. Do you know these figures for an ESL and a Lowther? Do you know how horn-loading affects the figures, at various frequencies?

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 24, 2020 at 20:34:46
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4310
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 Acceleration, the ability to follow wave forms is a function of power to weight ratio. Electrostatics are very light per area but their motors are weak relative to dynamic drivers. This is inevitable because motor power diminishes rapidly over distance and the gap of an electrostatic is huge compared to a conventional driver. It has to be so the driver has room to move without hitting the motor. In contrast the coil of a regular driver fits in a very narrow gap.

In addition while a planar is light per area dynamic drivers while heavy are their moving parts are still quite light. Domes are a couple of grams. Even woofers weigh(off the top of my head) ounces. So their powerful motors with still light weight give a very good power to weight ratio. Sorry I wish I had numbers for comparisons. That would be interesting.

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 24, 2020 at 21:09:08
PaulF70
Audiophile

Posts: 1424
Location: Midwest
Joined: June 30, 2006
 I think you've got it.

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 24, 2020 at 21:09:23
PaulF70
Audiophile

Posts: 1424
Location: Midwest
Joined: June 30, 2006
 :)

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 24, 2020 at 21:24:58
rivervalley817
 I've heard them and yours was a loaded question, I just offered my opinion

there's quite a few other things involved in the physics of cone drivers that are entirely design dependant, and I'm confident that you're aware of this but ... whatever

you're obviously enamored of them so enjoy your system

though Feastrex makes better drivers yours are OK ; )

be well,




 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 24, 2020 at 21:43:40
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4310
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 Without numbers I'm not sure they are slow but it's not obvious that electrostatics are so fast like their lovers claim is obvious;it's not.
Like I said I'd love to see real math.

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 24, 2020 at 23:02:24
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 I do know that I never cared for most entry level Martin Logans (they were the rage in Belgium 15 years ago) as I always found them lazy and plasticky sounding.
But I never heard the higher end models, I never heard big QUADs, or soundLabs, and I may all be surprised.
Until then, I still consider ESL panels to be boring as hell, I'm not sure speed has anything to do with it but could be.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the ', posted on November 25, 2020 at 01:08:19
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 7551
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
 Lowther have a well known upper mid range peak and are therfore unlistenable.

I apologize as my tone and forced inflection for discussion imitates your prattle.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 25, 2020 at 03:55:02
B. Scarpia
 12 lb. motor. Super light paper cone. 8 mm. Xmax.

Good enough for me.

 

I think they're referring to transient response, posted on November 25, 2020 at 05:54:31
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 If that's what they're referring to then that's what they should say. Where transient response is concerned an electrostat tends to be better than a horn. It has less to do with the driver Mms than with the increased system inertia created by the air load within the horn.

 

Is 'loud' an engineering term?, posted on November 25, 2020 at 05:54:41
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 AFAF


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 25, 2020 at 07:08:30
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 Plasma drivers are the fastest drivers to respond then Electrostat and ribbons. I have a pair of Stax in ear monitors with one micron Mylar diaphragms. These three types of loudspeakers are the very best at transient response and the electrostat is the most efficient but unfortunately it's capacitance makes it hard to drive.
moray james

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 25, 2020 at 11:13:16
rivervalley817
 oh yeah! let's see the math!

[kidding]

I'll tell you what's hard to drive ... my wife!

slow down, you took the wrong turn, I've got to pee, you always choose the radio station, did you turn off the coffee pot? speed up everyone's passing you, I hate driving next to trucks, why are you so quiet are you mad?

goddamn right I am

regards,

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 25, 2020 at 17:19:53
PaulF70
Audiophile

Posts: 1424
Location: Midwest
Joined: June 30, 2006
 No mention of Lowthers? Do you own any?

Have any math (unrelated to your wife) to back up your claims?

What frequency range are we talking about?

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the ', posted on November 25, 2020 at 17:21:41
PaulF70
Audiophile

Posts: 1424
Location: Midwest
Joined: June 30, 2006
 LOL. Unrelated to the question at hand, and not entirely true.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 25, 2020 at 17:23:47
PaulF70
Audiophile

Posts: 1424
Location: Midwest
Joined: June 30, 2006
 Feastrex are among the best wideband drivers for sure.

I'd like to hear field-coil Lowthers against them side-by-side some day.

But the enclosure is just as important. All wideband dynamic drivers have a rising respond and need to be horn-loaded both front and rear - just as Lowthers were always used before modern times.

Look at the TP1 and Opus.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 25, 2020 at 18:09:04
rivervalley817
 you really know your stuff, much respect from moi`

of course I was tweaking you a bit there

and, you're a good sport!

I've listened to enough superb gear that I can't afford that I should be a reviewer! ... I've got nearly all the tools, including purple prose!

alas, neither the room and not nearly enough dosh

you and yours have a great Thanksgiving!

with regards,



 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 25, 2020 at 19:57:47
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Lowthers aren't all that special. There are quite a few very low Qes low Mms high sensitivity drivers. While their Mms is low as far as the average cone driver is concerned it's high compared to the average planar driver, massive compared to a ribbon.

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 25, 2020 at 20:35:07
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4310
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 sounds like a big motor. Size usually correlates but what matters is the lines of magnetic flux in the gap and ultimately you need that to really know.

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 25, 2020 at 20:57:20
rivervalley817
 the nicest sounding wide band driver I've heard in the last 6 or 7 years was the Audio Nirvana 12" neodymium unit ... it was mounted in an OB set up in a pretty nice room ... a little 'over damped' with wall hangings IMO but nice

I understand those are very good performers when horn loaded, yet reminded me of the old western electric speakers I heard when I was a kid. I say reminded because I tested near 15khz about 10 years ago. my ears had to have been a lot sharper as a youth; I hope so anyway

I can sure tell the hearing's falling off pretty fast these days though

bummer

ah well, Happy Thanksgiving to you sir!

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 25, 2020 at 22:53:46
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 here is a good book you can read. https://www.routledge.com/Loudspeaker-and-Headphone-Handbook/Borwick/p/book/9780240522760
3rd Edition
Loudspeaker and Headphone Handbook
Edited By John Borwick
Copyright Year 2001

ISBN 9780240522760

I have been interested in Lowther's and Fostex (I experimented with a number of these)in the distant past and almost bought a set of AER full range drivers a long time ago. I co design the Highwood audio point source planar loudspeaker and bring it to market, sold under the Sumo Audio banner as the Sumo Aria many years ago.
moray james

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 26, 2020 at 05:23:38
Tom Brennan
Audiophile

Posts: 5854
Joined: January 2, 2000
 I think this whole fast-slow business is bullshit.

Subjectively, when I dehorned some years back I found electrostatic speakers matched horns in clarity and liveliness (within their dynamic limitations of course) and settled on Martin Logan hybrids using stats for mids and treble with dynamic woofers.

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 26, 2020 at 10:03:52
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 stats horns and ribbons (we will exclude plasma due to the numerous issues)are the top of the heap when it comes to transient response and they can sound very similar.
moray james

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 26, 2020 at 17:59:33
George S. Roland
Audiophile

Posts: 1470
Location: N W Pennsylvania
Joined: March 20, 2004
 Are you trying to court controversy? Slow compared to what? Quads ESLs have diaphragms of incredible thinness and low in mass so that they are able to reproduce a square wave fairly well. I know of no dynamic driver capable of such speed and accuracy.

 

RE: I went exactly the other way, posted on November 27, 2020 at 04:32:06
B. Scarpia
 When the Acoustat 2+2's were gone, they had become "fungible", I went to compression driver/horns/bass reflex. You helped at the first mid-West Audio Fest in Lima.

Many years later, still happy.

4 Pis, now, with sand box stands.



 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 27, 2020 at 07:05:10
Retsel
Audiophile

Posts: 1239
Joined: April 17, 2000
 The usual explanation for why some speakers sound "faster" than others is a good one, that a speaker with a lower Q will sound faster because the bass rolls off more than a higher Q woofer. Thus, the lower Q woofer is reproducing more treble, which of course is of higher frequency and will naturally sound "faster" than the high Q woofer which is reproducing more bass.

Now try something like this. I ran a 100 hz sine wave from a frequency generator through a high Q (0.9 if I remember correctly), aluminum cone subwoofer cone and the same 100 hz signal through a Lowther DX4. The 100 hz frequency is below the breakup modes of both the Lowther and that aluminum cone woofer, and certainly should be well within the frequency range that is reproducible by the subwoofer cone. But the 100 hz sinewave signal through the Lowther sounded a lot clearer than it did through the aluminum cone subwoofer. This experiment is not hard to do. If you don't have a Lowther, than any low Q midrange driver would work.

This difference is real, but what engineering principal would you call this? I don't know what to call it, but I think that this is what people label fast versus slow.

Retsel

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 27, 2020 at 07:58:12
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Low Q results in high sensitivity in the mids, and a high F3. Some may call the result fast, I'd call it thin. With high Q sensitivity is lost in the lows, while it's increased in the midbass. The usual subjective term to describe that result is boomy. The term that really should leave one scratching their head is 'fast bass'. I've yet to see a logical engineering based explanation of what that's supposed to be or how to achieve it.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the ', posted on November 27, 2020 at 08:09:20
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 7551
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
 Not entirely true...? The relation involved speed of a given transducer and using your pretzel logic ...The idea concerns the wavelength launch for a given frequency is faster... Ridiculous, unless one is employing semantics...are you gainfully employed? No one made mention of ion plasma design which OBVIOUSLY only uses air as THE transducer, ergo the fastest with lowest distortion... End of story. Your navel aviation art is tantamount to click bait. I have no use for your staged egocenticity. Horn load your shreiking Loathers for lower distortion, that much is obvious even to you. Furthermore, try to enjoy the music whatever you choose as a transducer.


The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 27, 2020 at 11:19:56
hottattoo
Audiophile

Posts: 141
Location: New York
Joined: July 30, 2011
 First and foremost, you have to be happy with the music reproduced by whatever speakers you choose. I too, had 2 pairs of EL 57"s and a pair of El 63's. These electrostats, overall, sounded VG ( midrange) at lower levels with little in the way of dynamics. I also had 2 + 2's, 3 pairs of various Maggies and own 4 pairs of various Lowthers. I also have a pair of Raal Lazy Ribbon tweeters to dick around with, when I have some time. This "speed' thing falls basically to the laws of Physics plus some other driver parameters, like construction, selected materials etc. We are not at an Indy 500 race, we want the best musical reproduction possible. The "speed" of the driver--both acceleration and STOP is very important. IMHO, field coil compression drivers with Beryllium diaphragms are very tough to beat. I am sure this debate is far from over!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klR5nwNNJgE

Happy listening.
Joe

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 27, 2020 at 13:23:34
Retsel
Audiophile

Posts: 1239
Joined: April 17, 2000
 Again, a light-coned, low Q Lowther seems to do a (much?) better job reproducing a 100 hz signal, which is smack middle of the bass range, than a heavy, high Q aluminum coned woofer. I agree that you cannot call that fast bass, but what do you call it? Better articulation?

I don't remember how each driver fared with square wave, which I think I tried, but if the Lowther can reproduce a square wave better, then maybe we can simply call it distortion because the high Q woofer cannot follow the wave form as well.

These effects were clearly audible, but I did not take any measurements so I cannot point to any data per se. But this experiment is so easy to do, if others don't want to trust my experience, then they should do it themselves. I am interested in the experience of others with this.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 27, 2020 at 15:19:55
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Without measured data there's no telling what actually occurred. I suspect the actual content at 100Hz was considerably greater with the high Q driver, while the second and third harmonic content at 200 and 300Hz was considerably greater with the low Q driver. You wouldn't even need to measure the result to determine if that's the case, it would show up clearly with speaker modeling software.

 

Do we have a troll here? /nt\, posted on November 28, 2020 at 07:16:51
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014




Opus 33 1/3

 

RE: Electrostats are slow, posted on November 28, 2020 at 08:23:38
bare
Audiophile

Posts: 1879
Joined: April 14, 2009
 Remember Dr F Toole once stating publically... that Martin Logans were the Worst Speakers he had ever tested.
But then what would he base That opinion on :-)

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 28, 2020 at 18:29:29
Retsel
Audiophile

Posts: 1239
Joined: April 17, 2000
 Of course that is the reason, which is why 9/10 audiophiles prefer subwoofer drivers for reproducing their midbass ;)

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 28, 2020 at 18:59:12
rivervalley817
 strewth! not sure how you found time to meet 9 out 10 audiophiles but there should be at least 5/10 of the self professed I've met hanging their heads in shame or fiddling with their crossovers if they read this

regards,

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 29, 2020 at 13:44:37
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Want to become an audiophile? Cut a half inch hole in your pants pocket. Walk downtown to the nearest toy store, buy a bag of marbles. Take the marbles out of the bag, put them in the pocket with the hole and start walking home. As you're walking one by one the marbles will fall through the hole. When you've lost all your marbles, congratulations! You are now an audiophile!

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on November 29, 2020 at 13:57:29
rivervalley817
 oh, cool! do you give away plans for this on your web-site, you know, pocket volume, hole size, marble radius specs etc. ??

[oops, in my excitement I missed that the hole size is mentioned above]

I'd like to get this right the first time out since I'm running low on pants that fit me ... if they're for sale I'll consider a modest fee

thanks in advance!

well, I suppose I could go look, back in a minute ... , ... , ...

OK, no mention at all of this tweak there, I think you're pulling my leg!

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on December 5, 2020 at 08:57:14
Don Reid
Audiophile

Posts: 890
Location: Rural NW Georgia
Joined: February 2, 2001
Contributor
  Since: April 1, 2010
 Years ago when I used 2+2s I read that they had a plastic sound. I didn't hear that. Now that I use Oris 150 ABS plastic horns with horn woofers and super tweeters I am told by fellow horn devotees that plastic horns have a plastic sound. I still don't hear it. Can anyone tell me how a "plastic" sound sounds and what it is? Is it some sort of frequency aberration or what?
I dream of an America where a chicken can cross the road without having it's motives questioned.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on December 5, 2020 at 09:33:50
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 There's no plastic sound, unless you hit it with a stick. Claims to the contrary are from those who listen with their eyes. You know...audiophiles.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on December 5, 2020 at 10:42:09
rivervalley817
 since my handle is attached to the post I will posit that no, that cannot be described. those that think they can are projecting an expectation bias and are fooling themselves. with the caveat that one or the other of the horns aren't properly damped and sympathetic vibrations are heard, that can be discerned, as different materials sport different absorptive and vibration characteristics that one might consider 'signature'

as a for instance, in a HF horn made of wood many are coated with resins to smooth and protect ... plastics are extruded resins ... both have 'slick' surfaces ... *shrug* ... they now have surfaces with more commonalities than differences, damping would null those differences

different compression drivers use various diaphragm materials ... metal, ceramics, metalized plastics, coated this that and the other thing ... I'm extremely skeptical that even the most discerning guru could tell them apart not knowing their composition ... if it's engineered well and functioning properly they're all reproducing waveforms in a frequency range and that's what you're hearing, really nothing else

you'd be hard pressed to find descriptions of panel transducers as sounding like plastic despite their composition if they're working properly ... none I would find credible anyway ... same goes for various ribbon tweeters, metal, treated plastic & paper etc., if they're working well you're hearing program material, not the transducer. dome tweeters will display different characteristic though, that's audible depending on material composition due to inherent self damping, but treated cloth tweets sound like 'silk dome' tweets enough the commonalities exceed differences. you'll 'hear plastic' here though, even if you can't 'put your finger' on what you're perceiving, there's a 'tell'.

differences in cone drivers used for wide bandwidth has been covered ... but can the differences between magnet composition be audible all things being equal? ... do you know of anyone who can honestly say they can hear different flavors of alnico or ferrite? I have. did I believe them? no, because they were wrong nearly every time beyond the statistical odds of being right

man, this thread took a train eh?

with regards,

 

Yes, posted on December 7, 2020 at 08:39:18
jimbill
Audiophile

Posts: 3050
Location: Texas
Joined: May 31, 2004
 You should listen to the higher end models.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on December 11, 2020 at 07:23:27
Retsel
Audiophile

Posts: 1239
Joined: April 17, 2000
 I don't know what a plastic horn sounds like, but you have one so you can tell us. Rap on it with your knuckles and listen to what you hear. Front horns are bells and the sound created by the driver will transfer through the frame to whatever it is attached to and then on from there. Since the front horn is so large, there is a lot of opportunity to amplify this unwanted sound. I am not saying that this why your system sounds like "plastic," but I am saying that you have the opportunity for creating these unwanted, amplified sounds and they should be addressed.

You can do two things to reduce the sound transfer and amplification by the front horn. Decouple the driver frame to what it is mounted to using something like a rubber gasket - the thicker the better. Better yet, mount the driver by itself and the horn by itself just in front of the driver using a separate mounting device, and use some sort of very lossy gasket material between them. This will reduce the transfer of sound from the driver frame to the bell of the horn. Then, make sure that the plastic bell of the horn is well damped.

I have my Lowthers mounted in front waveguides made out of cardboard (conventional cardboard - perhaps 1/4 inch thick). Cardboard is wonderful stuff for a waveguide because it has such great internal damping - it just is too flimsy and looks like crap. My cardboard waveguides likely amplify these unwanted sounds less than your plastic horns. Once I have settled on the final configuration, I will need to make the waveguides out of something more permanent and something with a nice rounded mouth termination, and I have not yet figured out for sure what that material will be, but I am very concerned that it will sound worse than what I have. It will be some sort of homemade 30x60 waveguide (I enjoy making things and I don't believe in spending a lot on audio).

Retsel

 

Re: Front horns are bells... , posted on December 11, 2020 at 08:29:25
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Horns are not bells. They look like bells, but they don't act like bells. Read Don's post again. Nowhere does he say that his plastic horns have a 'plastic horn' sound. He says the opposite.

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on December 18, 2020 at 08:14:24
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17305
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 "unless you hit it with a stick"

When you play signal into the voice coil of the driver attached to the plastic horn isn't that what you are doing?

Or are you saying that simply playing it isn't enough to excite the resonance? My Altec 511 horns rang like a bell and I didn't have to hit them with a stick.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: "the less a transducer travels generating waveforms the 'faster' it is", posted on December 18, 2020 at 09:02:36
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 "When you play signal into the voice coil of the driver attached to the plastic horn isn't that what you are doing?"

No, it isn't. A horn works just like the output transformer of a tube amp. It takes the high impedance driver and better matches it to the low impedance load of the air. An 8 ohm driver might not seem to be high impedance, but it's still hundreds of times higher than air.

 

Page processed in 0.047 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]