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Finally, on Monday...

94.111.40.237
Posted on July 5, 2020 at 02:21:56
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 ... I will be able, together with a good friend of mine, to go and listen to the new Klipsch Cornwall IV at an authorized dealer!
We are both quite excited as this is something we've been planning for months and kept being postponed due to various things (Coronavirus being one of them of course...)

My friend is a potential buyer, so the trip is even more meaningful.

I will report back here afterwards!

 

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RE: Finally, on Monday..., posted on July 5, 2020 at 03:39:45
vinnie2
Audiophile

Posts: 4481
Location: North Carolina
Joined: September 28, 2013
 I hope the highs on the new model are not so abrasive as they seem to be on the older models. I bought a pair 15 years ago and had to sell after about 6 months because the highs seemed downright harsh to me. Other than that I loved them. Great bass and mids. Good luck!

 

RE: Finally, on Monday..., posted on July 5, 2020 at 05:26:32
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2382
Joined: September 27, 2004
 I hope you enjoy those speakers. I've heard mention of Klipsch numerous time over many years, but never seen one face to face. They are very low cost for their size and spec even in the UK where the list price hasn't been boosted too much at GDP 6500 inc 20% VAT.

They aren't exactly attractive but have a quaint and very 1960s look about them - plain rectangular box with grill cloth covering the front panel with a brand label attached - very Wharfedale / Goodmans / Acoustic Research. The use of 15" bass driver is also rather out of favour now - pity really. My early Wharfedale Airedales had 15" bass units, but nothing I've had since has had more than twin 10".

Please let us know how they sound.

 

RE: Finally, on Monday..., posted on July 5, 2020 at 08:49:44
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 Well, to me they are absolutely beautiful - I genuinely hate the likes of Vivid Audio looks - and 15inch is the right size of woofer in my book.
But they're not for me, I'm happy with my homemade system, my friend might want to buy them, we will see ;-)

 

RE: Finally, on Monday..., posted on July 5, 2020 at 08:51:03
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 The mid and highs on the last model are worlds apart from the old models, you can see it immediately, and immediately understand (if you are into horn) by looking at the horns that it will sound considerably better!

 

Cornwall IV Horn resonance, posted on July 5, 2020 at 12:34:07
Jon L
Audiophile

Posts: 6064
Joined: April 6, 2000
 This video explains how he was able to tame forward/aggressive sound of Cornwall IV by damping the ringy platic horns with Dynamat.

Also, CW IV reportedly sounds much worse when turned up loud, presumably due to horn housing resonance and probably also due to the iron-core inductors in crossover.

So try turning up the volume at the audition and maybe try to compare with Forte III and Heresy IV for our benefit?

 

RE: Cornwall IV Horn resonance, posted on July 5, 2020 at 12:38:05
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I'm interested in the Forte III and may end up going to LA for an audiition if the plague abates for a time......
Too much is never enough

 

does Klipsch seriously still have horn resonance issues with Cornies?, posted on July 5, 2020 at 13:34:51
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16018
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since: October 23, 2016
 That's been a problem since the originals. It's part of their ear-gouging heritage -- but only part. :( Hard to believe they wouldn't have fixed this.

I did live with a pair (mine from 1974)for a decade, so I do feel qualified to comment on them, at least from an historical perspective.


all the best,
mrh

 

Forte III. Luckily..., posted on July 5, 2020 at 20:14:04
Jon L
Audiophile

Posts: 6064
Joined: April 6, 2000

There already exist Forte III upgrade kit if interested...

 

RE: Forte III. Luckily..., posted on July 5, 2020 at 22:04:52
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I don't have the patients to sit thru a 20+ minute video the first 10 of which is rambling nonsense.

I skipped thru the rest and STILL have no idea except 'we change parts and wires'. Never saw an IMAGE of before, let alone 'after'.....
Too much is never enough

 

A decade?, posted on July 6, 2020 at 05:24:22
Salectric
Audiophile

Posts: 1358
Location: East Coast
Joined: February 23, 2003
 Mark,

How were you able to live with the Cornwalls for a decade? I am not criticizing; I am just wondering how that was possible. I can't imagine tolerating an "ear gouging" speaker for any length of time.

I have only heard Klipsch speakers on two occasions. The first was a set of LaScalas at a recent CAF. The piercing, shrieking highs were so bad I turned right around and left. The second time was a set of original Cornwalls at DejaVu Audio. Despite the careful setup and compatible tube amps, the highs were also piercing. I could appreciate the excellent bass and imaging but there was no way I could listen to them for more than a couple minutes. So my two experiences hardly qualify me as a Klipsch expert but they do give me a very good sense of what "ear gouging" highs sound like.

 

RE: Forte III modification, posted on July 6, 2020 at 07:33:13
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6604
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 Hey pictureguy,

You may not be aware but Danny Richie has a very solid reputation for his speaker designs and upgrades. If you have the patience to wait through the pandemic for a chance to drive to LA for an audition then it seems it would be worth your time to sit through the video.

The Forte III is on my list for speaker options in my new rec room system if my modded Maggies don't work out. I thought I might have that resolved by now but the set up continues to be delayed for a variety of reasons. Anyway, while I've not heard them, I expect the only way I'd choose the Fortes would be with the mod upgrade.

Good luck.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

RE: Cornwall IV Horn resonance , posted on July 6, 2020 at 09:07:53
Iain42
Reviewer

Posts: 895
Location: Arcansaw
Joined: February 10, 2004
 If you screw down a horn it does not ring. To get enough acoustic energy through one of these horns to cause that issue is truly frightening.



High sensitivity, wide dynamic range, low distortion, and smooth frequency response. Pwk

http://www.itishifi.com

 

Photos and Measurements, posted on July 6, 2020 at 09:14:49
Jon L
Audiophile

Posts: 6064
Joined: April 6, 2000



Photos and measurements of Forte III mods are well documented at the link below. Mainly, the horns are damped, crossover upgraded, and bracing added to cabinet.

This is photo of the stock crossover, with all its iron-core inductors.

 

"Drive to LA"?, posted on July 6, 2020 at 09:18:32
Jon L
Audiophile

Posts: 6064
Joined: April 6, 2000
 LA as in Los Angeles? I thought GR Research was located in Texas, no?

 

RE: Cornwall IV Horn resonance, posted on July 6, 2020 at 09:30:52
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 Jon L Try placing a piece of dynamat on either side of the tweeter butterfly tab. Cove the full tab and leave the metal terminals sticking out. This tab rings like a doorbell.
moray james

 

RE: Photos and Measurements, posted on July 6, 2020 at 09:38:17
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I don't like the inductor layout. And SIX of 'em? This goes to a 3-way speaker, right?
No wonder Stereophile measured the real sensitivity at about 1/2 the Klipsch claim.

Bracing the cab and damping the horns? This SHOULD be done to perfection, especially considering the 2 grand EACH selling point. It's disappointing to think they need such treatment.

And Sorry, I Simply can't sit thru vids like that any more. The first 10 minutes or so? Blah,Blah, Blah followed by a meandering thru the woods. Give me a couple hours with this guy and I'd help write a tighter script and cut out the BS.
I'm a photographer in my leisure time. And you should SEE the crap that passes for 'help' vids in THAT part of the world. I find 2 types particularly irksome. The first is the guy sitting at a table or desk with a mountain of stuff. I think I'm supposed to be impressed. He picks things up and gabs about 'em. NO photos. Nothing measured, but maybe a quote from factory specs and if he is 'comparing' stuff, he'll put it side by side so you can SEE.
The other review is the guy walking around taking pictures and yakking. If they do NOT use a strap on what is probably a fairly $$$ kit? Next Vid, Please.

I'll check out the Forte III Link....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Finally, on Monday..., posted on July 6, 2020 at 10:33:37
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2382
Joined: September 27, 2004
 It would worry me to be buying speakers that so many people seem to want to "improve" by modifications.

Take a look at the large number of Youtube videos of mods to those speakers. Why doesn't Klipsch build it properly in the first place? That's maybe a bit cruel and condescending, but you must ask the question. If these amateur mods truly do improve the sound and if they are as low cost as suggested, why does anyone buy these speakers in the first place?

Out of interest and for comparison, I've searched high and low on Youtube to find any videos of mods for my own speakers, but I've drawn a blank. Surprising perhaps because I've made mods myself although these were to improve their appearance (see link), rather than attempt to improve sound quality. I truly don't believe the "amateur" could improve the sound quality apart perhaps from changing what they stand on.

I view this absence of Youtube mods both rewarding (I've bought bloody good speakers) and disappointing in that no one seems able to improve them - I'd really have enjoyed the challenge!

 

The reason is .................., posted on July 6, 2020 at 14:20:11
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18286
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 Klipsch Speakers have been around for over 50 years, and were 'Mass Marketed'. Which means they used cheaper components. So, Customizing and Upgrading them was not that Difficult. It was not an Audiophile Market.

I am still using Klipschorn Bass Bins with my Oris Horn Speakers. But I am not using anything other than the Cabinets and Woofers.

Not that hard to understand. With that said, I would not be interested in those speakers at $6K MSRP. And I would not be interested in the Speakers that you have either for the Price, as I could do much better. But, to each his own.




 

RE: The reason is .................., posted on July 7, 2020 at 04:06:01
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2382
Joined: September 27, 2004
 > Klipsch Speakers have been around for over 50 years, and were 'Mass Marketed'. Which means they used cheaper components. So, Customizing and Upgrading them was not that Difficult. It was not an Audiophile Market

Yes, but if not "audiophile", why build huge $6K speakers for the non-audiophile buyer? Surely the latter don't spend that much or want such big speakers?

> Not that hard to understand. With that said, I would not be interested in those speakers at $6K MSRP.

You seem to have missed my point. If these reasonably costly speakers can be cheaply and easily modified to improve their performance by amateurs, why does Klipsch not do the decent thing and incorporate these mods (if in fact they improve sound quality) before they leave the factory?

> And I would not be interested in the Speakers that you have either for the Price, as I could do much better.

Well I don't think you could in my particular listening room. Yes, they are hideously costly, but they won't need mods and I know from using older AGs (Unos and Duos) since about 2002 that the new ones will offer astonishing quality at high and low volume levels. I've had other types of speaker here (electrostatic and boxed) but none has offered anything like the sound quality I enjoy. And they hold their value far better than most brands if bought carefully.

> But, to each his own.

I'm pleased we agree on something!

 

RE: The reason is .................., posted on July 7, 2020 at 04:18:09
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18286
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 "Yes, but if not "audiophile", why build huge $6K speakers for the non-audiophile buyer? Surely the latter don't spend that much or want such big speakers?"

There are a lot of people with $6K laying around that just want to 'throw money at the problem'. Companies that are interested in profits, happily oblige them.



 

Audition, posted on July 7, 2020 at 06:48:36
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6604
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 GR Research is in TX.

I was referring to picturguy's statement about driving to LA for a dealer who sells them to audition the stock speakers. That will be an hour+ trip for him, depending on where the dealer is located.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

RE: The reason is .................., posted on July 8, 2020 at 09:28:06
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3365
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 My "guess" (and it's just that) is a high percentage of their core customer base is perfectly happy with the stock version. A smaller percentage will choose to modify or seek out a Danny Richie, Bob Crites, etc. Skilled DIY guys like yourself will choose their own path. Then there are those who simply want something more refined with no hassle from the start. They'll probably be looking at something from Volti.

 

RE: The reason is .................., posted on July 8, 2020 at 10:07:08
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18286
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 Yup, and also because they sell a boat load of them, they are more likely to find a percentage of Modifiers in that group also. And since that model has been around for 50 years, some have worn out and need modifying.
Whereas comparing a pair of $50 Grand Speakers that haven't been around for that long is ridiculous.



 

RE: The reason is .................., posted on July 8, 2020 at 10:35:38
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2382
Joined: September 27, 2004
 > Whereas comparing a pair of $50 Grand Speakers that haven't been around for that long is ridiculous.

Avantgardes have been around for 25 years in various versions at prices from around that of the top Klipsch, but I can find not a single mod described on Youtube. Nothing to do with longevity or price - everything to do with getting it right (or wrong) in the first place.

 

RE: The reason is .................., posted on July 8, 2020 at 11:29:43
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18286
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 AGs have sold a minuscule amount of speakers compared to Klipsch. They were NOT mass Marketed. And that is the Reason.



 

RE: Finally, on Monday..., posted on July 15, 2020 at 01:09:31
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 I really can't believe every Klipsch post has to end up like this...
seriously, the new Cornwalls (the IV, thus) are as similar to the 1 (or even the III) as a 2020 Corvette would be to a 1960's Stingray. THERE IS JUST NO REASON THE 2020 MODEL WOULDN'T STICK TO THE ROAD BETTER THAN THE ONE FROM THE SIXTIES.

So there is NO REASON to believe that the IV, with basically everything changed besides the bass driver, would sound anywhere like the older models!!! and as a matter of fact IT DOESNT.

If anyone is interested in this post beyond the usual "I would never spend money on a Klipsch speaker", I can only say one thing: go and have a listen. You will be shocked! I had an extensive, long listening session, and I LOVED them - and that is coming from a guy who used to have LaScala (old ones) and modded them so much there is actually NOTHING left of them!

 

Glad for you ! ..............., posted on July 15, 2020 at 15:47:57
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18286
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 And if you are buying them, $6 Grand is no small chunk of change, so they should be very good.





 

RE: Glad for you ! ..............., posted on July 19, 2020 at 22:43:11
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
 I'm not buying them, my DIY horn system does everything as good or better (at the cost of being tri-amped, and a nightmare to properly set-up, whereas the Cornwalls are really an easy to live, turn-key speaker) but my friend is a potential buyer. They are even more expensive here in Europe tho, so a second listening session with my friend's amp and records might take place in the near future.
We were both impressed!

 

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