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Long time! Major System update

104.175.171.143

Posted on April 7, 2020 at 09:18:51

eso
Manufacturer

Posts: 7843
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
Joined: March 15, 2001

I haven't been around here much, but it's good to see there are still some of the old denizens still population the place.

In little chunks of time carved out of my life over the past several years I've been working on completing the loft. The old system sounded awesome as many who heard it would attest, but the space was rough and unfinished and it all looked kludged together.

Starting with installing new insulated glass casement windows, and then irregular diffuser-like millwork and the back wall and for CD storage over the built-in record cases the room started to finish out nicely.

From my work with Rich Drysdale and Steve Schell I was able to come up with a set of their Cogent field coil drivers. But to get them into the space I had to demo the original Cement mouths of my built-in bass horns and reconfigure the mouth fold to give a bit more depth to the space.

The new bass horn mouths and all to the other millwork for the windows and wall treatments are made from a Brazilian hardwood called garapa. This wood was culled out of material for a custom home I built in Malibu...

With all of the irregular wood work the reverb time in the room is very short, <300msec for a 70db decay. So the room is very quiet and clear sounding and a bit on the bright side. The plan is to selectively add a bit of damping to fine tune the room tone. Having already addressed the reflections I'm not going to be fighting any room modes, only the "color" of the sound.

I'm still working out a few details before I tear the speakers back down for the metal finishing on the racks and finishing the horns and tweeter fairings. But sound wise it's pretty spectacular...

eso

They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves." Henry Chinaski

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RE: Long time! Major System update

Todd Krieger

10:28:59 04/17/20

RE: Long time! Major System update

BoydB

18:52:58 04/12/20

RE: Long time! Major System update

eso

19:13:07 04/12/20

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RE: Long time! Major System update

Todd Krieger

10:28:59 04/17/20

RE: Long time! Major System update

BoydB

18:52:58 04/12/20

RE: Long time! Major System update

eso

19:13:07 04/12/20

RE: Long time! Major System update

BoydB

06:08:13 04/13/20

Wow, really nice! Nt.

Cougar

18:45:28 04/12/20

Its probably been a decade since I got a chance to hear the original setup glad you brought your vocation ski

Edp

14:22:56 04/12/20

RE: Its probably been a decade since I got a chance to hear the original setup glad you brought your vocation ski

eso

16:55:56 04/12/20

Yes still making monkey coffins in same place

Edp

10:09:05 04/17/20

RE: WOW! Nice! nt

bean

12:37:27 04/08/20

Right? Especially those Cogent drivers. Great work! nt

jusbe

01:57:07 04/09/20

RE: Long time! Major System update

gonefishin

06:25:59 04/08/20

RE: Beautiful Work!

Paul Eizik

16:24:43 04/07/20

RE: Beautiful Work!

eso

18:12:29 04/07/20

RE: Beautiful Work!

Paul Eizik

19:22:19 04/07/20

RE: Long time! Major System update

Tom Brennan

09:43:00 04/07/20

eso

09:45:37 04/07/20

RE: What's up Tom!

Tom Brennan

10:48:31 04/07/20

RE: What's up Tom!

eso

11:43:24 04/07/20

RE: What's up Tom!

Don Reid

13:12:24 04/07/20

eso

13:57:01 04/07/20

Don Reid

11:53:08 04/08/20

eso

12:21:31 04/08/20

Don Reid

13:54:15 04/09/20

eso

14:06:37 04/09/20

RE: Long time! Major System update, posted on April 7, 2020 at 09:43:00
Tom Brennan Audiophile Posts: 5854 Joined: January 2, 2000	Nice.

What's up Tom!, posted on April 7, 2020 at 09:45:37
eso Manufacturer Posts: 7843 Location: Long Beach, CA, USA Joined: March 15, 2001	It seemed like you were absent from this place for a while. Good to see you back. eso They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves." Henry Chinaski

RE: What's up Tom!, posted on April 7, 2020 at 10:48:31
Tom Brennan Audiophile Posts: 5854 Joined: January 2, 2000	I'm no longer a horny. My wife and I bought a motorhome and we live in it and travel around (well not now; we're chilling in an RV park in San Antonio where we keep a lot year round). My hi fi now consists of several sets of headphones. My big thing now is our recumbent tadpole trikes on which I installed Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid drive motors.

RE: What's up Tom!, posted on April 7, 2020 at 11:43:24
eso Manufacturer Posts: 7843 Location: Long Beach, CA, USA Joined: March 15, 2001	Great, livin' a nice retirement and staying active. I would probably take that over horns too. I don't have to make that choice yet. My boys are now 11 & 13, so I don't even get to think about retirement for another 10 years... They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves." Henry Chinaski

RE: What's up Tom!, posted on April 7, 2020 at 13:12:24
Don Reid Audiophile Posts: 890 Location: Rural NW Georgia Joined: February 2, 2001 Contributor Since: April 1, 2010	I, a fellow horn lover, am dazzled by the quality and beauty of your workmanship. What are the nominal frequency ranges of the various horns. I dream of an America where a chicken can cross the road without having it's motives questioned.

RE: horns, posted on April 7, 2020 at 13:57:01

eso
Manufacturer

Posts: 7843
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
Joined: March 15, 2001

Steve Schell designed the crossover circuit, and I don't know the exact points. Based on the values I believe the midbass/midrange is around 400 Hz +/- and the tweeter is about 10K Hz.

The mid bass runs down to 85-90Hz quite well and rolls off below that.

We got these massive 8mH inductors that we wind for minimum insertion loss. These are 10ga with a dcr of like .3 Ohms.

I've currently got a charge coupled circuit breadboarded and I'm tweaking values a bit. Right now international shipping is moving really slowly, but I've got a batch Russian Mil-spec PIO caps enroute from Bulgaria to try too.

They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves." Henry Chinaski

RE: Beautiful Work!, posted on April 7, 2020 at 16:24:43
Paul Eizik Audiophile Posts: 2120 Joined: September 15, 2001	eso It's good to see that the California horn crew is still at it! The input by you, Steve Schell and Rich Drysdale has been missed on this forum. I hope that Dr. Bruce Edgar is doing well too, for many of us he is the father of modern DIY horn design. Paul

RE: Beautiful Work!, posted on April 7, 2020 at 18:12:29
eso Manufacturer Posts: 7843 Location: Long Beach, CA, USA Joined: March 15, 2001	Paul! How are you doing? Do you still have the dipole setup? Honestly, I haven't talked to Bruce in quite a while, between keeping the mortgage paid and raising the boys with my wife it's not so easy to make time to visit as much I once did. They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves." Henry Chinaski

RE: Beautiful Work!, posted on April 7, 2020 at 19:22:19

Paul Eizik
Audiophile

Posts: 2120
Joined: September 15, 2001

eso

It's more like the dipole horns still have me! We had a roof put on our 1890's house in the Fall which just beat the snow season here barely. In the rainy Spring meantime I will continue my DIY re-roof on our garage (which was formerly a barn which housed the original owners horse drawn milk delivery wagon) and which serves as my workshop. Having a shop which doesn't rain inside is quite an advantage I can tell you, as well as having a band saw which they still make parts for. I have to confess that just thinking about previous pics of your shop provokes feelings of jealousy in me. Best wishes to you and your family in these times! Our daughter and her husband and grandkids live in California, but both adults work in health care so they are quite involved in the present crisis.

Paul

RE: Long time! Major System update, posted on April 8, 2020 at 06:25:59
gonefishin Audiophile Posts: 1067 Location: Joliet,Ill. Joined: August 27, 2000	Beautiful evolution, nicely done! enjoy the music!

RE: horns, posted on April 8, 2020 at 11:53:08
Don Reid Audiophile Posts: 890 Location: Rural NW Georgia Joined: February 2, 2001 Contributor Since: April 1, 2010	What speakers provide the low bass? I dream of an America where a chicken can cross the road without having it's motives questioned.

RE: horns, posted on April 8, 2020 at 12:21:31

eso
Manufacturer

Posts: 7843
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
Joined: March 15, 2001

That bunch of funny shaped wood behind the main array is the reconfigured mouths of the built-in folded 30Hz bass horns.

The back chambers and throats of the bass horns are all cement. The old mouths of the horns were cement too. The wood the new mouths are made from has a specific gravity of .79 (White Oak has an SG of .77) so they are still plenty hard.

They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves." Henry Chinaski

RE: WOW! Nice! nt, posted on April 8, 2020 at 12:37:27
bean	z

Right? Especially those Cogent drivers. Great work! nt, posted on April 9, 2020 at 01:57:07
jusbe Audiophile Posts: 5950 Location: North Island Joined: April 4, 2000	Big J "... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal* salvation is a contradiction in terms."*

RE: horns, posted on April 9, 2020 at 13:54:15
Don Reid Audiophile Posts: 890 Location: Rural NW Georgia Joined: February 2, 2001 Contributor Since: April 1, 2010	Eso, I am truly impressed by the visual feast your system presents, but how does it sound? I dream of an America where a chicken can cross the road without having it's motives questioned.

RE: horns, posted on April 9, 2020 at 14:06:37

eso
Manufacturer

Posts: 7843
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
Joined: March 15, 2001

It sounds like music, floating in the room, a room with all of this crazy stuff just sitting there taking up space.

The old system in here was very similar to Edgarhorn Titans, but all of my own design and construction. This is a whole different league.

I'm still fine tuning. The current crossover is using charge coupled capacitors and detail is wonderful. I've got a bunch of Russian military PIO caps on the way from Bulgaria to try out. I'm also looking at changing my bass drivers and I'm going to start working with an active PLLXO for the woofers.

All of that is splitting hairs and way into the realm of diminishing returns. It plays music very well and I can listen to it for hours at any level and be really happy with it.
They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves." Henry Chinaski

Its probably been a decade since I got a chance to hear the original setup glad you brought your vocation ski, posted on April 12, 2020 at 14:22:56

Edp
Audiophile

Posts: 4503
Joined: September 23, 1999

Vocational skill to your past time

Although the woodworking most likely has a sonic effect it clearly has a visual effect due to your skills

Must have been a "damn!" Moment when you convinced yourself to demo the original concrete.

Was a pleasure to see your post moniker after a good number of years for both of us

RE: Its probably been a decade since I got a chance to hear the original setup glad you brought your vocation ski, posted on April 12, 2020 at 16:55:56

eso
Manufacturer

Posts: 7843
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
Joined: March 15, 2001

Ed P! How are you doing? weren't you in Sierra Madre area? or was it Alta Dena?

Much fun was had demoing the cement and many oaths were uttered...

All of the irregular surfaces in the wood work were planned to break up reflections. As a result, the room is bright, but really quiet and really clear sounding. I will probably do a bit more damping once I have the speaker set up to where I feel it's complete.

Any new audio projects in your world?

They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves." Henry Chinaski

Wow, really nice! Nt., posted on April 12, 2020 at 18:45:28
Cougar Audiophile Posts: 4592 Location: SoCal Joined: June 25, 2001	Nt.

RE: Long time! Major System update, posted on April 12, 2020 at 18:52:58
BoydB Audiophile Posts: 55 Location: Arizona Joined: August 6, 2005	Eric, That's quite a transformation to your loft. Your horns look awesome and I'm sure they sound mighty fine! Hope your are able to enjoy with Rich and Steve, being in the neighborhood. Boyd

RE: Long time! Major System update, posted on April 12, 2020 at 19:13:07

eso
Manufacturer

Posts: 7843
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
Joined: March 15, 2001

Boyd! Haven't seen your moniker in ages. Do you still have all of your set ups? I had a great time when Steve, Rich and I took the road trip out to your place to mingle with the Arizona Horn & Tube squad.

It took me a few years to do the work up there. Luckily I got it all up and sounding really nice before the pandemic lock down.

Rich and I are working on making some 16" tone arms. I've made a couple turntables and now playing with arms.

Hope you're well!

They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves." Henry Chinaski

RE: Long time! Major System update, posted on April 13, 2020 at 06:08:13
BoydB Audiophile Posts: 55 Location: Arizona Joined: August 6, 2005	At my place in Arizona I still have the smaller room setup with the wall-mounted Altec 815a's. I've become a snowbird and my focus has been on completing even larger installs in my newly built home on a rural Missouri farm. I'd love to hear your setup, I have not been to SoCal in years... maybe that will change. Boyd

Yes still making monkey coffins in same place, posted on April 17, 2020 at 10:09:05

Edp
Audiophile

Posts: 4503
Joined: September 23, 1999

Never upgraded shop tools to tackle horn construction

Needed larger table saw ,planner, work surfaces and longer n stronger clamps. You know. $$$

So now I'm on a "how small can I go" binge since retired last 3 years. Not portable bluetooth type stuff but how small but sound that is still "big full bodied with ease" in their presentation

So still dabbling up here, but not on scale and skill of your creations

Stay safe Stay well and do bit more Stay Up The Stairs listening

RE: Long time! Major System update, posted on April 17, 2020 at 10:28:59
Todd Krieger Audiophile Posts: 37333 Location: SW United States Joined: November 2, 2000	Eric, I remember listening to the "top" system you had roughly 15 years ago..... It's a very interesting progression to your current horn system...... Looks sweet.

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