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CD PLAYER ERRORS

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Posted on April 1, 2021 at 09:11:32
halfnote
Audiophile

Posts: 2543
Location: Research Triangle, NC
Joined: December 6, 2004
CD PLAYER ERRORS

Have a Levinson CD PROCESSOR 39, with upsampling upgrade.

With certain discs, the unit freezes. I may get a NO DISC message. I may get STOPPING message during the read phase. Once or twice, I've gotten a ERROR=7 message.

Sometimes, the unit will not expel the disc, and will lock up. To cure this, I turn the unit off, and then hit the unload button as the unit powers on. This ejects the disc before the reading process initiates.

Yet, most discs play flawlessly. There is no degredation in sound at all.

Is it possible that this is a mechanical problem? Perhaps a laser beginning to fail?

The unit is close to 25 years old. Yet, it has been very lightly used.

I have heard that new CD's are copy-protected in a way that can cause this kind of problem.

And the problem does seem to occur fairly predictably with certain discs, particularly with those purchased recently.

I do recall one or two discs giving me the same kind of problem years ago, but even then, it seemed specific to those discs. All the rest of my discs worked just fine.

I have an OPPO UDP 205, which plays even the problem discs without any difficulty.

Anyone have a similar problem? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

 

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RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on April 1, 2021 at 09:30:47
pbarach
Audiophile

Posts: 3307
Location: Ohio
Joined: June 22, 2008
I have a couple of older players (Marantz, Denon) that balk at black CD-Rs but play everything else; the black discs are not an issue on my Oppo 103. All of these players handle new and old commercial CD's without an issue, and I haven't heard of any new CD copy protection schemes.

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on April 1, 2021 at 11:43:39
halfnote
Audiophile

Posts: 2543
Location: Research Triangle, NC
Joined: December 6, 2004
I hadn't heard of any either. But, when I started to have some of the loading errors, and snooped around the web a bit, the topic came up.

Supposedly, the disc mounting instructions on these newer CD's has been altered, to make it difficult to rip the CD without special tools. (I invite anyone with better technical knowledge than I -- not a high bar -- to clarify this.)

Interestingly, once this kind of copy protection is applied, the disc can no longer display the COMPACT DISC AUDIO logo that appears on older redbook CD's.

I noticed that a lot of my new CD's do NOT have the logo, even if they are re-releases of older material, and that older CD's generally DO have the logo. My older CD's, so far as I have tested this thesis, cue right up and play.

Of course, it would be welcome news if these loading errors were NOT the result of a mechanicial issue.

 

CD Errors, posted on April 1, 2021 at 23:47:55
Daveslater
Audiophile

Posts: 1044
Location: UK
Joined: June 11, 2003
Usually means the laser mechanism is on the way out and may need either realigning or more likely replacing

 

RE: CD Errors, posted on April 2, 2021 at 06:48:44
halfnote
Audiophile

Posts: 2543
Location: Research Triangle, NC
Joined: December 6, 2004
True enough, Dave. The laser mechanism may be to be addressed somehow.

But the curious thing is that these error occur fairly reliably with certain disks, and not at all with others.

More puzzling is that sometimes, the discs actually do play in the No. 39.

I have two other players, an SCD-1 and an Oppo UDP 205, and neither of these seems to have trouble with the "problem" disks.

 

RE: CD Errors, posted on April 6, 2021 at 17:20:56
flood2
Audiophile

Posts: 2558
Joined: January 11, 2011
I have had similar problems in the past with what was a fairly new CD player at the time so it isn't just the laser power although that adds to the problem over time. The answer is that it is a combination of laser alignment, received signal output level and disc reflectance/errors which is why specific discs may cause problems and others don't. If the TOC can't be read properly, then the disc is rejected. The fact that the discs are sometimes read and sometimes rejected suggests that the reflected signal level is marginal. A new laser (which is basically the whole optical assembly) would likely solve the problem - it certainly did for me in my Sony Discman. Laser assemblies are fairly inexpensive to buy.

Regards Anthony

"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on April 18, 2021 at 16:43:38
stator_99@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 527
Location: ohio
Joined: August 24, 2003
I had the same type of problem with my Marantz SA-10, sitting the player on a 4 inch thick maple cutting board completely solved the problem

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on April 20, 2021 at 13:01:02
halfnote
Audiophile

Posts: 2543
Location: Research Triangle, NC
Joined: December 6, 2004
So your conclusion is that vibration control might be the solution?

My system is pretty solid, physically. And I have two other players on the same rack that do not exhibit the issue I am referring to.

I did get some confirmation from Levinson that newer copy-protected CD's (which are not Redbook compliant, per se) sometimes create these kinds of errors on older equipment.

I have also heard that it could due to wear the optical mechanism, or even dirt.

What is odd is that most discs play just fine, with no reading errors or NO DISK messages, while certain disks, generally, but no always, those of later vintage, seem to create problems.

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on April 22, 2021 at 20:07:38
stator_99@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 527
Location: ohio
Joined: August 24, 2003
I am saying that is what worked for me.
I had my player on a Symposium Acoustics ultra stealth edition platform with roller blocks with the super ball upgrade,also had a VPI magic brick on top for mass loading , a few folks felt the laser mechanism was going bad and I was actually getting ready to box it up and send it to Marantz for warranty repair when I noticed the maple butcher block laying there and thought it was worth a shot and to my utter amazement it cured everything.
I mentioned on a previous post that it was 4 inches thick, it is actually 3 inches thick.

 

RE: CD Errors, posted on April 22, 2021 at 21:01:43
'neither of these seems to have trouble with the "problem" disks'

probably because they're only 'somewhat' problem discs

you mentioned an upsampling upgrade on a 25 year old player?

I'm betting a bad laser mated to older upsampling read ahead error correction farts, I mean firmware, are at the heart of the problem ...

addressing the laser reading mechanism should be your best and cheapest bet

I say this from past reading on various forums describing the experience you're having

good luck!

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on April 22, 2021 at 21:38:43
KanedaK
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Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
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As far as I know, some discs are more difficult to read than others (centering?), and those are the ones that repeatedly create issues when the laser starts to fail.

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on July 21, 2021 at 00:28:01
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
Did you have the ML serviced?

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on July 21, 2021 at 05:52:44
halfnote
Audiophile

Posts: 2543
Location: Research Triangle, NC
Joined: December 6, 2004
It is currently being serviced as United Radio in East Syracuse. They were recommended my Levinson. I have heard that Levinson's entire inventory of legacy OEM parts is in custody of United Radio.

I had held to the theory that the reading errors I was getting were the result of newly manufactured CD's, which do not fully comply with the original redbook standard. A tech support rep at Levinson informed me that this is a known issue -- one they have heard about from many legacy CD player owners. Yet, another tech rep at Levinson on a different phone call encouraged me to get the unit looked at. As I said in earlier posts on this matter, the unit sounds as good as ever, when it successfully reads a disk.

It locks up during the initial read process on certain CD (generally newer ones). Sometimes I get an ERROR 5 message, or a NO DISK message, or even, rarely, and ERROR 7 message.

But the unit generally plays other CD's without difficulty, only rarely failing to load them.

I decided to conduct an experiment. I took a stack of CD, old redbook ones and new non-redbook compliant CD's, and began feeding them, one after another, into my machine to see what would happen. Lo and behond, even the redbook CD's had some loading issues. That convinced me to get the unit serviced.

Replacement parts are becoming rare in some instances. The prospect of being unable to service the unit at all, and owning a $6K paperweight gave me a sense of urgency.

However, though some random parts are in short supply, many are still available, according the United Radio. I was told that the high cost of the Levinson units and, therefore, the limited number of units that were sold, means that the original stock of OEM spare parts is consumed at a considerably slower rate than other units with higher productions. Who knows.

So, two weeks ago, I packed up my unit carefully, and sent it to United Radio. Since I am the East Coast, I used the East Syracuse location in New York.

Once I get the unit back, I will post here to let you know the final outcome. At this point, the unit is being evaluated. I expect to hear from them any day now.

Feel free to jog me with another post if I get distracted.

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on July 21, 2021 at 19:44:45
fantja
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Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
Excellent! halfnote.
Thank You for the update. United Radio has an outstanding reputation.

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on July 23, 2021 at 05:50:33
halfnote
Audiophile

Posts: 2543
Location: Research Triangle, NC
Joined: December 6, 2004
Just received a note today from United Radio. Parts required to repair my unit are not in stock, and so have been ordered. Should take a week to 10 days to arrive.

I'll post whenever I have anything to report.

BTW, are you having similar issues with your unit? Is your unit a 39/39s/390s?

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on July 25, 2021 at 03:27:22
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
Thank You for the follow up on parts.
No. I am not a ML owner. I would like to add the No. 512 universal spinner to my collection.

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on July 25, 2021 at 09:36:28
halfnote
Audiophile

Posts: 2543
Location: Research Triangle, NC
Joined: December 6, 2004
Levinson customer support might have some insight on the availability of parts for the 512. You might get this information from United Radio as well. Might be worth a phone call or two before you plunk down.

Again, I will bounce back when I have news on my 39S.

 

RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on August 13, 2021 at 06:18:32
halfnote
Audiophile

Posts: 2543
Location: Research Triangle, NC
Joined: December 6, 2004
Here's how it went with UNITED RADIO.

After the bad disk and loading errors I was getting, I finally decided to bite the bullet and send the unit in for repairs.

I was told United Radio was one of the few places Levinson endorsed in the country, and the only one on the East Coast. I was also told, I think by a Levinson rep, that much of their own OEM parts were inventoried at United Radio.

It seemed like United was the way to go.

I contacted them and received instructions. I downloaded a couple of forms to include with the unit, basically, just contact information and a description of the problem.

I packed up the unit in its original boxes. I enclosed the forms with additional instructions to preserve to original packaging, and to let me know what additional return shipping charges might apply if I wanted my packaging encased in an additional outer box (the original packaging is a double carton, but, over time, the carboard had gotten a bit stiff and friable.

I shipped via UPS. I instructed UPS to reinforce with original packaging with extra exterior cardboard pieces, which they were happy to do for a nominal fee -- a few bucks extra. However, I was not able to actually see what had been done when the unit shipped, since they couldn't perform the modifications on the spot.

Communication with United was excellent, all via telephone, from Peggy, though the repair process proceeded at a snail's pace.

I got confirmation of delivery.

I received another call to explain the diagnostic fee, and collect my credit card number.

I got confirmation that the unit was now in diagnostics a few days later.

After a few days more, I received a call to inform me that the technician could not reproduce my loading issue. This was quite surprising.

I offered to send in a few of the offending disks. I realize now that this step would have been silly. But Peggy said she would relay it to the technician.

After a few more days, I received a call with an estimate for the repairs. I guess the technician had found a way to duplicate my problem. Perhaps he simply didn't test the system enough times at first. The unit might load correctly for 5 or 6 disks at a time before the problem cropped up. Fair enough. But I did explain this in my original problem description form.

Anyway, I was given a price, $1600 or so, for a new laser pick-up and to replace a couple of faulty capacitors. Not unreasonable. But not cheap. No matter, the unit retailed for $6K back in the 1990's, and I was not about the allow it turn into a 30 pound door-stop.

Then, I was told that United Radio would need to order these parts. A suprise, too, based on what I had been told earlier. But not a big deal. I did, however, ask if the parts being used were original OEM parts, and was assured they were. Peggy explained that the high price of the unit, and its relatively limited production run, meant that parts even for "vintage" machines were generally available even after a considerable time. [This was NOT the case with my Sony SCD 1, however. It works just fine, but I have read that many replacement parts are no long available.]

Again, after a few days, I received a call informing me that the unit was being repaired, and that the next notice I would receive would be by email, and that it would either tell me that they unit was ready to ship, or that it had already been shipped. Puzzling. But again, of not particular consequence.

Overall, I would guess that the unit was there 5 weeks or so. Slow. But then, I was happy to let them take all the time they needed.

A couple of days later -- now a few days ago -- the email appeared, notifying me that the unit had shipped, along with a tracking number. The unit is scheduled to arrive today, before 7:00 pm.

I have not tested the unit yet. But I will say the unit was packed up impeccably. The original carton-within-a-carton was placed within a 3rd carton, and taped up very securely with extra-thick clear shipping tape.

I am not sure who deserved the kudos for the fine packing job, since I didn't actually see the unit ship from UPS. But there so much tape on the added outer box that it might have been taped twice, once by UPS, and then again by United Radio. Or it might have been taped up ONCE by United. In either case, all of the original packing was returned in excellent condition.

It takes a little free time to set up the unit in my system again. I will be testing it over the next few days.

I will send you a final installment after I do.

 

FANTJA ... RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on August 13, 2021 at 07:15:42
halfnote
Audiophile

Posts: 2543
Location: Research Triangle, NC
Joined: December 6, 2004
See my most recent post below. I should have appended it to YOUR comment, and instead I mistakenly posted it my OWN, which means you won't get an email alert, which explains why I am including this note.

 

RE: FANTJA ... RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS, posted on August 13, 2021 at 23:47:18
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
Thank You for the update- halfnote.
Good to read that Customer Service is still alive in 2021.

 

RE: FANTJA ... RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS ... FINAL COMMENT, posted on August 20, 2021 at 18:13:35
halfnote
Audiophile

Posts: 2543
Location: Research Triangle, NC
Joined: December 6, 2004
Well, I have had the opportunity to feed my NO. 39S several disks, in particular some of the more recently manufactured ones which supposedly cause loading/reading issues on "classic" players, due, they say, to a relaxation of Redbook specifications.

Everything works flawlessly. Loads and reads are quick and crisp. No hesitation. No delays. No recycling. No freeze ups. No need to reboot.

United Radio replace the laser pick-up and re-aligned the unit, and replaced a few capacitors to boot.

Sounds as good as ever.

Good luck in your quest for a No. 512. Let me know how it goes.

Sounds a good as ever.



 

RE: FANTJA ... RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS ... FINAL COMMENT, posted on August 23, 2021 at 01:01:09
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
Excellent! Halfnote.
there is plenty of life in these CD players.

 

RE: FANTJA ... RE: CD PLAYER ERRORS ... FINAL COMMENT, posted on August 23, 2021 at 01:02:23
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
Excellent! Halfnote

there is plenty of life in these classic CD players.

 

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