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Qobuz downloads are a pain in the...

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Posted on October 22, 2020 at 04:28:39
tketcham
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Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA
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  Since: October 1, 2005
 I may be in the minority but I'm finding that purchasing digital music albums from Qobuz is a pain...

The track file naming convention is such that you have to edit them to eliminate the leading "1-", add a leading zero to the first nine tracks, eliminate the band/artist name, and eliminate the trailing "_6" or "_7". I use "Bulk Rename Utility" and "MP3tag" applications which make it easier than doing it manually but it's still a bunch of unnecessary work.

The formatting for U.S.A. uses dashes to indicate spaces in the title so if a dash is part of the title, you end up not knowing which dash might actually be a dash.

The album cover images are incorrectly identified as PNG format and have to be renamed to .JPG to be correctly identified.

You can't specify your own download parent folder and all download album folders/files end up in a default "Qobuz" folder. I then have to move all the albums to where I want them to reside.

If you log out of the Qobuz application on a PC/laptop the app deletes not just the import folder but the download folder as well. I just had to re-download eight albums worth of music.

I'm not sure if this is unique to Qobuz but "(live)" is added to the track titles on a live album (WTF?) and I have to eliminate the unnecessary metadata.

Compared to the other hi-res download sites I purchase from, Qobuz is a pain in the...

Tom

Edited: I'm sure there are reasons why Qobuz formats their download files and metadata the way they do, but with modern operating systems and software able to accommodate blanks, and prefix zeros typically being used in file names for tracks 1 - 9, I do wonder what they are.

 

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RE: Qobuz downloads are a pain in the..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 06:33:09
John Elison
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Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
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  Since: January 29, 2004
 That's good to know! Thanks!

I subscribe to QOBUZ but I've never tried downloading anything. I don't really intend to download anything because that's the reason I subscribed. I can stream anything they have to offer so why download it. I guess you can go to other sites when you want to buy an album. Anyway, thanks for the heads-up! I'll never try downloading anything for QOBUZ.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: Qobuz downloads are a pain in the..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 07:21:40
tketcham
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Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA
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  Since: October 1, 2005
 I'm whining, I know, but I like to keep an orderly digital music library so that the BluOS controller I use works without glitches due to inconsistent file names, IDtags, and cover images. I've purchased downloads from half a dozen other retailers and Qobuz uses "unique" file naming and metadata formats. Must be a European thing. :-)

I could just avoid Qobuz but they have one of the best selections of digital music albums around, albums I can't find elsewhere. It's not all hi-res 24 bit but 16/44.1 stuff can be quite good if the recording, mixing, and mastering was done right.

Tom

 

You said it..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 07:30:12
STEVE H
Audiophile

Posts: 626
Location: California
Joined: December 15, 2000
 Yep. I downloaded my first album from Qobuz last weekend, Eagles-Live At The Forum. What a MAJOR PAIN. Never again. All the added track naming BS.
I'll stick to HD Tracks if I want to download any hi-rez.

 

RE: Qobuz downloads are a pain in the..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 07:48:08
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
Location: USA
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  Since: February 2, 2002
 Good to know. Thanks.

I subscribe to Qobuz for streaming only and have never purchased a download from them.

However, most streaming services including Qobuz have an "offline mode" feature. This allows you to download music to your phone or tablet while at home on WiFi so you're not burning through your cellular data plan while portable and traveling. Since your music now resides on the phone you're not using the cellular data network. This is beneficial even if you have an unlimited data plan as the music continues to play w/o issue if you get into a cellular dead spot. I have several custom playlists from my Qobuz account downloaded to my iPhone.

Downloading from HDTracks used to be a royal pain with their home grown Java based download manager. It was a very frustrating piece of junk. Fortunately, they fixed that a few years ago (through a partnership) and it's very good now.





 

RE: Qobuz downloads are a pain in the..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 08:24:46
tketcham
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 I buy more downloads from HDtracks than anywhere else. It's simple and they keep metadata to a minimum. I wish they had access to more music. I've noticed that Qobuz offers downloads to purchase, especially CD sourced, that you can't find anywhere else. I wonder what kind of rights Qobuz might have that HDtracks and others don't?

Tom

 

RE: You said it..., posted on October 22, 2020 at 08:34:43
tketcham
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  Since: October 1, 2005
 I didn't think I was the only one. :-)

Tom

 

Sorry Tom but little of what you say is correct.., posted on October 22, 2020 at 10:33:51
PAR
Audiophile

Posts: 1732
Location: South London, UK
Joined: June 4, 2019
 ...Unless Qobuz USA has a different download MO to us in Europe.

1. That extra 1 is part of standard ID3 metadata and indicates it is disc 1 of 1 ( or you may see a 2 for disc 2 of 2). I have no idea why you need to eliminate artist names etc.

2. I have no idea of what you 6" or 7" are. I have not seen this.

3. Album covers are normally JPEG. But note Qobuz does not provide the cover image. AFAIK it is supplied by the record label. So if the label has sent it as a PNG I expect that is what is used.

4. You select the folder used for downloads in your account.

5. When you log out of Qobuz as the download folder location is held in your account it is saved. Or you can (as I do) select the folder using your browser's download manager just like most other downloads. Doing this of course you can save your default download folder in the browser's configuration.

I am going to include a couple of screenshots. These are of a totally unedited Qobuz download. The first is of the album file ( note track #), the second is an opened ID3 file for track one (note JPEG artwork and 1/1)and the third is how it appears in one view in my player.NB: if you see missing data in that last image that you would like to see in the player view that is down to my configuration of MinimServer, not Qobuz.


























"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams

 

RE: I beg to differ., posted on October 22, 2020 at 15:50:53
tketcham
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Posts: 6701
Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA
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  Since: October 1, 2005
 It appears that the protocols for Qobuz downloads are somewhat different for the U.S.A. markets. For example, I can choose a drive and folder but it adds a default folder called "Qobuz" in which subsequent downloads are added.

The track numbers 1 through 9 do not include a "0" prefix.

I do not have a subscription to Qobuz, perhaps that is why they delete all contents of the "download" folder if I log out of the Qobuz app.

I'm not so sure about the cover images. Why is it that the wholesalers would send different image files to Qobuz unless that was what is included in their contract agreement?

I don't listen to individual songs, isolated from the album. I listen to albums and already know who the artist is. Besides, including the artist in the file name just makes for very long file names.

I suppose having the disc number imbedded in the filename is useful, but it's not the standard convention here in North America. I can appreciate the additional information, though, and will adopt the format. As I said to Jon E., "It must be a European thing." Which is often the more reasoned approach. :-)

I may post some screen shots to validate my original post.

Regards,
Tom

 

RE: I beg to differ., posted on October 23, 2020 at 03:41:09
PAR
Audiophile

Posts: 1732
Location: South London, UK
Joined: June 4, 2019
 " do not have a subscription to Qobuz, perhaps that is why they delete all contents of the "download" folder if I log out of the Qobuz app"

That sounds about right. You say that you don't have a Qobuz (streaming) subscription. How are you downloading? Are you accessing the downloads via use of the Qobuz browser app for streaming? If so you could also go straight to the Qobuz download store ( I can't give you a link as I am automatically routed to the UK one). You can buy from there and I am sure that you could open an account just for the download store and that might hopefully give you access to a saved download file of your choice. I can't experiment for you to verify this as I already have a streaming account which is also the account for downloading so I am "pre-set" as it were.

" I suppose having the disc number imbedded in the filename is useful, but it's not the standard convention here in North America. I can appreciate the additional information, though, and will adopt the format. As I said to Jon E., "It must be a European thing." Which is often the more reasoned approach. :-)"

If you look closely at the screenshot of the open file that I posted you will see that the track title is actually entered twice. Once with 1/1 and once with no track number, the latter being shown without disc number and contained in an adjacent field. So this is really a question of where your player software is drawing the metadata that it displays from. No player I have used draws the metadata it displays from the file's title layer but from the accompanying ID3 file. Admittedly all of my Qobuz purchases are FLACs.

" I'm not so sure about the cover images. Why is it that the wholesalers would send different image files to Qobuz unless that was what is included in their contract agreement?"

AFAIK all of the metadata is supplied by the record label along with the music file in one or more resolutions. That includes the cover art. Qobuz just accepts what it is sent. I doubt that there are really technical requirements in the agreement at such a detailed level. Currently Qobuz are really beholden to the record label. I have even seen Qobuz reporting problems where even if they have an agreement, the record label is still not sending them stuff. BTW I am sure that there is not a room full of discographers at Qobuz entering metadata or even ripping CDs (as I have seen some people imagine).

I look forward to your screen shots.

Best Wishes

Pete


"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams

 

Qobuz downloads for non-subscribers in the U.S.A., posted on October 23, 2020 at 07:21:00
tketcham
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Posts: 6701
Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA
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  Since: October 1, 2005
 Hi, Pete,

I will attempt to clarify a few things and explain/show some of the differences.

First off, I do have an account (not a subscription) with Qobuz and purchase download albums from this website: Qobuz downloads store. I don't download directly from the website but instead use the Qobuz app on a Win10 laptop.

Secondly, I probably shouldn't have used the term "metadata" in describing the file naming conventions. There may be information embedded in file names (such as disc number) but I'm not sure it's technically metadata. The metadata (IDtags) are farily consistent among the hi-res download sites but it's the file names that I have to edit.

I didn't keep copies of the original downloads and the Qobuz app doesn't appear to offer a way to re-download. So I purchased another CD quality album and captured screen images for comparison to what you get when you download. I've been exploring the music of my teens and young adult life, music that I passed by at the time but am now enjoying for it's unique place in music history. Please don't laugh or smirk when you see what I purchased. ;-)

Here's a capture of the download folder option:



And here's what the Qobuz app defaults to. It doesn't matter which drive or parent folder I choose, Qobuz adds the "Qobuz" folder. That means I have to move every download to the proper parent folder.



Here's a capture of the music files, showing the lack of leading zeros in the file name, the use of dashes as place holders for spaces, and the trailing _6 for CD quality files. (I get a trailing _7 for 24/96 files.) The use of a dash for spaces can be problematic if a song title includes dashes as part of the name, e.g., "Eh-La-Bas" or "7 O'clock News - Silent Night". I don't like the artist name embedded in the track name because it can create very long file names. I can see needing the artist to be included if people don't organize music files by artist/album but instead use folders with isolated songs, but let them have to edit the track names to add the artist.



You're correct about the embedded IDtag images being JPG format but I also use a folder image and have to rename the files. Here's the PNG/JPG error I get using Irfanview. Alternatively I can just "save to Folder.jpg" using Audacity's IDtag editor.



This is the log out message I see. They state that only the imported files are deleted but it also deletes files in the "Qobuz" download folder. What's telling is that while I'm downloading the albums I purchased, the header for the download screen indicates the files are being "imported".



I'll say once more that I'm whining a bit about the file naming convention and having to move the files to their proper location but it's an annoying inconvenience. There are far more important problems in this world than those of a nerdy audiophile.

Best regards,
Toom

 

RE: Qobuz downloads for non-subscribers in the U.S.A., posted on October 23, 2020 at 08:34:05
PAR
Audiophile

Posts: 1732
Location: South London, UK
Joined: June 4, 2019
 O.K I'll think about this further but for the moment:

1. Yes the track title is metadata. Metadata is just data about the object (in this case the music data). The track title identifies the music data.

2. All downloads bought from Qobuz can be re-downloaded e.g. if you corrupt a file. To do this easily:

Go to the Qobuz download store on your computer. Sign in. Click on your name in the top right corner. Then choose " My Profile" and you will see all of your purchased downloads each with a new "Download" button.

3. Yes I can see that your download path is not what you want. When you download from Qobuz you are given two options. One is to the Qobuz app, the other is to your hard disc. The path I can see M:\HR Flac\Qobuz\ suggests that you may be downloading to the app not your hard disc unless ,of course, you have a folder on your hard disc called Qobuz with a subfolder HR Flac? Maybe that is the cause of your difficulties? In contrast I select download to hard disk. That opens my default browser and its download manager with a default path to my C drive and the download folder. I then extract the folder to my Music folder. From there it is copied to my NAS. I have no requirement to do any editing.

It looks like you are using VLC but it must be a decade since I used it so no comment at present.

"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams

 

Also find the renaming a minor chore, but, posted on October 23, 2020 at 08:45:18
E-Stat
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  Since: April 5, 2002
 If you log out of the Qobuz application on a PC/laptop the app deletes not just the import folder but the download folder as well. I just had to re-download eight albums worth of music.

Never experienced this. Following the download, the files are moved from my workstation to the NAS anyway. I merely get a message from the application that the files are now gone. Just moved where they need to be.

Sometimes, they have content HD Tracks does not and are less expensive. I just know I'll need to do some filename editing. ;)

 

RE: Qobuz downloads for non-subscribers in the U.S.A., posted on October 23, 2020 at 09:50:04
tketcham
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Posts: 6701
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  Since: October 1, 2005
 I figured I could go to the Qobuz website, log in, and re-download the album files but I try to work from the Qobuz app on my laptop. Not a big deal.

Using the Qobuz app, there is no option to download album folders and files into an existing folder without Qobuz first creating a subfolder named "Qobuz", no matter where I direct it. So, I end up having to leave the "Qobuz" download folder in a dedicated location and then move all the album folders and files to where I really want them to reside. It's an unnecessary step and only happens with Qobuz.

I may try using the download option on the web site using my browser for comparison. I just prefer to log out after paying, clear the cache, shut the browser down, and use the Qobuz app to manage the download.

VLC is merely a simple way to occasionally listen to digital music files. I don't stream or play music other than with the BluOS app.

 

RE: Qobuz downloads for non-subscribers in the U.S.A., posted on October 23, 2020 at 12:04:40
PAR
Audiophile

Posts: 1732
Location: South London, UK
Joined: June 4, 2019
 " Using the Qobuz app, there is no option to download album folders and files into an existing folder without Qobuz first creating a subfolder named "Qobuz", no matter where I direct it."

You say that you have an account so you should be able to see this:



You can see that although Qobuz shows a pre-set path for imports and downloads next to it is a "browse " option which will open your file tree and allow you to select a different path. However, as I said earlier this is for loading into the app. If instead you choose "Download to Hard Disc" on the purchase page it does not use this path but opens your default browser so you then use the browser's download manager.

"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams

 

RE: Qobuz downloads for non-subscribers in the U.S.A., posted on October 23, 2020 at 18:02:50
tketcham
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Posts: 6701
Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA
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  Since: October 1, 2005
 That's the same page I see in the Qobuz app but if you look at the "Download path" browse option it shows that "Qobuz" is the default folder. And it will be the default folder regardless of which drive/folder you select in the "browse" pop-up window.

I'm good. No worries. I just needed to whine a bit. Thanks.

 

RE: Also find the renaming a minor chore, but, posted on October 23, 2020 at 18:21:22
tketcham
Audiophile

Posts: 6701
Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA
Joined: March 21, 2005
Contributor
  Since: October 1, 2005
 I'm not going to give up on Qobuz; they do offer a lot of music unavailable elsewhere for a good price. I just won't again make the mistake of logging out of the Qobuz app before moving my albums from their proprietary download folder.

Editing file names IS a relatively minor chore but it gets old after a while. Then again, I'm retired; what else have I got to do, right? (Insert winky smirk face here.)

 

Does your Qobuz display show hi-res? I didn't think, posted on October 25, 2020 at 06:59:06
tinear
Audiophile

Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 iPhones did--- unless one had a pay-to-play additional app?

 

Yes, the iPhone plays 'Hi-Res' Qobuz - pics, posted on October 25, 2020 at 19:42:50
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
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  Since: February 2, 2002
 I had all Qobuz settings on the iPhone set to CD quality for several reasons* but just for grins I set it to 24/192 KHz and sure enough, that's what it plays.... but read the notes below. You need an outboard DAC.

Why I choose Qobuz CD Quality vs 'Hi-Res' on my phone:

- CD quality is more than sufficient for me over headphones during air travel or in the car as those are not my main listening modes. I stream 'hi-res' to a network streamer and quality DAC in my main system at home.

- Hi-res streaming consumes lot of bandwidth from my cellular data plan, and offline downloads to the phone take up a lot of space.

Again, I listen at CD quality on the iPhone when I'm not at home. Heck, a lot of my listening is at CD quality anyway even on the main home system.

IMHO, a small insect DAC on a phone playing hi-res will not out perform a quality DAC in a home based system playing at CD quality. I would not use a phone -or- tablet as my main music source in a home based system. There are much better choices for that.



 

RE: Yes, the iPhone plays 'Hi-Res' Qobuz - pics, posted on October 25, 2020 at 20:33:36
rivervalley817
 there was quirky sci-fi show that ran from '91 > '92 called 'Eerie Indiana'

in one episode this fellow has his memories transferred out of his mind to a portable 8 track player / tape .. and the contents of the tape to his mind ... there's a 'gang' of kids [ala S. King] that try to help him

they try talking with him but mostly he keeps saying 'My Shirrona' and I think 'good girls won't' ... anyway, the kids get things squared away, but every time I see My Sharrona I just chuckle inside ... you know, where it counts

sorry to go OT, carry on

 

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